Fat Old Guy

"Just curious on how it can be time for a Venturing Honor Society?" How long does something have to be around before they can form an Honor Society? "Venturing has only been around for 6 years" Under the current name but a "rose would still smell . . ." Do you consider that Exploring was just a continuation of Explorer Scouts? Exploring went through many changes, including name changes. Venturing is just the current incarnation.

"The real leader is the one who serves others." Pardon me while I . . . . . RALPH!!!! There, now I feel better. Leadership is much more complex than Bob White could ever know. Based on his saccharine enhanced, new age philosophy, the best leader would be a waiter. A good leader looks out for the welfare of his charges. A good leader makes use of the skills and talents of those under him to accomplish his mission. A good leader inspires his followers which makes them willing to follow his lead. Sometimes a leader has to direct which is the time that everything that he has done before becomes important. I'd suggest that you sit down with Bobby, someplace away from a Troop meeting. Perhaps at the local eatery where you can have piece of pie and something to drink. There is something about breaking bread together that can defuse tense situation. Ask him about where he'd like to see the troop going. Talk aobut your vision for the troop. Look for common points. Find out what his skills and strengths are. Give him a mission. Show how he can help the troop be a better troop.

Eagle Dad commented, "We have never had a scout get lost or complain. We have had scouts skip class, but that is not the adults problem other than living by the scout law. In just about every instance however, the scout suffers the consequences as his friends earn badges and advances while he stands there watching." I wish that you were here. Too many of the adults in my troop think that their job is making sure that the Scouts get their badges at summer camp. NeilLup, saftey isn't an issue. I think that Scout Camps may be some of the safest places in the modern world except for the bears that visit the tents of the new adults in the wee hours of the morning (we aren't supposed to haze Scouts but no one said anything about hazing adults). I think that much has to do with the inability of adults to let go.

BSA is always making changes but they are usually evolutionary and not revolutionary. I know that you guys did away with the tradional rank of Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class some time ago. Never did understand that. What else are you doing?

" The Scout who needs SPL the most is someone working towards Eagle. " To borrow from Dana Carvey doing George HW Bush, "Baaaaaaad." Leadership positions should be filled by the best qualified candidates not someone "who needs it." Rotating leadership to allow Scouts to get their tickets punched does no one any favors.

TxScoutDad, thanks for the update. It's been 20 years since I've even looked at the FARs. BTW, according to the Discovery Channel, there are some wacko white guys that try Everest without O2. Insane isn't it.?

Boys not washing their hands? Horrors! All the boys that I know wash their hands before AND after they go to the bathroom and take a shower in the morning and before dinner. Of course, these boys are all on the planet Zebunon.

Chlorine also kills all the good bacteria that keeps the latrine working. Years ago, I was told that a properly functioning latrine doesn't stink. The proof was that the latrines at that camp didn't stink.

I'm sure that if a 400 lb man waved a million dollar check at National, Philmont would let him go on a trek and have a Medivac helicopter on standby.

It is all a case of sour grapes. Instead of trying to build an organization like BSA, the atheists and the swishy types work to destroy it. Now the ACLU has nearly another million of tax dollars in their war chest. Now the facility will be shut down because no organization will step up to run it and the taxpayers won't want to pay for it. BTW, I don't know what Boy and Girls Clubs are like in Moi-lin's area but around here they suck big time.

When I used to build rubberband powered balsa wood and tissue paper models, the recommended lubricant was green soap and glycerine. Unfortunately, that was 35 years ago and I don't remember the proportions.

I don't know what the fuss is. A seat over a hole in the ground is better than digging a cat hole in the woods. A hot shower might be nice but I can live for a week without a flush toilet.

How about "Old Handbooks: A Danger to Your Mortal Soul or an Aid to Good Scouting"?

"The Philmont Weight Requirements are also backed up by the information that the Life Insurance Companies which show that as group those who weight more than the ideal weight are more likely to die prematurely from heart attacks." So are smokers and heavy drinkers but they aren't excluded.

A while back I commented that I'd like to see the way of wearing the neckerchief go back to the way that it was in olden days with the neckerchief worn OVER the shirt. No more folding the collar in or trying to stuff the necker under the collar. I recall being taken to task and told in no uncertain terms that the neckerchief was never worn that way and that if I'd worry about the way things are today my life would be better or something like that. Oddly, I can find my original message but I can't find the snide response. I wonder what happened to it . . . hmmmmmmmm. Anyway. I didn't respond at the time because I didn't have the reference material at hand. Now I do. The first handbook makes no mention of the neckerchief. Probably because BSA was wearing those high collar military jackets. I don't have a second edition handbook. However, I do have the extraordinarily evil third and fourth editions and here's what they say about the neckerchief. "First fold the neckerchief diagonally . . .Turn the long edge over about three inches evenly, once, twice or even three times to the size of the boy . . . Place around the neck over the collar of the shirt . . . (emphasis added). How to wear the neckerchief seems to have been omitted from the fifth edition. What is also interesting is that in the old days, you altered the roll of the neckerchief to go with the size of the Scout. Interesting, no?

"Arrow of Light is not a rank, . . ." Dunno if I buy that. It goes on an advancement report and he's given an advancement card to go with it. Award and rank seem to be used interchangeably in BSA. There's Eagle Scout which is a rank but is often referred to as an award. One does wonder if the term "rank" should be used at all. Does a Second Class outrank a Tenderfoot? Does he deserve extra respect and signs of obeisance?

CS Kitchen Guy said, " If Coleman or Sears made such a product out of blue nylon instead of mil-spec OD nylon, would the BSA accept it?" You can find brown pistol belts at just about any hardware store, they call them tool belts. :-) I think that I'm on record as liking my old military gear. For a day pack, I use a pistol belt, suspenders, and a butt pack. The pack is big enough to hold socks, clean skivvies, lunch, and some odds and ends like paracord, matches. My jacket or poncho straps to the bottom of the pack and I'm good to go. packsaddle said, " I suppose that, to use a hypothetical, if I saw FOG in a tight t-shirt and shorts (and to my knowledge I have never seen him): Drew Carey once asked the audience, "Do you know why I don't wear a Speedo at the beach?" His reason is why I don't wear tight shorts or tight t-shirts anymore. Now, 25 years ago . . . that was a different story. Fortunately, fashion has changed to keep up with my changing physique.

" Artificial Respiration to be a good troop leader," Your mother must have been frightened by a first aid instructor when she was carrying you, that's the only explanation for your obsession with artificial respiration. Dana, Bob White is like Pooh. He has only so much procession power and to expend that worrying about what has happened in the past taxes that power. Remember, what exists now is all that we need to know, all that we'll ever need to know and all that we should ever want to know. Unless, BSA reduces the amount of information required for any activity.

"What if you have a troop that is not functioning as envisioned, and more specifically, a SM and CC that seem oblivious to the Aims and Methods, much less how to implement them." By-laws and handbooks won't help in this situation. I know too many Scouters who have been trained and trained and been through more training but yet want to run the program their way. They justify it by saying, "If we don't do it, it won't get done" or "the boys are capable of doing . . ." If you have Scouters who have run amok, look to your UC or DC for help. By-laws and rules help keep order in an already orderly situation. Who may check out equipment? Check the book. Do I have to replace the toilet paper in the patrol box or does the QM do that? Check the book. I lost my 1st Class badge, can I get a new one? Check the book. They won't help with "SM refuses to let SPL and PLC select activities."

" But it probably isn't required to abuse someone when you make your point, is it?" Abuse? Who'd I abuse? "On another point, I do disagree with you about the turning the popcorn money in on time. This definitely falls under being Trustworthy, if Trustworthy includes being able to be counted upon to complete required tasks." How do they know what is on time unless a deadline is set?(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

"As for the Popcorn scenario. If you feel that none of the other Scout Laws fit try Obedient." Sorry that doesn't fit either. To be obedient, there must be rules to obey.

"Since when did turning in your popcorn money become a "rule". It is an announcement." Call it what you want, it is a rule. Not all rules have punishments.

"It worked well Patrol that won got to wear a gold necker for the next month and had name added to a plaque if they won the most months in a year." Sounds like rules to me.

"But since FOG is improbably galloping to your rescue I mention to both of you that a UU boy scout CAN play by the rules and still be the object of special sanctions by BSA." No special sanctions involved. No part of Scouting is closed to this boy simply because he is a member of UU, please remember the Religious Emblems are not a part of BSA. BSA may need critics inside of it but you go beyond criticism. You disagree with fundamental parts of Scouting. I ask Bob White's question, why are you involved? Is it a selfish reason like you want your son to make Eagle so he can get into a service academy?

Ah Eamonn, you are really taking your Bob White lessons to heart. Which point of the Scout Law covers the popcorn money deadline? Trustworthy? No. No one has stolen any money. Friendly? Nope, friends or enemies can turn money in. Helpful? Mebbe but only if they know when the deadline is. Clean? Nah. Reverent? Only if take that tack that one should render unto Ceasar. Courteous? See Helpful. Brave? Only if you've spent the popcorn money on comic books and have to ask Mom to make up the difference.