Fat Old Guy

" Does he not say to love your enemies and turn the other cheek? The last time I checked, pointing or firing a gun at someone does not qualify as loving them." I suppose that letting them rape your wife does qualify as loving them? "When the guards came to arrest their company, was the disciple not ordered to stay his sword?" If you have read the book, you'd know that he had reason for that. "I have to hold firm to my claim, more guns do not make for a safer place." Funny how the statistics don't support your claim in places like Florida and Texas.

"it's amazing how some people obsess over patches" It is also amazing how some people will obsess over Pokemon cards, Beanie Babies, Hot Wheels, Coca-Cola posters, or stamps. Collectors always seems odd to those who either aren't collectors or those who collect something different. I saw a guy on TV recently who has a collection of 20,000 1 quart oil cans (motor oil used to come in cans not bottles). Strange? Not to him.

If by "stretch goal", you mean an outcome with no definite time of accomplishment, it depends. What is the goal in mind? Reopening a camp? "We're going to work on it" doesn't work too well there. You need, "we're going to be open in two years" You might not make it but you need to work toward it. On the other hand, saying "We want to improve Council-Unit relations in one year," doesn't make sense. You just need to keep working to improve that. YOu might also want to avoid saying things like, "we want to double the number of Eagles by 2005." Maybe a better statement would be, "We want to work to increase the number of Eagles with an ultimate goal of 10%" Like many things, a good idea often goes awry (example: Outcome Based Education).

" I am reminded of a fraternity brother of mine long ago who argued that one should not congratulate someone for receiving an honor which one has received oneself." Interesting but strange. One married man should not offer a new groom his congratulations. . . . well, that one makes sense. A doctor shouldn't congratulate his son who just graduated from med school? An Oscar winning actor shouldn't congratulate this years winners? If you think about it, it seems small to not congratulate those who are joining you. It would seem to be saying, "well, you made it but you're not worthy of my recognition." (This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

" Rarely are the stolen guns from gun safes." Ha! Ha, ha! Ha, ha, ha!

" If you can show me a hidden chapter in the bible where Jesus pulls out an M-16 " That would be difficult since Eugene Stoner was born in the 20th century. However, didn't Christ say "if you don't got a piece, go sell your Starter jacket and buy one"?

"Did the criminologists say how many of those guns are used by law enforcement officers?" The FBI says that citizens (non-cops) stop and detain three times as many criminals as the police do.

"Well gee FOG, give me enough credit to know better than to shoot a gun in the general direction of my family." Well, when the bad guy is shooting at you, you may forget that behind him is a wall and behind the wall is a room.

One of the great fictions of our society is that once you've paid your debt to society, you get a fresh start. It seems that once you've done wrong, it hangs over you for life. You can't vote, you can't buy a gun, you're an immediate suspect when something happens in your neighborhood. For my part, if the guy has paid his debt and looks like he's making a clean life, he should be given a try. If nothing else, maybe working with Scouting will make him a better person.

" the very fact that you are asking whether or not the Beatles are appropriate for scouting is prying into their personal lives." No prying is necessary. They made their private lives very public about 30 years ago.

Quite often the youth in any organization know little about politics of the organization. Soccer players know little about the jockeying for practice times or the special favors given to a powerful coach or the power struggles within the organization. All they usually care about is that they can play soccer.

NJ Dude asked, "Do you apply this to everything? Do you ask the owner of a grocery store who he voted for in the last election before deciding whether to shop there?" As much as I can. I don't buy Dockers or Levis. I don't buy Valvoline. If I know that a store actively supports organizations or causes that I don't like, I take my money elsewhere and write a letter to store owners. "If you did buy a Beatles CD today, I am not sure who would get the royalties for the performing rights anyway." I believe that Michael Jackson gets a big chunk. The Fuzzy Ursine said, "FOG, you are correct about it being wrong to cast stones at each other." FOG replies, "Huh?" I believe that public stonings in the town square are an effective punishment.

" We can now have a Beatle album burning, especially since so few of us have turntables." Only if you use an environmentally safe incinerator.

" I either like the entertainment or I don't. One annoying thing about our culture today is that there is so much intense focus on the private lives of people in entertainment, and the entertainers are not innocent victims, they cleverly let us know what they are doing so we will pay more attention to them." I don't separate the two. Why should I give money to someone whose lifestyle or politics I don't like? To help him buy more drugs? I won't go see a Spielberg movie or a Harrison Ford movie. Steisand? Forget about it.

Around here, the law requires that smokers be given smoke breaks to go outside to smoke. The non-smokers were offended so they started taking "smoke breaks" as well. By unwritten agreement, this practice is allowed because the smokers don't want their breaks to vanish. Maybe Dave is posting on his smoke breaks. BTW, you're not allowed to be mean and nasty around here, Bob White and I have that job.

" I suspect it's all an act, for all we know FOG has every Beatles' CD, the Beatles sheet-music wallpaper and the Ringo night-light from when he was 6." Nope, don't have a single Beatle's album, either as a CD or LP. I do have "Hard Day's Night as a Single," if my memory is right it came as a promotion with cereal.

"but them little figures sure got expensive over the last 20+ years." That's because 30 years ago, you could buy any neat wizard figure and have him be any wizard out there. More power didn't cost more money. Now these people got smart, if you want to have the Wizard to play their game, you have to buy THEIR wizard and more power costs more money.

" I always thought that Dave Allen was better. He was a stand up comic who sat in a chair with a big glass of ??? and looked at the foibles of life." 20 some years ago, I'd watch Dave Allen late at night and howl!

"Iron Man could possibly be the worst song ever made" Nah, that honor goes to William Shatner singing "Tambourine Man."

I haven't been able to find numbers for "threats" such as "give me your money or I'll shoot you" but no shots were actually fired but I'm sure they are out there. However, the FBI says that the weapons used in 32% of violent crime are feet, hands and other body parts. Firearms accounts for about 27%. Some criminologists claim that guns in the hands of honest citizens account for some 2.5 million instances of crime stopping without a shot being fired. "A responsible gun owner with children in their home will store the handgun and ammunition in separate locked locations, right?" Most guns should be stored unloaded but a gun for defense is useless if it is unloaded. Like a parachute or seatbelt, you may never need it but if you don't have it when you do need it, you'll never need anything again. The intelligent gun owner teaches his kids firearms safety just as they teach them how to work around a hot stove or use a sharp knife. I know more than a few cops and I don't know one who unloads his gun at night and stores the gun and ammo in separate locations. At best, some unload their pistols and leave the magazine with the pistol. I guess in your mind that makes them irresponsible. I do know one whose ex-wife made him leave his service pistol in his car at night.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

I've never seen anyone get carded for patches or knots at our Scout Shop. I have been told by one dad that he had to show his son's OA card before they'd sell him an OA flap. Oddly, I've bought bunches of OA flaps and I'm not in OA.

"FOG, I know the statute you are talking about." Nope. I'm talking about the historic defininition of the militia which was in use when the words were written. "As for the "statistics," what you're basically saying is that you don't know any of the numbers (which I don't either), but yet you are somehow able to call the number "statistically insignificant." I'm not impressed." According to the FBI and ATFE, there are over 200,000,000 guns in the country but at most 9,369 were used to cause the unlawful death of another person in 2002 (FBI Uniform Crime Report). How many were taken from their victims? Dunno. I'm sure that it strikes you as odd that the statistics show that violent crime is dropping dramatically in areas where gun may be carried by citizens.

After being taken to task by the morality police for using "TFB," I was surprised to see that so many of you are Beatles fans. For shame! The Beatles were atheists, drug using criminals, involved in casual sex with multiple partners, and just not good role models. Not really an appropriate topic for a Scouting forum.

Ah, once again Bob White shows that although he whines "Don't take shots at me," he lead by example and takes shots at others.

Man O'Steele said, "Let's hope the Scout uses his reward money to buy Dad some lessons in our wonderful language." You're right. Everyone knows that it should be "He done good."