Fat Old Guy

"Does the boy even know how to dress?" This is 2003, the idea of nice pants and a nice shirt are foreign to most kids. At this age, the parents have the responsibility of teaching the kids how to dress. Too many parents will say, "He likes to wear it like that" instead of teaching the kid to dress properly. I was at a wedding and most of the boys in attendance were wearing sport coats or sweaters. One boy was in sweat pants and a t-shirt. Was it that the parents couldn't afford "Sunday go to meetin' clothes" for junior? Nope. Junior refused to wear anything else.

"First a scoutmaster is neither hired, or fired." Gee, do they just walk and take over? hire n : the act of giving someone a job fire Informal. To discharge from a position; dismiss. See synonyms at dismiss. I would argue that the troop committee hires the SM and fires him when necessary. As for ethics, you're right but that isn't always the real world. As I stated before, doing the right thing is often tempered by the need to keep a paycheck coming into the family. The wife and kids aren't going to be very proud of you for standing your ground after you lose the house.

Easy, hard . . . it depends on your perspective. The requirements for the professional circle really don't sound much different than what many folks do for job as a accountant, teacher, programmer, police officer and that is just to stay on top of things not to get an award. Next question, do you have the Professional Circle :-)

Whatever happened to the concept that if a Scout doesn't know what is expected of him, he should ask? They don't hesitate to ask about putting up tents. They don't hesitate to aske about lighting stoves. I rarely hear of one asking for help as Scribe, Historian, QM.

" see it as my way of life. To me Scouting is a Life Style not a Label. When was the last time many of us shook hands on a major deal based on our Honor?" Depends on what you consider major. I signed the contract for my new roof after the job was completed. I do business with my clients without contracts. I say that I'll do the work, they say they'll pay. The only time that I've been burned was dealing with a local governement. Foolish me, I thought that I could trust the government :-(

"Can the SM be directed to sign a requirement he doesn't believe has been met?" Let's change this a bit . . . May the Scoutmaster direct an Instructor to sign off on a Scout when the instructor's opinion is that the requirement hasn't been met? I don't think so. I sure that it happens but it shouldn't. The SM should stand his ground, saying, "You hired me to run the program. If you don't like what I'm doing, fire me." Many of us should do this in our professional lives as well but the pressures of mortgages and car payments make us swallow our ethics.

"I don't think the counselors at summer camps need to be experts." When we register merit badge counselors for troops or districts we expect them to have expertise in the field from work skills, education, or a hobby. Why should summer camp counselors be held to a lower standard.

" I also have to admit that I don't remember them applying to the Cubmaster position. I don't think they did. " According to Mike Walton's usually correct web site, they did exist. http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/trained.htm

Bob, this a trained patch from olden days www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/insignia/bstrain.jpg Can't get it to display the picture :-((This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

I'm not a big fan of merit badges at summer camp with the possible exception of things like the water and field activities (swiming, boating, shooting). What I've observed for things like leatherwork is that the Scouts go and sit for an hour while the counselor shows them pieces of leather, instead of them finding things that are made of leather. Next they hammer their initials into a piece of leather and stain it. Boom! Got one done. Wood carving and basketry are just a bad.

"It was a mass murder, executed by a bunch of cowards who masqueraded on earth as men. The men, women, and children who were killed that day, were NOT combatants." One man's war is another's act of terror. During WW II we firebombed Tokyo, Dresden and other targets, killing many civilians including women and children.

I've read that in olden days the trained patch came off once you earned the "Training Award" for your position. In those days, it would make sense to take the patch off once you earned your beads. However, in these days, the trained patch stays even though the patch should be unnecessary because everyone should be trained. BTW, at one time there was a special mylar Scoutmaster patch to indicate training.

"The generation before us was wraped up in what they had." I don't know about that, the generation before us went en mass to fight despotism around the world. They sacrificed more than we can imagine. Not just their lives but things that we take for granted vanished during the war: sugar, shoes, gasoline. Can you imagine going to the grocery store and being told that you had already bought your allocation of ground beef?

"Can't anyone figure out that the cost of handling that dollar from the Scout to the unit to the council to national far exceeds it's value?" That would be true if each dollar was handled individually. However, there are thousands of Cub Scout to Boy Scout transfers each year. In the aggregrate, it doesn't cost that much to handle the money and National gets more bucks. About 20 years ago I ordered some camera equipment from a mail order company and they overcharged me by $1. I called to complain and the guy gave me a hard time about refunding my buck. I stood my ground and got it back. I later called the BBB to complain and they referred me to the police. It turns out the company was being investigated for fraud because they'd been overcharging everyone by $1 and it was adding up to millions.

"It is the WWII (depression) generation that is motivated by money." I think that the depression generation wasn't motivated by money so much as they were motivated by security: a good job, a nice house, and a safe future. It is the boomers, especially the late boomers, who are the "greed is good" crowd.

Work! The curse of the drinking class.

"I have discussed this with my daughter's high school English teacher." Considering the current state of public education, I'd be hesitant to use her as an authority. The memos that come home from school are some of the most poorly written documents that I've ever read. In a previous life I made money as a writer. I also managed to accumulate 30 credits in writing on my way to a B.S. I can't tell a nominative bi-valve from a dangling ruminant (apologies to Dave Berry) but I can write or so I was told by my editors. What's all that mean? It means that I think that I'm right. :-)

"Have you ever received comments from other than patrol members who thought the name inappropriate?" Why? I thought that it referred to a fishing spot.

"All simple dribble from non-Venturing adult leaders" I'm trying hard to figure out how basketball go involved here. That'd be Varsity Scouts, not Venturing. Right?

"As a value based organization are we in touch with the values of today?" Should we be? Presidents who lie on the stand. 12 year olds getting pregnant. Killing someone is okay if you are depressed and a woman. Cheating is not only expected but accepted.

"I prefer to think of the X-generation not so much as the "what's in it for me" generation as the "What can I do" generation. If we have nothing to contribute to a cause, we're outta there." You're far too kind.

"Two (adult) deep leadership, while it makes sense for all, only applies to Cub Scouts. For Boy Scouts, the main YP rule is no one on one contact with youth (unless it is your son.)" Where is that in writing? I'm looking in the G2SS and it says two deep is required for outings but it doesn't give a guideline for meetings.

"If I'm taking photos of my troop's boy's in action on a camporee or summer camp, " That's a bit different than taking pictures for the Scout Handbook, PL Handbook, SM Handbook, etc.. Considering the expense that goes into these books, they could provide the models with correct uniforms or only use Scouts who are uniformed correctly as models.

"As an example, many times there are not two adults present during travel to OA events." You only need one adult in the car but you do need two Scouts unless the one Scout is your son. Of course this creates problems like we had last week, the Scoutmaster and I were leaving and found one Scout sitting in the parking lot. Mom hadn't shown up and a phone call revealed that she was stuck 20 miles away. Should we call the dad and ask him to drive 15 minutes to our meeting place? Neither the SM nor I had our sons there. What to do? We followed the rules and made the kid walk home.

It's all part of the "pick your battles" mentality and the "if you make a fuss, they'll quit" mentality, which one it is depends on the situation. Of course, we also have the "what does it matter" mentality. Not long ago, I pointed out to a mom that her son was wearing a patch that he shouldn't be wearing. Her response was, "I sewed that thing on so it will stay on." You'd think that BSA would be able to find properly uniformed Scouts for their own publications. Unfortunately, there are no penalties for not doing things the right way. I've been trying to roll proper uniforming into the annual patrol competition. Oh boy! You;d have thought that I had suggested animal sacrifice. "That's not fair to the boys who are coming from baseball games" (Change at the meeting) "That's not fair to the boys who can't find their uniforms" (make them hang it up)