Fat Old Guy

For the record,, I haven't bought a copy of Playboy since 1980. I did read the articles and interviews. I also looked at the pictures and even hung the centerfolds on my dorm walls.

This is a problem that I've seen in my son's troop and other troops. The patrols just don't have an idea of esprit de corps. I'm not even sure if I see it among sports teams (I do see it among the fans), especially boys teams. The game is over and they head for the hills.

I'd check to see if any Girl Scout units are getting free storage. BSA does not discriminate on the basis of sex, as long as you have one you can be a member. There are men, women, boys and girls in BSA. BSA does not discriminate on the basis of religion, as with sex, as long as you have one, you are welcome.

"As a scouter that remembers the garters, I was every day rubbing out the indentations that they made." I like the look of the current knee socks but I have a problem with them making indentations in my legs. :-)

I don't have one yet and I'm wondering how far do they throw their beam? "I know that red is good for night vision... ever since I read the book "Up Periscope" " Great book as were all the Robb White stories. I wonder if they are even still in print.

Bobby said, "My question remains unanswered Owl. In the Troop program, at what event other than Courts of Honor are the parents present so that an FOS presentation can take place?" I'm still with Bobby here (Satan yelled, "Hey! Where's my sweater?"). If you held a special parents meeting and announced that it would be for an FOS presentation, how many would show up? If you just sent an empty envelope home with each Scout how many would make it back? If the Scout didn't misplace the envelope before he got home, how many would be put aside by the parents with every intention of stuffing it later but who forget about it? The Girl Scouts have a horrible system for soliciting donations from parents. They send an envelope home with each girl and then expect the troop leader to harass the parents until they return the envelope.

I'd rather be a curmudgeon than an Oscar Mayer product any day of the week.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

"On the other hand, you have to understand why Bob might want to squelch FOG" Shouldn't you say that you understand why Bobo claims to have squelched me?

"I too find FOG's personal attacks gratuitous, unnecessary, and un scoutlike." Can something be gratuitious and necessary?

Mrs. White said, "Blah, blah, blah . . . . blah, bl-blah, blah." Oh Mrs. Smith, do you spend your life trying to get rid of people? You show up here wanting to get rid of an SM and now you want to get rid of me. You're not a happy person. Maybe you should seek help? If I had made negative comments about Satanism or Druidism, would you have been as outraged? I seriously doubt it. Do I think that you're going to read this? I sure do. Like Bob White, you claim to ignore me but you're going to be checking back every hour to see what my response is. TTFN.

I'm waiting for MS Woodbadge XP to be released.

"Ahhh..the tabs. Ok, I know what you are talking about now. Interesting how uniforms from yester-year and even street clothes from the past had so many more accessories than clothes of today." I don't know about that . . . at least for men. Shoes, socks, belt, shirt, tie, pants, jacket. The big change since the 50s was the elimination of the hat for most men. Women, on the other hand used to wear white gloves and a hat when they went to a department store. I do think that most people dress like slobs today. Before Christmas, I went to see my daughter's "Winter Chorus Festival." I didn't wear a suit but I did wear a sweater and dress slacks. There were parents there in sweat pants and a t-shirt.

"If they did not change so often and could choose one uniform to last through the years we would have a SOLID image." In BSA's defence, they kept the same uniform for about 50 years with minor updates. In the 70s, the shirt changed a bit by getting rid of the pleated pockets and the pants lost those nifty pocket flaps. After that, for 25 years they've kept the uniform pretty much the same except that they keep messing with the pants. I haven't run across anyone except a mother who likes the elastic waitband. Why not just go back to the simple jeans cut pants or something like a pair of dress pants. Since no one wears the field uniform in the field, why bother with the cargo pockets?

"There is no limit in the number of Troop Instructors that a Troop can have. There very rarely are enough Den Chiefs. And for advancment below Eagle Scout, there can be a Scoutmaster assigned project to meet the leadership requirement." I have no ojection to being creative in finding a position of responsibility for a Scout. What I don't like is the rapid rotation of jobs "to give everyone a chance." The Scout never learns the job, usually an adult winds up doing the work, and no one is very happy. Another objection that I have is when a kid gets credit and all he does is wear the patch.

" My first pack was a Boy Scout Yucca 35 years ago." Were boys' clothes smaller back then? I find it interesting that a Yucca pack was adequate for a weekend jaunt in the 60s but today, these kids want 3,000 cubic inches and fill it up.

BW said, "Through the 70s scouts wore knee socks that were held up by garter straps hidden by folding over the top of the sock. A tassle hung from the garter visbile below the cuff of the sock. A yellow tassle was worn by Cub Scouts, a green tassle by Boy Scouts, and a red tassle by Explorers." Why didn't Oscar de la Hoya keep this simple color scheme when he invented the shoulder loops.

"Maybe he never said it but he has inferred it." Ed, Bobo implied and you inferred.

"Some of us here say we like the current BSA uniforms and some of us say we hate them." I don't necessarily dislike the style (although elastic waistbands can go back on the drawing board), I just dislike the construction. "But aren't we all glad we don't have to wear the new Australian uniform??" You betchum, Red Ryder! "I did not see anything wrong with their current uniforms." Probably an image consultant, the same ones that convinced BSA that the new handbook was a good design, convinced them that they needed a contemporary uniform to "update their image." The Navy tried a revolutionary update to the sailor suit back in the 70s and it was a miserable failure. The Marine Corps dress uniform has remained essentially the same for around 100 years and they don't have an image problem.

I have to agree with Bobo here (and Satan said, "Brrrrrr!"). There's a couple problems. Parents write a check and think that they are paying for Scouting. They don't realize that none of that $50 or $100 that they give the Troop goes to the Council. The FOS presentation is supposed to educate parents that Scouting costs much more than the check that they write every year. The other problem is that it seems that it is usually the volunteers that feel like they are the ones being asked to donate. The volunteer looks at the envelope and says, "Geeze Louise! I give my one hour a week. I drive all over creation. I buy these over priced uniforms. Now they want me to give another $100." I know one Scouter who hated the FOS presentations because he felt that he gave enough with his time along with the Thousands of dollars worth of popcorn that his two sons sold every year. Something happened and now he does the FOS presentations.

"Do you know if the youth members had any input as to the design?" Does that matter? If your son told you that he was going to his Uncle Bob's wedding wearing a jock strap and a tank top would you say, "Well, if that's what you want to wear" or would you have a discussion with him about the idea of dressing well?

I went looking for the UK Scout uniform and found this http://cnb-host4.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/scouting2007?imageID=60&op=imgLib-viewImage Now that's a uniform that I'd wear gladly! (BTW, that's sarcasm) Looks the shirt that the guys at the local McD's wear.

Check your library for a copy of the Boy Scout Handbook.

"6) A yellow uniform shirt I picked up by error (oops, forget that.)" I have one of those that I got by accident on ebay because the picture was horrible and I didn't notice that the buttons were backwards.

"Could it be that they asked the Scouts what they wanted to wear?" Did they?

Oz Emu mentioned their new uniform so I went looking for it and found it at http://www.scouts.com.au/general/index.asp?iShellID=675&sKeyword=SOZ_SEARCH He's right, it does look like it came from Burger King. Gotta wonder how that came about. Was it designed by folks that never talked to anyone involved in Scouting and then the Pooh-bahs were afraid to not like because it would be like the Emperors New Clothes. "If you don't like the uniform, there's something wrong with you." What sense does a dark blue uniform make in a land where they don't even put heaters into cars (that's what Car and Driver said about 15 years ago). Of course, if such at thing happened here, there are those who would insist that it was a great uniform because it is the BSA uniform.