Fat Old Guy

Bob White, who welcomes all interruptions from his children, said, "Would you tell your son that if he needs to talk about anything that you are available the second Wednesday of each month form 6PM to 7:30PM?" No but my son knows that except in extreme circumstances that I'm only avaiable for chit chat between 5 PM and bedtime. There have been times that he's woken me up at 2 AM and been sent packing and there have been other times that he's woken me up at 2 AM and we've gone downstairs, eaten a box of Thin Mints and talked about the troubled life of a 13 year old. "Would you tell a friend that if they ever want to visit with you that you will be at Denny's restaurant for breakfast on the third Tuesday of each month from 6Am to 7AM be sure to schedule an appointment because you have a number of friends to talk to as well?" It isn't unusual for friends to have standard meeting times and places. My wife and her bestest friend have dinner every Tuesday evening. If another friend wanted to go out on Tuesday, I'm sure that my wife would say, "Can we make it Thursday?" "If your minister came up to you and said, "you look like you could use someone to listen to you, I'm available from noon till 1pm on the first Saturday of each month, be sure to make an appointment", how comforting would that be to you?" Gee, a good buddy of mine is a Baptist minister and, except in extreme case, people who want to talk with him make an appointment. The SM Conference may indeed be informal conversation and the SM may indeed initiate it at times, a good example when he notices that a Scout isn't playing well with others. However, I'm still looking for anything printed that says that the SM initiates the conferences that are required for advancement.

See this is where BSA literature conflicts with itself. The Advancement Committee P&P books says that you can't recognize the Scout until the paperwork is filed. However, in an article from the March-April 1986 issue of Scouting titled "The Board of Review" it says, "He is entitled to wear the badge of rank as soon as he has passed the Board of Review." The current SM Handbook says, "A Scout should receive his new badge as soon as possible after his achievenment has been certified bya Board of review." I've seen other comments (I don't want to do the research a 1:30 AM) that a Scout should receive his badge at the BOR and then be recognized at the next troop meeting. Did the policy change sometime in the not so distant past?

Our Scout Shop doesn't restrict patch purchase but does control the flow of rank cards. Usually, you only get one for each andvancement that you submit with a report. However, if you are a known entity, you can get extras and replacements.

" The keeping of a stockpile of rank advancement patches is wrong." Why? The Scout Shop is at least a half hour away. If a Scout has a BoR and advances, I don't expect someone to drive a half hour there and a half hour back to get one patch. Not very practical. "At the troop level, I do not award the Scout his rank badge until I (or someone) has turned in his advancement report to the council." What if no one makes it to the council office for a month? Are you going to make him wait? The various books say that you should give the Scout his patch immediately. (This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

If you are looking for cool neckerchiefs (they call them "neckers" over there) check out www.scoutneckers.com. They don't do silk screening or embroidery but can do some interesting designs with just fabric.

Interesting. Thanks. I didn't know that there was an adult selection committee and that selectees had to be approved by the SE. I wonder how many are disapproved and how early you find out if you've been disapproved.

I recently went and bought about a dozen rank patches without submitting an advancement report and no one said a word. Maybe it's because I'm a regular customer but I've never seen them quesition anyone about rank patches. No, that's not entirely true. I recall a Dad buying a bunch of Cub Scout stuff and the shop manager explained that rank badges were usually awarded by the pack. The dad replied that he was buying duplicates for new shirt.

I bought a FieldBook last year and feel like I got ripped off :-( Sniff!

At a recent roundtable, one of the OA Advisors came and talked, complained if you will, about how few adults help out with OA. Many are chosen, go through the Ordeal and then vanish. His point was that if more adults don't help, the chapter might vanish. The problem that I see and was shared by many at the RT was that the adults who are eligible to join OA by virtue of service and camping time are probably heavily involved in other aspects of Scouting and don't have much more time to give. Then there are those that have the time and would be willing to help because they aren't involved in everything else but can't join because they don't go camping. I know that if I was nominated for OA, I'd have to think long and hard about accepting because I spend so much time on troop duties. The problem then becomes, later when I'm not so active with the troop, I wont' be able to join OA. One OA advisor said to me after the roundtable that he had joined OA years before but had been inactive until he son was out of Boy Scouts but now was very active but found it ironic that he wouldn't be eligible to join now. If this is an epidemic problem with OA, should they not be revising the selection procedures to recruit adults who actually can do what the adults are supposed to be doing?

For some reason, far too many of the adults in my troop seem to think that their function at Summer Camp is to play shepherd. Guiding the Scouts from station to station, making sure that they get to the right place at the right time and that they do their work. I'm of the time that once the Scout knows where the different places are, the adults primary function should be to sleep . . . just half kidding but we don't need to be following the Scouts around. Does anyone else have this problem and how do you deal with it.

Stapler Guy, Wheeler and Bob White share a common trait, they only parrot what others have written. Consider that to the King Geo. Washington, TJ, et al were all traitors a could have been hung upon capture.

"True patriotism is that which there is a "LOVE" of the laws of ones' own country for they form the "soul" of the country. If you love the laws of your country, then you love your country. Patriotism." Don't know if I can buy that. Did the true German patriots during the 1930s and early 40s love their country's laws? What about Russian patriots during most of the 20th century? I suppose that South African patriots all supported aparthied? What do you suppose is the patriotism level of an employer that exports jobs to other countries? Not things like factory jobs, but highly skilled jobs like programming?

I having some problems with the whole concept here. First we say that advancement is driven by the Scout and he advances at his own rate. Next, we say that we expect Scouts to contact strangers to arrange for merit badge stuff. Lastly, Bob White says that we can't expect a Scout to say, "Hey, I've done everything for 1st Class. Now I need to go talk to Scoutmaster Friendly, a man that isn't a stranger and I've known for many months." On the flip side of that, there is the idea that the Scoutmaster should be talking to all of the Scouts on a periodic basis just to see how things are going in and out of Scouting. Much like a priest talks to his parishioners to see how things are going for them. I do have a bit of a problem with "accomodating" the Scout's schedule. Should we conduct a BOR at 4 PM on a Wednesday because a Scout has some sporting conflict on Sunday evening when everyone else does their BoR? Doesn't that tie into the whole "importance of Scouting" issue? If Scouting is just something to do between other activites, is the Scout really getting anything out of the program or being active? My son's basketball coach was complaining about one of the players on the team who put basketball and the team at a very low priority. This kid also wrestled and "had" to practive four days a week. The basketball team only had one practice a week at that time but this kid would skip basketball practice if he had something else to do one evening that kept him from wrestling practice. Of course, neither the player nor the kid understood why he didn't get much playing time, after all "this is just basketball and wrestling is important" (direct quote from mom).

It is interesting how references to the Scoutmaster Conference have changed over the years. In the 1957 Handbook, an SM conference isn't even mentioned with respect to advancement. In that handbook, the PLC reviews the requirements and then the SM arranged for a BOR. Ten years later, in the 1967 Handbook, it says, "meet with your Scoutmaster in a personal conference . ." There is no indication of who should initiate the contact but if the SM was to initiate it, I would expect it to say, "the SM will meet with you . . ." In 1990, the Handbook says, "meet with your Scoutmaster . . ." To me this implies that the Scout should initiate the contact. Unfortunately, I don't have my own copy of the current Handbook and I'm not going to wake my son up to find out where his copy is. Okay, now I've provided references. I'm still waiting for Bobo Blanco (who "won't" read this) to provide references for his point of view.

"Our popular culture still elevates the macho guy who solves problems with fists and guns." Not popular culture. Guys. Wymen and intellectual elite mock and ridicule the action movie with the manly hero. Most men suffer the same ridicule from their wives and especially the wives' friends when they go do something "rugged." "Oh that Bob, always running off to do some silly thing as if he was a kid." It may be silly for Bob and his buddies to go rock climbing but it is perfectly acceptable for Bob's wife Suzie and her pals to spend time at a day spa being rubbed with a loofa.

" Women MUST be involved in BSA as leaders. This is exactly why I said I would tear the uniforms from my sons back if women were to be removed. My boys will never grow up with this demented, out dated, garbage, opinion of women" That's only because women have told you to think that way. Women are the greatest sexists of all. It is okay for women to go to a club and watch nearly naked men dance because "it's just fun" but if men go to watch girls dance, they are depraved. There's a new gym in town but men aren't allowed to use it, just try to have a "men only" business. I could go one but I'll start to rant. I will close by telling ASM1 to just castrate his sons now and make them more acceptable to society.

Wheeler, this is the 21st century. Many men are decidely unpopular and boys engaging in manly activities are equally unpopular. Don't fight. Don't climb that tree. Don't jump your bike off a cliff. Don't ogle the girls (although it is fine for them to ogle you). It is acceptable for Helen Ready (sp?) to sing, "I am woman. Hear me roar!" but it is unacceptable for men to proclaim, "I am man!" Women sing, "I can bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan" but if a man reminds a woman that he's the provider, he's an ogre. Sociologists are now claiming that many of the ills of our society are related to femminism and women working. Mom's not home after school so junior hangs out on the corner getting into trouble. Mom doesn't want to skip a day at work so junior goes to school with strep throat and infects half of his class. Mom wants to work so junior is raised by strangers at the day care center. There are those families that both adults need to work to make ends meet but the wonks who study such things say that much of that has been caused by the increase of two income families who now have more disposable income which raises prices. I know many women who work for absurd reasons, leaving their kids to be raised by other people. One that comes to mind works so they can own a beach house AND a cabin in the mountains. Hubby makes about $150,000 a year so they aren't starving but for the sake of weekend retreats, Junior and Sis go to day care at 6 AM and get picked up at 6 PM. Okay, now you can call me evil for expressing such opinions.

"Now what got my attention is that a school bus felt the need to have a video camera on board. What has become of our society? It is truly sad." We live in an increasingly strange society. Adults are required to run to the authorities (shades of Germany 1938) if they suspect an incident of child abuse. However, in many cases, those same adults cannot step in to protect a child from other children. There was a case in the news recently (caught on videotape) in which kids on a school bus started pounding another kid. The victim was severly injured but the driver did nothing. Why? Because he's not allowed to touch a child. In such a situation, he is supposed to stop the bus, direct the thugs to stop and then call the police.

This story sounds very familiar. Did someone post a similar story here about a Scout with unsubstantiated advancement? Or did I read that on rec.scouts.usa? In any case, without documentation you don't have a choice. Sounds like he might be trying to run a scam. He and mom are hoping that he can get Eagle at the 11th hour without doing the work.

New Jersey Dude said, "Notice when I made the statement I said "I believe," that's my way of saying nobody can pick on me too much if I'm wrong." Yep, do that myself.

Wow! I think that means that I'm spending too much time on-line.

I don't have my Insignia Guide handy but it says that alternative neckerchiefs must be the same size and shape as the official neckerchiefs.

" We also have a very active Scouter in our troop who also enjoys working with a local Girl Scout troop. I see nothing wrong with his working with the girls, as long as there is sufficient chaperonage - which there always is." Do you insist that there are proper chaperones for the female Boy Scout leaders when they go camping with the boys?

Wheeler ranted and rightly so, "I read that 50% of the youth in the venturing programs are female!!!! How many boys in the Girl Scouts?????? CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW MANY BOYS IN THE GIRL SCOUTS???? "How come this discrepancy? Can anyone tell me why there are no boys in the Girl Scouts but women in the Boy Scouts???" Way back in the late 60s' girls realized that guys were having loads of fun in Exploring. A girl tried to join a post, was denied and a lawsuit resulted. BSA eventually caved in a admitted girls to Exploring. Why did girls want to join Exploring when they had Girl Scouts and Campfire Girls to join? Probably because BSA's programs were more fun and much more interesting. Around the same time, there was a legal action launched against Campfire Girls because a boy actually did want to join. His mother was a leader, his four sisters were in Campfire Girls and he wanted to be with them. Men are admitted to GSUSA as leaders but since we men are evil creatures, we cannot run a troop by ourselves and men on camping excursions must sleep in the next county.

" There is a World Organization of the Scout Movement that I believe includes both the BSA and GSUSA, as well as (obviously) Boy and Girl Scout" GSUSA belongs to WAGGS, the World Association of Girl Guides and Scouts, in the rest of the world Girl Scouts are Girl Guides. In some countries Boy Scouts and Girl Guides have merges, which is indicated by the trefoil overlaid on the fleru de lys. In many other countries, Boy Scouts have gone co-ed but Girl Guiding continues as a separate program (This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)