Fat Old Guy

"Under American Dental Association guidelines the oral surgeon has the right to charge for this" Of course, they'd be idiots to say that they couldn't. Gotta love the way that doctors and lawyers break everything out on their bills. Can you imagine if plumbers did that? Turned off water $25 Looked in sink $25 Sent helper to get wrench $15 Used wrench $20

At the camps that I've been to, the camp staff wears grey/silver loops on both khaki and green shirts because they are Council employees at that point.

"i will admit i do not have as many years on my pack as FOG or OGE," Yep, those of us who are "early dead" are proud of our years. The great thing is that unless something goes drastically wrong for you, you're going to be here some day. ;-) " but as a camp staffer you see alot of boys, and work with alot of them, i also ran part of a camporee , where a compass course, built for the 14 yr olds in my troop, stumped several eagles." Yep. Seen that. I still remember my disbelieve when an Eagle at a Webelos event couldn't show the Webelos how to tie two half hitches. All my life, I had looked at Eagle Scouts as "guys who knew cool stuff. Guy stuff. Knives, knots, fire, first aid. Good stuff." What's the solution? I will never think that the headlong rush toward advancement that I see, usually driven by the parents, is good for Scouting. Is your system good? Mebbe. Is it better? Mebbe. The Girl Scouts highest award cannot be earned until you have stuck with the program well into high school. Is this good? Mebbe, it keeps the Girls who want to earn it in the program. The problem is, your system isn't the system (boy do I sound like someone else?). I may have my complaints about the system and I voice them but I work within them. As much as I'd like to, I won't make a Scout wait until he's earned 2nd Class before he starts working on First Class requirements. I grumble and I write letters. If I was really motivated, I'd keep my mouth shut, play the game and get a seat on a big time committee. Maybe if you work it right, you could wind up on a National committee in 20 years and work to change things. Right now though, your guys are playing soccer on a hockey rink.

"some people just hate others and will do whatever they can to make that person mad and to make them feel good." The way that a BOR is run, at least in my part of the world, is the Board discusses the the Scout with him out of the room, with everyone stating their reasons why or why not. If a hateful person was on the board, that would be apparent right away when he says, "I don't think that he really did his knots" when everyone else knows that he did. Peer pressure would then apply when everyone else said, "You ijit, you were there when he did his knots."

"Please sign my name up, being one with strong opinions, that have managed to anger both with a single post (thank you, thank you)" You angered me? I didn't notice. When was that?(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

Sturgen, you broke my cover. Now you're going to have to "vanish." "correct me if im wrong but doesnt venturing allow for for uniform to be defined by the crew through the bylaws, and therefor use what ever loops they want?" You're wrong but you could be right. If a Crew wears the official BSA Venturing uniform, they have to take it all. Pants, shirt, loops, etc. However, if they chose another uniform like your basic pilot shirt with epaulets and blue pants, they could wear any loops they wanted.

I read about this in Sturgeon's thread on Eagles and it is an intriguing idea. I'd guess that the Scouts would be much less likely than a parent to let someone slide because "they tried hard" or "they need to feel good about themselves."

Dan, what's the matter don't you like sheep? Okay, next issue. Bigotry? Other not being fond of pompous, arrogant, book-thumpers, I pretty much like everyone . . . even Zoomies like KS. ;-)

" What if they called it egg pie, would you eat it then?" Probably not. Most women that I know won't eat half the stuff that men will eat without question. That's life.

"Sorry but if families are moving out then families are moving in." Ha! Ha, ha! Ha, ho, ha! Ha, ho, he, ho, ha! Ho, ha, he, ha, ha, ho, hi, he, ha, ho-ho, ha, ha! Har! You don't get out much do you? You've never seen a town die when a supporting industry leaves?

" I am tired of the relentless attacks directed at me personally rather than the issue." LSHTIFOMC! "FOG gained access to this this forum by stealing the identity of a another poster." I'd still like to know whose identity I "stole" since there was no one registered with my name.

" If it's a fairly transient community, their families might be moving away. If the community doesn't have a lot of growth and there are 7 Troops in close proximity all vieing for the same kids, this could be a problem." Now that you've posed these possibilities, these non-hyposthetical troops will now suddenly not fall into these categories.

They are both very intelligent. I know that I am but I cannot speak for the other. They both have an extraordinary knowledge of scouting and scouting resources. Thank you but I'm still learning. They both are active scouters who I believe genuinely care about their scouts and their troops Yep. They both have a knack for selecting a single phrase or sentence and attacking an entire post based on it. It's an art. :-) They both bait each other on with snide remarks. At least I admit that I'm being snide. They both will often fail to directly answer to an attack, meaning their arguments take a circular pattern that will last for an excessive amount of posts. When you say "circular" are you excluding elipses? They both really don't like each other. However, I don't dislike him. They both will never admit when they're wrong. If it demonstrated that my data is in error, I will admit it and I have done just that. They both probably disagree with at least half of what I've just said. I'll let you score the results. I half-agreed with some of what you said and agreed with other parts.

" No, not an English major." Neither was I but I can spell.

Dsteele muttered, "(is that specific enough for you?)" Sorry, that's your example. Bob White has to supply his own. Right now Bob White playing a game akin to what seven year old play when they are matching their imaginary superheros, "Oh yeah, if your guy pulls out his death ray, mine will put up his invincible force shield!" "Yeah! If he does that, mine will go over the shield and use his atomic can opener."

One thing that I can say for sure is that if National ever adopted an age requirement for Eagle, bote Bob White and OGE would be as for it as they are now against it. Sturgen, I do have to say that your troop sounds interesting. Unusual but interesting. Do you have a troop web site that we could look at? Tell us more more about how your troop is run. Scouts on BORs? One Scout or is the whole board Scouts? What purpose does the Scout serve on the BOR? How quickly do most of your Scouts earn 1st Class? Once a Scout makes 1st Class, do you keep him out of leadership positions so he can't make Star?

Is a leader who requires prompting really leading or is he following? BTW, it is a "moot point" not "mute."

le Voyageur, What makes you think that I'd want a used bone? :-)

So, since they aren't a specific unit, it is a made up situation. Still looks hypothetical from this part of the bleachers. " If you insist on attacking me personally please consider starting a separate thread on that topic." I once started a thread about you which prompted you to run crying to your special friend and then you swore to never return. We saw how long it took you to return.

*-*-*-*-* New Flash *-*-*-*-* Heartland of America Three is not a number. Such a dramatic pronouncement has not been made in the world of mathematics since 1897 when the Indiana legislature redefined pi as 3.2. Evidently great mathematical minds are at work in the Midwest. What new surprises will follow? Is the Earth flat? Does the Sun really set in the ocean? Only time will tell. - 30 -

Ah, Bob White, changing the rules as you run away. "I'm sure anyone who has spent any amount of time in commissioner service has seen units such as these." No specific unit, gotta be hypothetical. Sorry, your discussion is irrelevant. Pehaps when you can provide us with real world examples, you can try to play again.

" I have been to one federal facility" And they still let you be a Scouter!?! That must be from the old days of no background check.

Ah, the old Bob White change the rules as you go ploy. If anyone who disagrees with you poses a "what if," you snivel that the example isn't valid because we can't prove that such an instance occurred. However, now that you want to pose the hypothetical situations, you whine that they are relevant.

"I'm sure anyone who has spent any amount of time in commissioner service has seen units such as these." Since you cannot cite specific examples, by your own rules of discussion, this whole thread is irrelevant.

"2 12 yr olds that organized the entirety of going to res camp, yes that includes the daily scoutmaster meetings, collecting the money, med forms, etc" Call me a cynic but how much of that was done or prompted by mom and dad? Consider your other thread about Eagles and how you comment on young Eagles having had their work done by mom.