Fat Old Guy

Hops, that was sarcasm. I know that you're a young'un. I also know that you play football and baseball and are a military wannabe. You live in the land of the Illini and your email address is allstarcatcher##@######.com. The Army has even more uniforms. Dress Blues, Mess Dress, Dress Whites, and a few more that I can't think of off hand mostly because I was in the Navy. "Outside the box" Ha! Youngster, I'm so far outside of your box that you couldn't even see me if you could find the walls of the box. People don't survive in my business by coloring inside the lines.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

"You quote from an Institue of Heraldry. The stuff they compile is of a historical nature. It is not intended nor implied to reflect contempory views a couple of hundred years later." Actually, as I read it they also develop new stuff such as coats of arms for new units. They are also a more authorotative source than some random den leader on the internet. " It is also extremely unlikely that the wearing/position/orientation of the Flag on any units uniform would be left to the organizations commander." Ah .... see you're having problems with the language. The Army is one organization, the VFW is another, BSA is yet another and NCAA is one more. Since the squad leaders need to follow the directives passed down from the DA, the decision has been taken out of their hands. "Hence the introduction of "flat black painted, pin-on" emblems of rank. Cheap emblems which were easily removed should the situation require it. However, the Army prevailed!" " whos gonna have the time to set him/her aside for a few days or weeks to train them?" You don't have a lot of confidence in your soldiers. They wore BDUs in Basic Training, do you really think that they'd have forgotten how to put on button their pants? Just as an experiment, I went upstairs and dug out an old pair of BDU pants that I have but haven't worn in 20 years. Guess what! I could put them on with no trouble. Pretty strange. " The fact that the US Merchant Marine, or any other Maritime Organization, may or may not, have decided upon gray or any other color was more a reflection of the times! " Where did I say anything about the Merchant Marine? The Service Dress Khaki uniform was a naval uniform but I do apologize for assuming that you knew that. The SDK was eliminated in the early 70's. In response to your question, what makes you think that BSA is wearing the flag incorrectly?

"WOW... sorry, but if you could please think about this one." Sorry but the problem is on the sending end. A fundamental premise of communications is that if the receiver doesn't understand, the sender has a problem. Let's look at your sentence, "Besides, you wouldnt want us to wear a different uniform than what your troop wears would you?" We were discussing the Air Force and you use "us", a pronoun without an antecedent, the assumption that follows is that the antecedent is that which was being discussed immediately before. "The Army all wear the same uniform usually, even if in a computer lab" Hmmmmm. . . perhaps you should spend some time in the Army before you speak, the Army has many uniforms and many are wore by different people at the same time.

"First off Merlyn I don't care for your tone of "Atheiest army brat". None of my post were derogatory to you or your views." Most atheists are intent on explaining why, in as rude terms as possible, why you are foolish for believing in God. It is the bravado of the fightened man, they figure that if the yell loudly enough about how silly we are, that eventually they will convince themselves that they are right. Something that I find interesting about atheists is that they celebrate Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving. Sort of hipocritical, isn't it?

"My point: this boy needed to hear what was expected of him. I know he is used to getting his own way, but his own way was a poor reflection on the other Cubs, and it was offensive. " "The reson that your directive to the scout only lasted five minutes was that for him to behave was a choice you made and not a choice he made." Back in the good old days when parents could flog their kids, the child made the decision to behave because he knew that if he didn't he wouldn't be able to sit for a day. We long ago learned to deal with bad behavior by letting the parents deal with it. We've called parents to come get their kids at summer camp which is a four hour drive away from home. Usually the threat of calling Dad is enough but a couple times, Dad had to come get the kid. Back in Cub Scouts we had a kid who would do fun things like bend over and show his butt to people who came up to our table to buy popcorn. Dad and Mom weren't any help because they would try to "reason" with him, kinda like reasoning with Osama Bin Laden. Finally we took to sending him home from activities and his Dad quit as Cubmaster.

"Yes, true, FOG, but that costs the tax payer more money because they still have to be in some kind of uniform therefore the government has to spend money to research it, decide on it, make it, and provide it to them." They already have uniforms that are appropriate. "Besides, you wouldnt want us to wear a different uniform than what your troop wears would "Us?" When did you join the Air Force and what does that have to do with my Boy Scouts.

"For Meryln: Here are few more CO's that you can add to your list, from Scott AFB. " Is it the unit that is chartering the troop or is the squardron welfare organization or whatever you zoomies call the recreation and support organization?

"I told them that it can be done if they pay 4 years worth of registration and charter fees when they renew their unit's charter." Does this mean that if I start a new unit and pay for 25 years that my troop can be a 25 year unit? For some reason, letting units buy back years that they skipped seems a bit dishonest. If you let a unit lapse, it should be gone with no way to set the clock back.

Computer operators would be better served with slacks, a lightweight shirt and sneakers not boots and a heavy camoflauge suit.

> To F.O.Guy, ALL Branches of the Military (DOD) appear to have the > field of the Flag leading on Uniforms. I offer the following quote from the Army's Institute of Heraldry "This is the Department of Army's policy. Since the US Code does not address wear of the patch specifically, it is a decision that must be left to the discretion of the organization prescribing the wear. Wear of the patch either way is considered proper." What the Army does, the other services often follow. Look at the "US MARINES" tape that are on Marine Corps utilities. The DoD mandated that so they'd match everyone else. "Having some capability to camoflage one-self in the field, to blend into or confuse the background" And this explains why computer operators in Dayton, Ohio need camoflauge? "Hiding or camoflaging individual Sailors or Marines on a 1,000' long, 180' wide, 175' tall and 90,000+/- ton object in clear open waters should seem to be irrelevant." Actually, during WW II, the Service Dress Khaki uniform was replaced with a grey version for service in the North Atlantic because khaki would stand out against the grey of the ship.

Sorry, that's the Air Force, they really aren't "military." :-)

By Hollywood, I meant the movie and TV business, not the city itself.

Has anyone given thought to the fact that most actors are people that we wouldn't want as Scouters but yet we shovel money at them. Drunks, drug users, adulters, philanderers, homosexuals, draft dodgers, etc.. There are good people in Hollywood but they are few and far between.

Actually, it is the military that is out of step. In the early 90's the Army (not the DoD, just the Army) decided that the blue field should go forward. In previous years, the flag was worn with the blue field to the left, just look at pictures from WW II and Korea. The problem arises from an interpretion of the Flad Code. The Flag Code specifies that when the flag is displayed on a surface, the blue field goes to the viewers left. However, flag patches are not flags so they aren't covered by the code. There is some idea that the blue field should go forward to make it looks as if the flag is charging into battle. It is a silly thought but the military has many silly thoughts, for example everyone in camoflauge. Why does an aircraft mechanic need camoflauge? If he needs to hide, wouldn't he better off blending into the grey airplanes? Next, they'll be making sailors wear camoflauge on ships. The final answer is that since the flag patch is not a flag, each organization is allowed to chose the way it wants to wear it. (This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

If this goes to trial, the plantiffs will assert that the Boy Scouts should have erected a six foot high fence around the lake and that the church should have posted armed guards. After all, we cannot expect that youth will stay away from an off limits area.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Ethnic humor has no place in Scouting. Now that I've said that, "A Dago, a Mick and a Kike walk into a boat but there are only two parachutes . . . "

However, Mark, Venturing is supposed to be 100% run by the youth with the adults there only to advise. This woman and the other adults, if they were involved, didn't even give the youth a chance to buy in on the idea or say, "well, we don't want to rock the boat until we find a new place to roost" (how's that for a mixed metaphor?). The woman in question acted as if she was in charge when, in fact, she isn't.

Looking at the requirements, I wonder how many Scouts in my troop have really earned this badge. Patrol camping is almost non-existant in my troop and I've never seen a lightweight stove on a camp-out for anyone to cook for their patrol. The requirements don't say that the camping must be done with a troop only that it be under the stars on in a tent that the Scout has pitched. The requirement that the Scout pitch the tent also gives me pause. For one of the ranks, it says "helped pitch". Does that go for camping as well? Our troop tents are pretty good sized and usually require three boys to erect.

Nice lady, she screwed her crew without even telling them that she was doing it. I could respect the stand if she had approached the youth and asked them if they wanted to make such a statement.

Since Willie wrote for the masses, I'd be willing to bet that the phrase was in use long before Hamlet was penned. Unfortunately, I don't have access to all of my resources right now. However, I did find something interesting at http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/edu/2002/04/23/stories/2002042300030101.htm It claims that being "hoisted" by a petard was being blown off your feet because you didn't get away fast enough. It jives with Will in that it would be pretty funny back then to watch an "expert" get blasted off his feet because he miscalculated. I'll have to see if I can track down my engineer buddy and tell him this. The things we learn at 1 AM.

"extemporation"? Mr. Steele, I had been under the impression that you were an educated man. I have many dictionaries and none list "extemporation" but they do list "extemporization" which is an impromptu act. Perhaps that's what you meant but I did nothing in an impromtu manner. In any case, what you do with your knowledge is your decision. We are content to speculate and start rumors. As we all know, after a while, rumors become fact. You may interrupt the process with the injection of fact but, as I stated, that is your choice.

"(The Scout that I described, after being so denegrated by 'longbelt' Scouters has a very poor view of Scouting leadership, though he persists with our Troop). : Pardon my ignorance but "longbelt Scouters" is a new term by me. Does it refer to the Scouters with overly ample waistlines? BTW, it sounds as if this Scout should be at least a First Class. No need to advance beyond that but if he's done the work, he should receive the recognition.

Scoutldr, I had assumed that the man of steele had gotten the joke and was making his own joke. Where do I send your box of cigars for being the first person in 15 years to get that joke? Now for the pedantic part :-). A petard is not a spear, it is a small explosive device used for breaching walls (the origin of the word comes from the French for "fart"). As it was explained to me by a combat engineer, they were employed by throwing a rope over something and hoisting it into position, hopefully before it exploded. However, if you screwed up, the petard would pull you into the air and blow up with you dangling over it. I don't know how accurate that description is but it sounds good.

NJCubScouter, maybe you've hit the nail on the head. It could be that the Police Depts. said, "we like having Police Explorers and we don't want to have our program called Learning For Life because that sounds all new age and wussie and even though we have homosexual po-leese officers, they ain't wussie. Okay, so they do wear lace but that's a different story." I'm sure that companies like USX, and Eli Lilly didn't give a hoot what their Posts were called. Faced with this opposition, BSA folded like a cheap tent and created Venturing to increase the confusion level of both the public and Scouters.

"Although there are a FEW similarities between the Career Explorers and the Venturing Crews, the Venturing Crews are much more like the Explorer/Senior Scout programs of the 30s, 40s and 50s. " You seem to be forgetting or ignoring that there were regular Exploring posts that had nothing to do with careers in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. The web site that you referenced states, "This was pretty much a name change, as the Venturing program was almost identical to the pre-1998 Exploring program in most ways." BTW, Career Awareness Exploring was a totally different animal than Exploring. "it only makes sense that they would keep the similar name to what they have been known as since 1982. " 82 was the creation of Career Awareness Exploring, Career Exploring posts predated that by decades. (This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)