Fat Old Guy

Once again Bob White demonstrates that his Scout Law includes snide.

" It is not an easy process and it applies only to the LDS Church." Why do the Mormons get such special consideration?

"FOG, I thought an astute man of the world like you would recognize dialogue from The Godfather and Godfather II." The closest that I came to seeing the Godfather was reading the Mad Magazine version of it and that was nearly 30 years ago.

"First of all, I would love it if more of our moms would come on a campout. They are a great influence when they come" Most of our Scouts dislike having moms around as do most of the adult men. The Scouts don't like it because the moms can't stop being a mom and run around saying, "Brush your teeth! Go to sleep!" The men don't like it because the womenfolk don't like it when we belch and pass gas after dinner. I don't like it because the moms try to "help" too much and don't understand, "Don't do for a Scout what he can do for himself."

" Institutions are neither godless or moral. They are inanimate." Not really. Institutions are organizations and, as such, are composed of people.

OGE, you lost me completely in that last posting. Are you having a Senior moment?

If you could find a new CO in the other council or get your CO to rent a PO Box, I don't think that any members would have to move. Members aren't restricted by geography to which units they may join.

"We are trying to get all the boys to FC by May." I detect an attitude problem here. You don't need to do anything by May. The Scouts need to try to get to FC, if that's what they want to do. How do they get to First Class? By participating in a program that they've designed with guidance from the Troop Guide. Not long ago, I ran into one of our "Patrol Advisors" at the supermarket, buying "his" patrols food for the upcoming campout. Why? Becuase "the boys won't go shopping." Hey, if they don't want to go shopping, they go hungry. What's this have to do with FC/FY? "Trying to get all of them to FC by May" smack of "Den Leadership." Of the ten Scouts in my son's peer group, only two made FC in one year or less. The others have ranged from 14 months to one guy that might make it in two years. The two fast trackers are the ones who are having the least fun. They're focusing on Eagle Required merit badges. Summer camp is an intense experience for them. The others are focusing on having fun: camping, hiking, canoeing, etc..

" If the BSA made the uniform required, there maybe boys out there that may never get to be a Boy Scout that wanted to be, because the uniform is required and the family has better things to spend the money on." I dunno. Sports teams require uniforms and many poor families find the money for sports.

" Perhaps we could go with European tribes. The New York Berserkers? I bet the Vandals would have some interesting post-game parties. At least the fans would have a good time.." Have we forgotten the Vikings? I haven't met a single person of Scandanavian ancestry who is upset with the depection of the Vikings even though the Vikings didn't have horns on their helmets. Maybe the Scandanavians should protest "Hagar the Horrible." Mabye I should write angry letters every time a black comedian makes fun of white people.

"FOG, you probably have heard this before, but you are wrong, dead wrong First Class First Year is not intended to make advancement easy, show me where in the BSA literature is says that following first class first year is intended to make advancement easy, you cant because its not there" Thery're not going to admit it. Just like you tell you wife that you read Playboy for the articles. Just read the historic literature. It is obvious to anyone who doesn't worship BSA that the the trail to First Class has had most of its obstacles removed. " I don't know what is cause and what is effect here regarding retention, but the idea of really creating a program for new scouts, whatever it may look like had then, and still has, serious merit." Duh! They made it easier to keep boys in the program so they can pay more money to BSA. "How do your troops handle the 4th requirement for FC? being "cheif cook" for their patrol for 3 meals?" He's the cook and cooks all the meals.

"And you dodged mine completly." I learned from you.

The goal of FCFY is to keep Scouts from quitting by making advancement easy. I'd go with the first Scouting year which would be June of the following year. That said, you shouldn't fuss over FCFY. If you have an active program and the boys want to make rank, they can do it in one year. If you start focusing on advancement, you get goofy thinks like "We're going on a nature hike. Look there's a bird. Check it off."

Gee Bob White, "presume"? Aren't the same fellow who slams people for speaking without definate knowledge. It seems that you can't answer my questions so you dodge the issue by trying to redirect it? Answer the question without "presuming" anything, please.

Ya know, if these Injuns were smart, they'd capitalize on the obvious interest in Indians and Indian lore. Instead of complaining, they could work with the groups and help them make their stuff more authentic.

" If the scout sucessfully completes his 6 months of POR, he has to have been active in his troop and patrol." Not really. What if his POR is historian and he's been busy pasting things into scrapbooks but has not attended a single troop meeting, campout, or gone to a patrol meeting?

"They recognize scouts three times for each advancement." Three times?

"however do you know of any chapters of any of the organizations you mentioned who are actually Charter Organizations in the BSA?" A better question is, "have any of chapters of these organizations ever applied to be a Charter Organization and what was the result?"

" I think you must live down about Dante's Level 5 from the way you describe your troop and its parentage." It may well be that. We have too many parents who have "Eagles in their eyes" and are driving their son's Scouting experience to that end.

Bob White stated, "When will we get to earn our scout Badge? (The right answer is , first meeting) Why the first meeting? What if they haven't earned it yet? Do you support just giving them the badge even if they haven't met the requirements?

I'll go with Rooster. College is a time when you get to explore ideas. We used to sit up late at night in my dorm arguing philosophy, religion, politics, drugs, etc.. A very interesting time. I actually became a liberal for a day or two.

Six more units in a month! That will take some work. My district has had considerable luck getting churches to charter their teen groups as Venturing Crews.

R7 Voyageur, based on what Laurie quoted, it sounds as though your Council has set different standards than BSA. Could this be because they are more concerned about advancement and retention than actually producing good Scouts? OGE asked, "So, I guess the follow up question would be, how many months, on the average do your scouts remain at First Class, Star and Life? Is it closer to the minimum or is it varied?" It varies depending on the pushiness of the parents. Without exception, all of our first and second year Scouts who are looking for PORs so they can advance are being pushed by mom or dad. How do I know? Because mom or dad comes and says, "Jimmy needs a POR for advancement" and when Jimmy is asked if he wants a POR he says, "I guess so, my dad says I need it."

"The purpose of this corporation shall be to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in Scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods which are now in common use by Boy Scouts." Based on this statement alone, the KKK, Black Panthers and the IRA would be good Charter Partners.

"An active youth member is one who, with the approval of a parent or guardian if necessary, becomes a member of a unit; obligates himself or herself to attend the meetings regularly; fulfills a member's obligation to the unit;" BSA says you have to attend meetings "regularly" but what is regularly. I'd say at least 3 out of 4. I used to go to church "regularly" which meant at least 50 Sundays a year. Now I go three or four times a year, is that regularly? I regularly go a couple times a year. Similarly, what is a member's obligation to his unit? These requirements are wide open to interpretation. To simplify matters and for fairness, units write their own requirements and no one has presented anything from BSA that says that they cannot.