Fat Old Guy

"I still carry my pocketknife (not the same one) but I honor (as I do with my CWP) those places in which such are prohibited. I trust that I will pay the price if I don't." I carry my knife in schools on a regular basis. The only places that my knife doesn't go are the courthouse (metal detectors) and the airport (even more metal detectors).

" Fortunately the school has rules, but in order for them to enforce those rules on the bad guys they also have to enforce them on the good guys." What a brave new world attitude. Discretion has always been part of enforcing rules. Cops make decisions about who to arrest daily (at least they used to). DA's make decision about who to charge on a daily basis as well. Also, as New Jersey Dude will likely tell you, there has to be an intent to break the rules, I think that the lawyers call it mens rea. Common sense has left the building.

Got caught in the rain in my spiffy Official BSA red wool jac-shirt the other day. Not a downpour, just a drizzle. As advertised, it kept me warm. The shocker came when I took my jacket off. Everywhere the wet wool had been in contact with my shirt, my shirt was stained red. This jacket isn't new and has been cleaned numerous times. Don't you think that they could use a dye that wouldn't run.

Not long ago, I was at the Scout Shop and they had "old style" Scout pants on clearance. My son HATES the pants with the elastic so this was a great windfall. At the time, Skinny Young Guy was wearing a 12 slim (another vintage pair with no elastic). So I picked up a pair of 12s and a pair of 14. Thinking that he'd be in good shape for the next few years. Now with his 12 slims, the legs were long enough for someone my height. There was at least 6" of extra fabric. His Cub Scout pants had been the same way. I consequently expected the new pants to be this way. This past week, I noticed that his pants were getting tight so I dragged out the 12s and had him try them on. He swam in them. I checked the tag. . . sure 'nuff size 12. It also said, 26 waist so I laid them out and checked with a tape, the waist was 28 inches. To make things even more interesting. If I had hemmed them there would have only been about 2" for the hem. So much for "Growing room." One more interesting thing. The left leg is a half inch shorter than the right. They sure weren't made by Zenith. (This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

"I'm curious as to how these weapons are being found. Are these stories about kids getting suspended and punished for having knives at school taking place in schools with metal detectors or searches?" In the two cases that I mentioned, the Scouts found it in their jacket pocket and foolishly removed it. In both cases, a "friend" immediately ratted them out. It is all foolishness. The kids who are the ones who are likely to use the knives aren't the ones getting punished.

sctldr commented, "My council just issued a new CSP. It has nothing on the back. Retail is 5 bucks. I have no idea what their source is, or what the cost is to the council." That might be a limited edition, commemorative CSP. RustyWaters asked, "How is it that some Troop's don't use the CSP on their uniform? I know of a troop in my district that still uses only town name red and whites. (no council patch) Are there other troops out there like this?" Some troops have opted to stick with the R&W community strips because they are an old troop. It is my understanding that the Scout Exec needs to approve these. Unfortunately, I've never seen a replica community strip that looks as nice as an original BSA. Usually, the red isn't quite right. FWIW, I think that we gave up alot when we lost the community strips. In a council the size of mine, it is nice to be able to look at a shoulder and tell where someone is from.

I've read that many libraries have started deleting or destroying logs of who used the computers. As for "proper legal authorization," I'm sure that if an FBI agent just shows his badge to a librarian, he'll be tripping over his feet to help that agent. "On the other hand I am an elected member of my local school board and a registered leader in a Boy Scout troop, checking about a book about people having sex with children." Didn't a member of the Who go through hell for a similar action not too long ago? "Have we reached the era where whatever the government says it needs to do to protect us is ok?" Sadly, most of the country seems to think that it is okay. After all, if you haven't done any thing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Right?

We've had two Scouts hauled off in handcuffs by the police for accidentally taking a knife to school. No charges were filed but it was embarassing and aggrevating. Considering how far the schools will go to not make the stupid feel stupid and embarassed by their lack of intelligence, it is interesting that they will embarass a kid by having him dragged off by the police.

"(it's important to show them to keep their tumb below the line of the knife blade so they don't get cut)" Don't you teach them to make a thumb buddy?

I'll just keep my non-PC observations to myself.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

"The Scoutmaster keeps his house his cars and his savings." Fortunately, I live in a state where they cannot take your house or personal property (cars). As for savings, my lawyer says that I don't have enough to spark any interest. SharksLawyers always go after the deepest pocket.

"Take a look at Aids to Scoutmastership 1920." Sorry but 1997 trumps 1920. :-) Or we could follow the lead of Bob White and declare that old books are invalid and have no value in today's world.

I like it.

" It would actually sound better to use to the official BSA designation of Scoutmaster Assistant." Huh? In my patch box, I don't have a single patch that says "Scoutmaster Assistant." In my many Scoutmaster Handbooks, it doesn't use that term either. However, the BSA way of writing it is "assistant Scoutmaster."

"Our practice is to give the cloth badges to the Scout the night they earn them. For Scout, that is the night that they tell me they have comleted the Youth Protection requirement. For all other ranks (except Eagle), it's the night of the BOR. We give cards & parent's pins at the COH." What about the Scoutmaster Conference? If you are counting all the things that they did for AOL as meeting the requirements for Scout, that isn't right. He can't start working on Scout until he has joined Boy Scouts.

You can get a decent lockback for about $12. Things to look for are lock that is solid (stay away from liner locks, the put the fingers in the way of the blades), a hinge that is solid and a blade that starts sharpe. Many inexpensive knives come with dull blades and then you spend forever sharpening them. I have pocket knives that range in retail price from $150 down to $30 but I've bought decent knives for as low as $3 for my son or one of his buddies. Shop around. Go to a gun show and talk to some knife vendors. Explain what you are doing. They might give you a bulk discount or Scouting discount. Whatever you do, stay away from serrated blades, they can do a number on small fingers.

I do rember that it wasn't the hockey dude (he was black and it was summer time). If my aging memory is working right, he was given the flag and started to run around the track waving it. Part way around, he draped it around his shoulders like cape. Not nearly as shocking as when Mark Spitz carried his shoes to the medal ceremony.

"The BSA uses two letter position codes for most (all?) volunteer positions. " What about Merit Badge Counselor? That's a "42" :-) "Asst. Scoutmaster => SA" However, most of us just call them "ASM."

" I feel that the number of scouters worried about the exact location of a service star is but a fraction of a percent of all the volunteers and not worth the energy to write about" Maybe we'd be better off if more Scouters worried about service star location just as we'd be better off if more Scouters worried about the Patrol method and didn't turn Boy Scouts into Webelos III. We'd be better off is more Scouters felt that that the Scout Law applied outside of Scout meetings ("Sure he's been expelled from School for fighting but should we let that impact his advancement?"). We'd be better off if parents would let their boys figure out where the money comes from rather than just writing checks for them. We'd be . . . .

Visit www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/8826/overview.html for a very informative site about the history of Exploring/Venturing. As for no rank requirements for Explorers to join OA, how can you have rank requirements for members of a program that has no advancement?

This thread was spun from another thread.A while back there was a discussion about the need for so-called artifical rules with some arguing that rules are never needed because all is covered by the Scout Law. In my continuing quest to build a collection of Scouting literature, I have discovered that BSA doesn't agree with those thoughts or they didn't as of 1997. With the nifty old OA hanbook, I also picked up a 1997 edition of "The Scoutmaster Handbook." On page 127, in the section "What to do About Bedtime" it says, "Make sensible rules about bedtime . . . and use the patrol leaders to enforce the rules>" (emphasis mine). Interesting, no?

"North was at the center of policies that promoted torture, terrorism, assassination and mass murder." In the 20th century that describes nearly every President. Quite a few in the 19th century too.

" appreciate North's service to his country as a soldier." Excuse me but Ollie wasn't a solider, he was a Marine. There's a difference.

"You keep working on those picture people terms though, you'll get it eventually." Well, you have your definitions and I . . . have the right ones. "You must have missed the optional "Picture People Term Workshop" at 21st Century Woodbadge." I have no plans to attend MS Wood Badge 2001. BTW, there are many reasons that the survey that you referenced is flawed but one reason leaps off the page, no unit may require a uniform.

In my eternal quest for old (and evil but I won't mention that) Boy Scout literature, I acquired a 1965 OA Handbook. I found it interesting, especially in light of the recent discussion of Venturers in OA (over in "Uniforms"). Way back then, Explorers could be elected to OA. This wasn't just a confusing reference to Explorers in a Troop because it talks about Posts and Ships. The camping requirements were almost the same for Scouts and Explorers (long term camping was defined differently) but there was no advancement requirement for Explorers. Something else was interesting. The book makes several references to "male" members of the Post but girls weren't allowed into Exploring until 1971. (Under "Who may vote" it says, "Explorer Units -- Every active male male member of the unit under age 21 . . ."). Does any one know when Explorer Posts stopped having OA elections or did continue until the creation of Venturing? BTW, I also snagged a Red Cross first aid handbook from the 50's. Amazingly, it describes when and how to use a tourniquet the same way that it is described today with the same warnings. The two biggest differences that I could find are that blood borne diseases aren't mentioned and CPR isn't there either. Interesting, no?