allangr1024

To me, the key to the project is the role of the manager of the project (the eagle candidate). In my college management classes, they outlined several roles that a manager takes on, including: Staffing Planning Directing Coordinating Controling I think a good scoutmaster can lead the scout in each of these areas, and see that he functions properly in each one of them. In project management, you start with a simple concise statement of the project. I have my scouts do this, and at the end I ask "Did THIS get done?" I like the Eagle project Planning Guide (http://home.flash.net/~smithrc/eagleprj.htm) because it has some good basic project management information in it. I usually tell my scout to find a project that will take 10 teenagers 6 to 8 hours to complete. I then tell him I expect to see 20 hours of work done by my scout up front. I want to see plans, supply lists, financial sources, lists of prospective workers, maps, drawings, diagrams, pictures. I even ask him to put together a list of prospective workers (troop members, school mates, youth group members, adult volunteers) and call to personnaly ask for their help in the project. I dont mind being the quality control for my scouts eagle projects. After all, my signature is required for this to happen. It is also helpful to know the thoughts of the district advancement chair on the bar they set. The project goes forward after they give their approval. I have not found one yet who will not share his philosophy on the subject.

"This is the patrol that has been making phone calls for a month now recruiting heavily in the Webelos boys planning on considering us for the upcoming year. 39 of them potentially could join and triple our numbers once again. " I have not heard of having the boys make recruiting calls to Webelos. The thing that our district director says is to go to their meetings and invite them to go camping at Webelos Woods with us in the fall. I am not even sure we could get a list of Webelos to call. How does this work where you are?

"If Obama fails, there won't be a nation to rebuild." What kind of crazy statement is this. I think someone took the stuff about Obama being the Messiah a bit too literally. As for Bush being the one to start socialism in this country, I seem to remember that his argument was that the government should buy the bad mortgage debt, that it should restructure the debt, and if anyone defaulted on a mortgage, at least the properties could be sold to recover the money, and he thought that 95 percent of the mortgages would be repaid, and the government would recover the money. His error was that he signed a 400 page bill without reading it, or he did not care at that point, that what he asked congress for was not what they gave him. And the bailout did not go to buying bad paper, but directly to what the Democrats always said they hated: Corporate welfare. Bush also did not try to reign in the stupid mortgage policies of Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. He did not try to stop Barney Franks interferance in the mortgage business. He should have cried a warning from the rooftops. He had spent all his political capital on the war on terrorism, and had none left for domestic problems. He kept us safe from killers abroud, but not from short sighted idiots at home. Do we hope Obama fails? I hope the president learns that the country will do better if the hand of government is kept out of the lives of people and businesses as much as possible. Will that happen? Probably not, but I can hope. Am I a traitor? Then I guess they will come take me away in the night any time now.

Being a scoutmaster for a year now, my heart does go out to this guy. They bearly teach you how to run a troop in SM training, and that is through videos from the BSA that more or less show you what one may look like. I have not seen anything about nature requirements, and have seen no SM training course covering this. I struggled with this stuff when I was a scout, and I am not much better now. I agree that the museum idea is a weak one. These requirements scream "Get the scouts into the woods." For me, if a scout comes back with anything from an animal (sighting, tracks, droppings, food) I will gladly accept that. The plants are harder. I have had the boys bring back samples of leaves and grass, and had them look them up in local plant and shrubbs books. Im no expert, and not that many scouters I meet are either. It is a game with a purpose, after all.

I have two black scouts in my troop, and have found out the hard way that not only is the "N" word offensive, but simply calling them "boy" causes trouble. I, as a white adult, never thought of this, especially one who grew up in the deep south and heard adults say this of all the kids. I was as likely to get a "Boy, go do this" or "Boy, get a brain" as any other, white or black. But blacks really dont like that. When one of our dads came on a campout, and sait this to one of our black scouts, wow, what a mess. I don't think the dad ment it as a racial slur, but there you go. I hate it that sometimes I have to walk on eggshells with my words, but I figure "why cause a problem where one does not exist." I would interview the "alleged" offending scout , and the offended scout, and determine if a racial slur was intended, and warn the speaker. I would assure the black scout that he is a valued member of troop, and give a SM minute sometime on a black hero as a role model.

You know, I read the book and saw the movie. The book was more of a "stages of life" kind of book, following the young scoutmaster from his twenties into his old age, and seeing his choices of life; single life, marriage and family, carreer, and friendships as they are affected by his passion: scouting. In the first chapter he is looking back over his life, both wondering if he went in the right direction and longing to do it all again. As I ponder the question of does the movie portray normal scouting, I have to remind myself of two things. One is that scouting now is very different from in the beginning. The second is that from unit to unit, in whatever era it was, scouting was different because of the different personalities of the unit leaders, their attitudes, vision and skills. As a boy I was in two troops, one in Memphis in 1969, and after a move, in northern Louisiana from 1971 to 1973. All I remember of the first troop was a campout and hike at the Shiloh civil war battle field, and that I got tenderfoot pretty quickly. Of the second I had a gruff scoutmaster whose son held the SPL job for years. I rose to Life scout, was a patrol leader, went to Philmont in 1972, won a tent pitching event at a council camporee (remember when everyone slept in old army pup tents), and left the troop at 16 when my job at Mcdonalds prohibited me from going any more. That year the SM resigned and the troop folded. I have compared notes with other scouters who where in troops in the sixties and seventies, and I come up with very different pictures of life as a scout. Our troop was not very organized, and advancement was sporatic, and we never produced and Eagle scout. Other troops were large, run as machines, had lots of camping enthusiasts or ex military men (height of the Vietnam war, and all) and produced lots of Eagle scouts. I thing the same thing happens today. I think I know what the ideal troop looks like, but the normal one is harder to imagine.

AnniePoo, I liked this article my Mike Rowe. I liked the way he warns that it is lonely at the peak. The only contention I have with it is that he seems to be saying that it is a failure to not get Eagle. The goal of Scouting is NOT to get a boy to Eagle rank. It is to help him grow, make good decisions, enjoy the outdoors, and have fun doing these things. I think most everyone can excell at something. For many, that something may not be scouting related, but you can still exalt in an accomplishment. If a boy comes to me and says he wants to be the first string quarterback, and he has to lay scouting down to do that, I will encourage him to give it a shot. I think the failure is to have set no goal, and tried nothing, and wasted time, and achieved nothing.

Asm, I have never liked the idea of withholding a drivers licence until a kid eagles, myself. This is a ploy by parents to get their kid to do something. I have always thought that a boy should do what he wants, and get awards that he wants. Not every ball player will be a pitcher, or a quarterback, but I have seen parents push their kids to excell in sports beyond their interests. It is the same with Ealge Scout. Eagle is a great goal, but it comes with a cost. The scout must expend the time and effort to earn the Eagle rank. A parent can encourage to a point, and then it becomes nagging. I do not want a boys momories of scouting to be "it was a drag because my parents nagged me into doing it when I did not want to." I was tempted to do this with my guys, and it did not work. So I let them decide. One dropped out at sixteen, the next did the same, but came back to finish Eagle at 17, and the third dropped at 15. Each gave it at least 3 years, and that is about all I can ask. Each knows about camping, scout craft (although they probably need to take up a scout book for a bit if I really pressed them), and I hope remember the time with fondness. Now, as SM, I find a different role. I look over my list of upper ranked boys, and I call them aside every few weeks (I call it a Mini scoutmaster conference) and go over their advancement goals, and steps to meet them. I usually see some merit badge earning for a while after this. In college I studied a subject called Management By Objectives, and these principles seem to be usefull in this setting. Most boys do not set goals on their own, or think of how to take steps to meet them. Besides cooking, this might be one of those skills started in scouting that will do them some good in their adults lives.

In my town, one of the large nondenominational churches runs a royal rangers program. They will not let the BSA form a pack or troop, and settled on RR because they felt the Bible training was the most valuable part of the organization. I looked at it from the outside, and saw many similarities with the BSA program, with specific sunday school type activities added. This unit was run by the youth pastor, with church volunteers. I could not tell if there was a "boy led" ethic involved. One guy told me that the church had a big problem with Morman units, Islamic units, and just plain secular units in the BSA. He said the church wanted a much more distinctly Christian program like what the RR represents. On a church level I can see that, but I also think the attitude was shortsighted, since volunteers from his church to the BSA would surely impact the world the way his church envisions. A BSA program could be an extension of a churchs ministry very well. To me, the scout oath is a rewording of Jesus' greatest commandment "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love you neighbor as you love yourself."

Joe, Your discipline problem can be solved in a couple of ways, and it should involve an adult. You should take no action against a disruptive scout. You would have to recruit an ASM to watch the meeting from the back of the room. Arrange this before the meeting. Then, if you see a situation occurring, signal the ASM, and he should tap the boy on the shoulder quietly, and they can have a private discussion in the hallway. Better yet, arrange for the adult to have a length of rope on hand. When he calls the boy out, he will have the boy review the required knots, as well as some special knots, perhaps those found in the pioneering merit badge book. That way, you remove an irritation, and give some one on one instruction at the same time. I applaud you for your diligence in taking up the responsibility of running the meeting. Some of my SPL's never did do more than an opening flag ceremony and some announcements. We are working on that. As for the meeting plans coordinated with the camping event, be open do doing a variety of things. Sometimes, the meeting instruction can nicely correspond to the monthly outing, and sometimes you will do something else. There is no correct answer, and the needs of the troop will change. But you are on the right track.

In our troop we try to get the parents to come in to teach a merit badge, something they have an interest in. We tell them, only a few weeks commitment until the badge is done. I think this can hook parents in to being more active. Just give them a way out if they need it.

If you mean a patrol camping on its own, without adults, I would probably do something like this: Book two or three campsites at the council camp. Get them as far away from one another as possible. Mabey a mile apart. Put one patrol in one campsite and one in another. (Expand this for as many patrols as you take with you). The adults camp together at the farthest campsite. Give the patrol leaders a radio and tell them to call only in an emergency. Inspect the patrol leaders menu, work crew assignments, tent arrangements, campfire program plans, and program plans in advance. Plan to visit each patrol once each day to inspect the camp and make sure safety concerns are followed. Then the adults go to the adult camp and the patrols go to the patrol camps to do their things. In this way, the patrols camp alone, the patrol leaders lead, and the adults are around just in case.

You mentioned a new scoutmaster. That could explain a lot. How did the transition go? How long from the time the old SM left to the time the new one came on board. I took over as SM after a period of months in which the old SM was absent (he was promoted and no longer had time for it). It took its toll. I wonder if these guys have been given any guidance other than Form a new older scout patrol. The new SM really needs to get these guys doing something, high adventure or troop leadership projects or training of younger boys, and I bet they would like to camp on their own.

I agree with Lisa that the quality of the character of our scouts seems to be slipping a bit. But we have the requirements spelled out for us in the book, and we are not allowed to add to or take away from those requirements. The kids do this many merit badges, and serv in a POR for this long, and do this many service hours. There is no requirement to prove your "Character" in any way. Now, if some kid has a mediocre POR, or does a poor job of doing filling the position, then we must look at the SM and staff as to why we let someone slide. In this, I have some control, since I am the one to sign off on the requirement. If the kid is a librarian, did I give him an proper job description, and did I examine the quality of the job he did, and did I suggest ways he could improve, and did I examine those. I put the "onus" back on the adult leaders who let things slide. As to character, the only thing we have to sign off is the Scout Spirit requirement. That is the most subjective of them all. I suppose if a SM wants to he could use this to keep the kid from advancing until he is satisfied. But then, he needs to let the kid know what he must do, and examine the results, and suggest ways to improve on character qualities, and follow up to see if the kid did them, ect. I have not yet had to do it, but does anyone know what would happen if a kid did his 4 to 6 months as a PL, and did not lead very well, and did not help his patrol, and caused a bunch of headaches for the SM; could a SM tell him to do the job over for another 4 to 6 months. I have had a kid who was elected as PL, and then was an absentee during football season. Little leadership there, and not much chance of me coaching him. I am pondering not giving him his requirement signoff.

I see two groups represented here: boys who drop out but remain registered, and boys who drop out and do not re-register. Of the first group, boys 15 or under may leave for other activities such as sports or other youth programs (4H, ROTC, marching band, church youth group) and they may come back when the season is over for the other program. Boys over 15 may come back to finish Eagle rank before their 18th birthday, eyeing college admissions, scholarships, and higher ranks in military service, where Eagle would be helpful. I think this group would consist of boys very active at age 13, and got to star or life rank. Of the second group, I think these are boys who never took to scouting, and left when their parents said they could. I think these are the most unlikely to return. I have 3 boys, 21, 19, and 16. The first dropped out at 16 and never came back. The second droped out at 16, but came back at 17 and earned Eagle on the day before he turned 18. The third droped out, I did not register him again, and he is asking if it would be a good idea to come back and get Eagle, for Scholarships for college. Each of my kids gave it 3 to 4 years, and I did scouting with them. I would not keep them in if they did not want to be there. I have fond memories of scouting as a kid, and I want them to remember scouting as a fun thing, not a drag. I bet that if a scoutmaster talked to the boys who are dropped out, from both groups, he may persuade some to come back. It depends on whether he had good repore with them then, and on their goals for the future.

Our council did last year for camporee. It seemed like the right hand might not have known what the left hand was doing. Say, how do you email a signed signature form? Do you use a scanner, and do all your adults have scanners they can use after they sign the forms? We have to fax ours. We cannot do it from our troop meetings (no internet), but next day is ok.

On our last backpacking trip, I used info from the site "www.freezerbagcooking.com" to prepare my menu for my evening meal. It turned out just fine, althought some of the recipies called for stuff I could not find at my local Wal Mart, and had to find substitutes for. On that web site, they call for combining all the ingredients in a heavy freezer bag, not a sandwitch bag, and pouring boiled water from a kettle into the freezer bag. You let the meal cool for 20 to 30 minutes; during which the water soaks into the rice or noodles, and then pour it in a bowl, or eat it out of the freezer bag. I was happy with the results, althought the recipies made enough for two people. I was happy with the results. The problem with eggs is that you usually were taught to put the mixed eggs into a bag and put that into a pot of boiling water. I learned to do this with a paper bag. I would not do it with a plastic bag, since it could melt into your meal. I wonder if you put the mixed eggs into a freezer bag and put it into a pot of water that boiled and was taken off the stove, if it would be better. I will have to try that this weekend.

I asked this question once, to find that we do not have a unit commissioner assigned to our troop, because our district cannot fill the unit commissioner positions. No one volunteers. We only got visits from the Friends of Scouting guy and the OA guy, when it was the season. I ended up calling the district professional, the District Director, to get stuff. I found that in this case, the squeeky wheel gets the oil. If you never go seek out the help, and keep calling until you get a response, you will not have any. I could use help with recruiting, getting into schools, getting the word out, finding adult volunteers, setting up fund raisers, finding Webelos den leaders to send den chiefs to, finding different camping and hiking opportunities, ect. I had an expectation that council and district people would be there. Boy did I learn the hard way. I have to do all this myself.

Our troop has a web site, mainly for outside visitors, and then a Yahoo Groups site that all our adults are registered in. The message board in the Yahoo Groups site will let you post messages to the group, and these messages are then emailed to all the members of the Group. I put announcements and SM minutes there, and store documents like tour permits in the Files section. All the adults know to look there for postings, and they also get the emails, although these usually come a day later. It is their fault if they do not log on and read the stuff. In general, I would say that most do get the message this way if they are on line at all.

I signed up to be a MB councilor for Environmental Science, mainly to help scouts in our troop get the badge. Since this one requires boys to do stuff outside in the field, I never had any of our scouts finish. (they took the badge later on at summer camp). I have never been contacted by any scouts outside the troop. Should the council maintain the MBC list and give out my name and phone number to interested parties? I am not sure how that works. I have never gotten a call.

"Is it normal to have parents (one or both) along on a camping trip who are not part of troop leadership? I don't know if it happens every camping trip in the troop I'm involved with, but it is happening this month." It is a troop by troop decision about parents camping. I would never tell a parent they can not come. But I would tell them they must not interfere. I in my troop have two issues. First is with parents not registered as adult scouters. They usually come once or twice, and either stop camping, convinced the troop will care for their kid just fine, or they join as adult scouters. The second issue is with adult scouters with boys in the troop. They (and I was in this boat before my son turned 18) will try to see to it that the kid participates and is a well behaved angel. They will also try to minipulate the schedule so the advancement stuff their kid needs is what we do next. And, they try to "Help" the son do the chores and learn the outdoor skills. I have to pull these people back, and get them to work with another patrol that their is not in. I have to tell them "Let the quartermaster unload the trailer...Let the grubmaster cook the pancakes....let the tenderfoot put up the tent....let the hiking master pick the correct trail for the hike." Handling parents is not what I read about in the training materieals. It should be covered. I think I like the idea of putting a chair out for visitors to sit in (and stay put in), but I think I would have to do that for the adult scouters as well. When I was a kid (around 1972) we had an SM and mayby an ASM go camping. But not always. When they came out with the 2 deep leadership rules, which saved the BSA from being sued into oblivion, troops needed more registered leaders in a pool to cover the 2 deep leadership requirements for every activity. So if we take five, ten, fifteen registered adults, we achieve the goal of preventing child abuse, but open up other precedural problems. It opens a troop up to being a merit badge mill, since you will find something for those adults to do like tach a merit badge. 2-Deep and merit badges done in troop meetings are the biggest changes from when I was a kid.

"Specific ideas of outings, ideas, (new) songs, skits, crafts, projects, fundraisers, etc. would be tremendously useful to me and other pack members who are newbies to scouting. " Quoted from above. As a scoutmaster with a years experience, I can ditto the above statement. I have been through the training from the 90's, including woodbadge (for the 20th century), and I have been to the scoutmaster specific training now. What do I need? Program ideas, where to go backpacking, where to go canoeing, how do I meet the current webelos den leaders to establish a troop to pack relationship, how to do fundraisers, and how can we do labor based fundraisers instead of sales based fundraisers, how do I find climbing instructors and shooting instructors if our tiny troop has none, how to get patrol method working in a troop that never really practiced it, how to get into the schools to do recruiting, ect. I asked about our unit commissioner (I think this is what he is called; the front line contact between the unit and the district), and was told the district had not filled the position because no one would volunteer for the job. I usually call the district director with problems, mainly because he is in the scout office. So, I need practical advice. BTW, it would be nice to have open discussion times in roundtable with other scoutmasters, but either time does not permit, or the guys who come do not speak up. Oh well.

I will probably buy a new uniform, and wear it every other week to be an example. But, I will let the boys wear any official uniform to troop meetings. I was told by someone unoffically at round table that the BSA wants you to wear a whole official uniform from any given period. Therefore, wear the new shirt with the new pants, or wear the old shirt with the old pants. But I have been correct by a district director. You can wear a new shirt with a pair of old pants. They do not care. I am not sure about just bying the shoulder bars. I think that is part of the shirt. I would not take the new shirt buttons and sew them on an old shirt. I consider the sholder bars the same way. They are part of the shirt. If I am wrong about that, lets hear from an official BSA publication.

I will probably buy a new uniform, and wear it every other week to be an example. But, I will let the boys wear any official uniform to troop meetings. I was told by someone unoffically at round table that the BSA wants you to wear a whole official uniform from any given period. Therefore, wear the new shirt with the new pants, or wear the old shirt with the old pants. But I have been correct by a district director. You can wear a new shirt with a pair of old pants. They do not care. I am not sure about just bying the shoulder bars. I think that is part of the shirt. I would not take the new shirt buttons and sew them on an old shirt. I consider the sholder bars the same way. They are part of the shirt. If I am wrong about that, lets hear from an official BSA publication.

I can see two reasons for philmont to do this. The first is that many campers will not use tree hugger straps and will damage the trees by tying bare ropes to them. The second is that you must often position your tents to discourage the local bear and other wildlife population. Hammock campers often must be separated due to locations of suitable trees for hammock use. When we went to Philmont in 2005, the ranger taught us to clump the tents together so a bear would percieve them as being a big massive thing, to be avoided. Not going to happen with a hammock camper.