Fat Old Guy

In my troop, I've noticed that nearly 100% of the Scouts who drop out in their first year are boys who didn't go to Summer Camp as Cub Scouts.

"BTW, I think I follow the Disney thing but I don't know about the Levi-Strauss thing. What's that all about? " Let's start with Levi-Struass being headquartered in San Francisco. Levi's, expecially the button fly jeans are very popular among homosexuals (so says the Washington post) Many Levi employees are homosexuals. Levi-Strauss pulled their support of BSA a couple years ago to show support for the homosexual community. Consequently, I don't buy Levis or Dockers. A couple years ago my son gave me a Docker's branded watch for my birthday so I smashed it with a hammer. Just kidding there but I did ask my wife how she could let him spend his money on that. I can't eat veal because she feels sorry for the calves but she doesn't support any of my boycotts. I also won't spend any money on Spielberg (sp?) movies anymore. Need I say that my wife still goes and takes the kids?

Packsaddle, out of curiosity, what is your height and girth?

"The new Venturing Program is very different from the traditional Explorer Program. If it were the same, as in chartered by Police Departments or Fire Departments, we would have still had the exact same problem." The thing is that Exploring in its many guises (Explorer Scouts, Explorers, Exploring) existed for many years before the creation of career Explorer Posts. Venturing is what Exploring started out as and what it came to be without the career posts. First there were Sea Scouts, then came Air Scouts and Explorer Scouts. After the War there were Sea Explorers, Air Explorers, Explorers and, to cause confusion Exploring Crews in Troops. Then in the late 50's came Exploring with some career posts and there was Sea Exploring and Aviation Exploring. Finally, we wind up with Career Exploring leaving and Sea Exploring and all other posts going into Venturing. Now we have the confusion of Venture Patrols and Venturing Crews, very much like they had after the War. Maybe most people are like Silver-Shark and CubRGr8 and they didn't even know that real Exploring posts existed. Maybe that's why the name went away. I just know that it is a pain to have to continually explain what Venturing Crews are.

From stories that I've heard, I consider myself lucky that my unit isn't chartered by a church. I've heard horror stories from other Scouters. The common thread is that a church starts a Boy Scout troop with the idea of it being part of their youth ministry, which is appropriate and good. Many of the boys from church join and thing go well. The church gives great support to the troop because, "after all, they are our kids." Over time, the troop grows and many kids from outside the church join because they have friends in the troop. Evenutally, someone in the church develops a resentment toward the troop. "Why are we letting them use the church hall and not charging them? Most of those boys don't even go here." One well placed grumbler can start many grumbling. First it is the money. "We give them X dollars and . . ." Then comes, "Do you know how much money the Scout Troop has? Why do they need that much money and if they have that much, why do we give them stuff?" Soon, many things are laid at the feet of the Boy Scouts. Backed up toilet, the Boy Scouts did it. All the chalk is gone, the Boy Scouts did it. Something is missing, the Boy Scouts took it. I don't know the solution. One thing that I do know is that it isn't a very Christian attitude.

"Everyone says the funds and equipment belong to the CO, but that depends on which state you live in." I'm sure that some one else can answer this better than I can but I'll give it a shot. BSA units don't exist as legal entities unto themselves. They have no papers of incorporation, there are no partnership agreements, nothing. They exist, under the agreements signed by the Charter Organization, as part of the Charter Organization. Just like the choir robes belong to the church, so do the Boy Scout canoes.

Just for you, CubRGr8, I'll try to put this in simple terms. Many, many years ago BSA was founded. More than a few years later, BSA started the Explorer Scouts which consisted of Air Explorers, Land Explorers (if that was the right name) and Sea Explorers (which went through a variety of names). The public associated Explorers with Boy Scouts, as it was indeed a BSA program just like Cub Scouts is a BSA program. Eventually, Explorer Scouts became Explorers, career exploring came in with Police and Fire Explorers, computer Explorers, chemistry explorers, etc. but the Sea Scouts were still around as were "high adventure" exploreres and I'm sure that there were still some aviation posts. The public still viewed Exploring in all of its guises as a BSA program just like Cub Scouts. Political pressure prompted BSA to spin off the career Explorers into the subsidiary organization, Learning for Life. My question is simple, when Exploring had over 50 years of name recognition as a BSA program (like Cub Scouts) why did they spin that name off to the subsidiary and create a new program with a new name for the traditional Exploring program?

"FOG, why would you go to an oral surgeon for a tooth extraction? It's a simple procedure nowadays done by most general dentists. You will always pay more for work done by an oral surgeon (that could have been done by a general dentist)." That's a good question. Our dentist doesn't do extractions. I've asked other dentists that I know and they don't do extractions either.

" So, I don't understand FOG's confusion and comment about exploring being for older boy scouts. " You are the confused one. Re-read my statements. Nowhere do I say that exploring is for older Boy Scouts.

"I boycott Disney. " Do you also boycott Levi-Strauss?

The wool pants aren't that much more than the cotton and not a whole bunch more than the poly/cotton. I'll have to look at them next time I'm at the Scout Shop.

"And what doe that have to do with my Moms home state? " Q: Do you know how you can tell the toothbrush was invented in West Virginia? A: If had been invented anywhere else, it would be the teethbrush. (ba-dum-bump!)

"Even though it's Disney, I highly recommend it" I find that Disney movies are about the only movies that I'll spend my money on.

"I'm not much of a Trekkie . . . I have no trouble believing that. :-) You do realize that you're responsible if the insurance company doesn't pay, don't you?

"Um, The Green Berets is a comedy? Not that I have ever actually seen it, but it is not a comedy!" You've never seen "The Green Berets" and you call yourself an American? He probably finds "The Green Berets" to be a comedy for the same reasons that I consider "Top Gun" to be a comedy. So called realism on TV and in the movies is usually anything but realistic. Donovan's Reef

"For $350 bucks, I would have rinsed them off. 7 second rule applies, right? " Unfortunately, they started to disolve instantly. I remember the good old days when health insurance was only for hospital visits. When I was a youn'un, we go to the doctor and pay him with a chicken. Just kidding but my mother would just write a check for the $10 and we'd be done. Of course, my doctor then didn't have three nurses, a technician, office manager, bookkeeper, and x-ray tech. Now when my son is sick, a visit to the doctor can be $150 for a half hour in the waiting room and 15 minutes with the doctor.

Are you implying that my son is from West Virginia? He does have more than four teeth. Captain Petard to Enterprise. One to be hoisted.

This has nothing to do with Scouting but I figured that I'd throw it out here anyway. My son is going through his second stage of braces and needed to have four teeth pulled. The orthodontist wrote the extraction order, we went to see an oral surgeon and in half an hour, my son had four teeth in his pocket. Now the interesting part. I'm looking at the insurance company statement. The total bill for the procedure was $870. That's $870 for less than an hour in the office. Now for the interesting part. One of the items on the statement is a "Comprehensive exam" for $65. What exam? I was there. My son sat down, the dentist looked in his mouth and said, "that one, that one, that one, and that one." That was the exam. That's no exam. I called the insurance company and asked about it. They told me that it is a standard practice to charge for an exam in a situation like that. The insuance companies sit still for rip-offs like that but they refuse to pay for replacement meds if you drop your bottle of pills into the toilet (I did it a few years ago, there went $350). (This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

As Ben Grimm would say, "This is going nowhere fast!"

That would be "whole heartedly" and what would that "more" be?

That's about as cryptic as anything the Oracle ever uttered.

"I never liked Monty Python. " I fart in your general direction, you English pig-dog!

" For some reason, they had all new up to date stuff." NCAC is one of the largest councils with about 80,000 Scouts and 25,000 Scouters. They probably have a very quick turnover of material.

You're right but one would hope that a company that makes pants would be clever enough to increase the rise when they make pants for tall people. I can see the meeting in my mind's eye. BSA says, "oh yeah, we want some pants in 'long' as well." The manufacturer rep says, "Okay, we'll increase the inseam (already a mile) by 3 inches and the rise by two and a half inches." BSA says, "Rise? Wazzat?" "Oh, that the lenght from crotch to waist." BSA responds, "don't mess with that. Mentioning crotches might violate the morally straight part so we won't do that." I guess my two options are made-to-measure or keep wearing my unauthorized OD pants.

"And you don't see that as a fashion statement? " I see it as more of lack of style statement. A fashion statement isn't following everyone else. A fashion statement is when you do something that sets you apart. The first few guys to wear tuxes without ties were making a fashion statement, now not wearing a tie with your tux is just being like everyone else.