evry

I would like to find out where your PLC meets for their monthly meetings. Is it at the same place that the troop meets? Is it the SPL's decision? Is it the Scoutmaster's decision? Does the Scoutmaster even have to be present? Can the PLC have a meeting on a conference call? In general, how should the "boy led" PLC function and coordinate the meetings with the Scoutmaster?

This post is so lame! Why do people get upset just because others are speaking a language that they cannot understand? It reminds me of a time when I was speaking to my brother in Greek about some family matters at a previous job. My boss comes over to us and reprimands us for speaking a foreign language. My brother, without missing a beat, responded "but we are talking about you and we don't want you to understand what we are saying." Trust me....we aren't talking about you....we are speaking in our native tongue because it's what comes natural to us!

I'm a MB Counselor for Personal Management. We have a Scout in the same situation as the one you describe. Last November, he approached me and said that he still needs his Personal Management MB. I told him that he should especially look at the 13 week requirement and get that started ASAP. For the last 4 months, he has been telling me that he will send all the items he prepared, but I haven't seen anything yet. I plan to meet up with him this Saturday, and he expects me to sign off, but I will need to see that ALL requirements were completed. I assume that he will provide me with a Budget and Actual Income/Expenses tracking for at least 13 weeks. If he does, I will not challenge him on whether it was prepared the night before (A Scout is trustworthy). If he shows me something that halfway meets the requirement (eg. an income and expense ledger without a budget) I will have a hard time accepting it. I will have to discuss with him and only when I am satisfied that he really understands what budgeting and forecasting means I will sign off. I must be satisfied in my mind that he has learned the material. Perhaps that is giving him some slack since he is aging out. On the other hand, if a younger Scout came to me and provided the same, I would ask him to go back and forecast a budget since he would have the time to complete it properly.

Thanks all...it probably is moot since they will be doing another hike after they join. the responses raise some interesting questions. Camping nights for Camping MB....wow!....I could see how you would require all the camping nights to be done after he gets his blue card OK'd by the Scoutmaster, but our MB Counselors allow the Scout to use any camping nights since joining to accumulate the 20. The second part of my original inquiry was not addressed. Can a Star Scout teach a younger Scout how to orient a map using the EDGE method? So a Star teaches the crossover webelo (before he crosses over) and then once the webelo crosses over and becomes a Scout, he gets an A. Scoutmaster to check him on the requirement. The Star Scout should get credit for the EDGE method...right?

There are others that the Scout Shops carry. I had a kid from South Africa that spoke Afrikaans, and the Scout Shop had it available. It is a little more exprensive than Francais or Espanol since there are fewer made.

I expected to hear a "no" but surprised to read the opinion that a 5-mile hike is too much for a Crossover Scout (11 year old)! I would think that a 5 mile hike is the ideal introduction to Boy Scouts.

There will be several Webelos from a local Pack crossing over on March 15 into our Troop. On the previous Saturday (March 12), the troop is going on a 5 mile hike, and the troop has invited the Webelos along. My question to all the knowlegeable Scouters is: Can these Webelos use this 5 mile hike for the 2nd Class requirement 1(a) and (b)? 1.a. Demonstrate how a compass works and how to orient a map. Explain what map symbols mean. b. Using a compass and a map together, take a five-mile hike (or 10 miles by bike) approved by your adult leader and your parent or guardian. I didn't find anywhere where it says that thse activities must be done while they are "officially" Boy Scouts. Also, can a Star rank teach one of these Webelos the requirement 1(a) for his Life rank EDGE requirement?

I just saw at meritbadge.org that they added a possible EDGE method training requirement. Besides the 3 2nd Class and 3 1st Class EDGE possibilities, it now shows a 7th which is: g. Three requirements from one of the Eagle-required merit badges, as approved by your unit leader. Can anbody verify that that is official.

Twocubdad....you hit the nail on the head. It is as your describe. To deny this particular Scout his rank at this time would be seen as picking on the Scout for the actions of his dad, and of all the leaders sitting at the BOR, I was certainly not going to be the one to do that. There is no question in my mind that the troop is completely in total disarray. Picture this: The other two Committee Members sitting in the BOR were the Committee Chairman (a member of the old guard who had his son Eagle from the troop in the early 90's) and the Advancement Chairman (his son is presently in the troop). Both of them are very aware of everything that occurred and have expressed displeasure in private at the way the rogue dad is acting. However, they don't want to rock the boat and don't want any confrontations, so they remain silent. Additionally, the Scoutmaster came and sat in during the BOR to "observe." He didn't ask any questions etc. The Scoutmaster is also part of the old guard and he is actually the founder of the Chartering Organization that sponsors the troop. Whether the Committee decides on the direction that they want the troop to take, the Scoutmaster will still do it his way because he is the "owner" of the troop. In this instance, the Committee directed the ASM dad to ask the Scouts whether they wanted the Fly Fishing MB Clinic. When the dad responded that the Scouts requested it over a year ago and he was just setting it up as the Scouts had requested, the Scoutmaster jumps in and says that he approves of the MB Clinic and in essence blasts me for raising an objection. I have only been with the troop for 18 months and I handle the Membership. Besides the three of us, there are probably 2-3 other parents/adults that are truly involved in the Committee. This is from a roster of 45 registered adults! (yes...the old guard have their wives and sons as registered adults even though we have never met or seen them). There is nobody that will confront the Scoutmaster out of deference and respect, and everyone accepts the fact that he started the CO that in effect sponsors the troop etc. You may advise that this should be taken up with District and the Unit Commissioner, but I'll give you one more bit of info. Another of the old guard is very well known in the District and in the Council. He is also a powerful leader in the community. He is a Unit Commissioner himself (for other troops in the District), but he has so much influence that the only thing that District would ever tell him would be that they heard that there was a problem with the troop, and he would probably respond with something like..."Yes...I know, but we are on top of the situation." That is all that is going to happen! One of the ASMs has stepped up and has agreed with me, and is going to put a plan in place to get the troop back in shape. I hope that he is successful and I will support him. If not, I'll visit some other troops in the area with my son and find one that is more suitable. Sorry for tiring you guys out with our troop's issues. I will tell you however...this is the sort of politics and adult control that keeps the scouting program from flourishing to what it should be. BTW, although we have 42 registered Scouts (25 active), we only have 5 active Scouts that are 14+ years old. Tells you something or is that normal?

RememberSchiff...I did approve him for rank as did the other members of the BOR. Why? Because he met the requirements that are established for that rank. He received the required merit badges, he fulfilled his service hours, the Scoutmaster signed off on his Scout Spirit, and even if he did not perform his POR as Patrol Leader, he had the "backup" POR of Bugler which he performed at a couple of outings. I'm not going to deny rank to a 12 year old that believes he accomplished the objectives put out to him just because I feel that the way he accomplished them was wrong.

It is sad! I sat on this Scout's BOR for Star yesterday (4 months + 2 days from his 1st Class BOR). There's no doubt...the boy is very bright and very capable, but has very little confidence. BTW, he just turned 12! I asked him which has been his favority activity that he has done since he joined the troop? His answer was a canoe trip that he took on 8/14 and on which he was on the canoe with his dad. Then, he also added that he enjoyed a Merit Badge Clinic that he attended this last weekend. I asked him what he enjoyed about the MB Clinic and he says: "It was fun to learn new things. I was with XXXXX.....(pause)...no he wasn't there....(pause)...anyway, there were two other Scouts from the troop there too!" He couldn't even remember the names of the Scouts....they had been at summer camp with him for a whole week! It just seemed that his whole scouting experience (so far) is a big blur! He has attended summer camp, at least 5 campouts, several hiking trips and yet, the activities that he most enjoyed were the ones that were more recent in his mind! For his POR, he has been PL (in title only) and Bugler. I noticed that his dad had written in his handbook....PL, Bugler, Librarian, Scribe. Asked what he has accomplished as PL...he says: "There were some things that were hard and some things that were easy." Question: What did you find was hard to do? Answer: "It was hard to get the others to attend the meetings." Question: What did you do to try to get them to attend? Answer: "I sent them ...(long pause and stare)...next time I'm the Patrol Leader I will call the others and remind them to come to the meetings." I hope that this is not common...it is sad when you see a child being pressured by his parent to the point of not having a childhood and losing his freedom to develop his own personality.

I wasn't going to say anything more on this, but I just got an e-mail that I wanted to share to show how far a rogue parent can go. One of the ASMs suggested a different program structure in order to have true Patrols and a functioning PLC. The rogue parent's son is presently a "Patrol Leader"....of course in title only. We are having elections for new SPL and PLs tonight. Here is what the parent suggests: "One idea regarding the elections tonight may be to not have them since the leaders in place now really did not get to lead. I know that the SPL may want to step down, but the patrol leaders could stay in place and we could just elect a new senior patrol leader if the present SPL does not want to commit to another 6 months." Agggggggghhhhhhhh.......my sanity is quickly vanishing!

Thanks all...good sound advice! It is easier said than done to ignore this parent and concentrate on my son's scouting experience. Beavah hit the nail on the head when he said that the parent's actions are "indirectly compromising da program for other boys in small ways." As Thomas54 suggested, I'll float up and down on this one and let the rest of the year show me whether my son is having fun and whether he wants to continue with this troop or not. By early next year, it'll be time to reevaluate.

Your thoughts on the subject please. Background: We have a parent (also an Assistant Scoutmaster) who has made it clear that his son intends to earn all the available merit badges. This is a parent (he is an Eagle) that signed off on all the rank requirements for his son and had another leader who is a Committee Member sign off on the Scoutmaster Conference and Scout spirit for the ranks. He then asked for a BOR for his son, and the BOR was at a predicament and decided that they could not really do anything but accept it as a fait accomplis. Since then, the parent has signed off as Merit Badge Counselor for 5 of the son's merit badges. The Committee made it clear to the parent that this has to stop, so the parent enlisted friends/acquaintances of his to sign up as MB Counselors, and uses them to have the son complete an average of 3-4 merit badges per month. During a recent Committee Meeting, he mentioned that he had enlisted a MB Counselor for Fly Fishing to teach the troop Fly Fishing and would need one of the regular weekly meetings and two Sundays to complete the merit badge. I raised an objection to having a merit badge taught during a regular troop meeting since it would force the Scouts who have no interest in Fly Fishing to sit through the class. The parent was asked whether it could be scheduled at another time. The answer was that his son had Soccer and other activities scheduled. Long debate short...it was agreed that we would allow the Scouts to decide whether they wanted to have this class during their meeting. At the following meeting, the parent took over (I assume in his A. Scoutmaster role) and announced the upcoming activities (MB Clinics that were available through Merit Badge University) as well as the Fly Fishing clinic. He then followed it up with an e-mail to the troop stating that "we're going to have a Fly Fishing MB Clinic on this date." I responded to the e-mail and copied only the Committee Members asking him why he announced this clinic without asking the Scouts beforehand as was agreed upon. His answer was that the Scouts themselves had requested him to schedule a Fly Fishing MB Clinic last year during a campout so he was following the wishes of the Scouts. The Scoutmaster who has been Scoutmaster for the last 30+ years finally got involved and stated that he approves of the merit badge clinic since it will expose the Scouts to something that is usually not available, and since there is no other activity planned for that troop meeting date it would not affect any plans. (We are talking about mid-October). The troop is not affiliated with any church etc. The Chartering Org is a non-profit set up by the older leaders in the troop (old guard) in order to sponsor the troop. (convenient..eh?) When my son first joined and I did not yet understand the program, I had no objection to merit badge clinics etc. However, I now feel that the merit badge program is intended to be an Adult-Scout interaction outside the setting of a classroom type environment where the MB Counselor guides and counsels the Scouts...he doesn't teach! I have no problem with other Scouts attending the clinics, but there is something that bothers me when a clinic is scheduled during a time when Scouts should be working on troop business. The Patrol System is non-existent in our troop. The Scoutmaster does not get involved in directing the Scouts to specific MB Counselors, so the Scouts find the MB Counselors that they want from a list and go to them directly. Maybe I have gotten it all wrong and should agree with "experienced" leaders since this is the way it's always been done in "our troop". Where do I go from here? Should I just let it ride? Is it time to find another troop for my son that follows my view of what scouting is all about? My son wants to remain with his friends, but I know that he will have a better scouting experience elsewhere. Hard Decision! To get an idea of the type of "helicopter" parent we are talking about (always pushing his son)...this is a list of the merit badges currently being worked on....he expects to finish them by end of October...I'm sure a new list with as many will be generated then! Farm Mechanics Personal Fitness Citizenship in the Nation Bugling Gardening Orienteering Communications Motorboating Reading Pets Foresty Fishing Fly Fishing Personal Management

can I add some? If you know how many boxes of popcorn your son sold and your son has no clue, you are a helicopter parent. If you carry your son's knife during outings, you might be a helicopter parent. If your son looks at you for approval when deciding whether he is ready for a Scoutmaster conference, you might be a helicopter parent. If you run in the infield of a track next to your son pushing him on while he is running the mile for his Personal Fitness MB, you might be a helicopter parent. If you highlight the "important" sections of a merit badge pamphlet, you might be a helicopter parent. keep them coming!

I would definitely count Swimming as an approved sport. I would even count taking part in orienteering as part of an orienteering team as a sport!

Another possibility regarding the multiple entries found is that a person registered as a user, and then they forgot that they had registered and then registered again. Now the system would have two separate entries for the same person. this could be fixed by not allowing a second registration for someone that has the same identical fields in the system.

Moosetracker....by that, I meant that if you just put the first and last name of the person without putting in the BSA ID, there will be multiple listings. An example: My wife (very unique name that is impossible to be duplicative) registered and took the Youth Protection Training. Afterwards, when she got her BSA ID, I went in and linked her user account with the BSA ID. If I validate the training using the BSA ID, she comes up as having completed the training. If I search using her first and last name, the system tells me that there are multiple listings. there is no way that anyone would have the same name as my wife and therfore, I assume that by inputing the BSA ID at a later date, the system created two separate entries.....one with the ID and one without. Maybe others can verify this?

I'm sure everyone is aware of the Youth Protection Training requirements for Adults that became effective on June 1. I'm sure most of you are also aware of the MyScouting site where the online training is available and where registered Scouters can validate training. I'm starting this thread for Scouters to list glitches they have noticed in the database system, in the hopes that the BSA can fix before the Rechartering starts and packages are rejected for Scouters not having their training. 1. If you use the Search function in the Training Validation, and input the BSA ID, it will only show that person if he has linked his ID to his username in MyScouting. Suggestion: Automatically link BSA ID numbers to Scouters in the system. 2. At the district level, they were able to search the database by name, and produced a list of the Scouters that had not taken the training. If the input was made using the "official" name in the records (ie. Michael) and the user registered his MyScouting account as Mike, the system would not match the two. Suggestion: In addition to name search, Districts should also do a BSA ID search. Also, make the Validation Search available with * searches etc. where you can input part of the name or first initial. 3. An additional issue in regards to 2 above, is that if there are two Scouters (one Senior and one Junior) with the same name, a search by name would reveal that the training had been accomplished even if only one of the Scouters had completed it. Suggestion: Again, the match with the BSA ID is key. 4. In the Training Validation search, if you do an advanced search and input the first and last name, Scouters who have linked their BSA ID would have two records in the system and therefore, the system would ask you to narrow the search down since more than one record was found. Of course, you cannot narrow it down because it's the same person. Suggestion: Fix the duplication....or give the user a choice of all the persons that fit the criteria and let the user pick which one is the one he is searching for. 5. In the Training Validation search, the City and State fields in the advanced search appear to not be populated and if you search using these fields, the system doesn't find any records. Suggestion: Populate the database with the additional fields. Let's keep this going....perhaps we could gather a list and submit to national to fix before the crush of the Rechartering comes and packages are rejected.

Perhaps "nonsense" is a strong word. Any kind of religious service is by its very nature is not going to be voluntary. When a leader directs a Scout (the Chaplain's aide) to perform a service and read a sermon, it is incumbent that all the Scouts and leaders attend that service. There is peer pressure and there is no question that a Scout will succumb to this and will want to fit in, and therefore, he will not back off and say he will not attend the service. This is in essence another form of proselytization through pressure and is forbidden in my sense of freedom. It should not get to this point. A person's belief is very private and each person shows reverence to God in his own way. Why impose one's way of worshipping or one's way of being reverent to all others? I fast to cleanse my body before I take communion. I don't go around saying "let's fast to show reverence to God". A Muslim prays five times a day at specific times. Suppose that the majority of Scouts in a troop were Muslim. Would you accept during an outing for the troop to stop and a leader saying: "It's time to stop and pray to God (Allah)" and not once, but 5 times in a day? All the while, the Muslim Scouts are praying towards Mecca in their standard form of praying, while the minority Christian Scouts look on in bewilderment as to what to do? Please be open and try to understand that what you may consider innocent because it is commonplace to what you grew up with, may be intrusive and bothersome to others.

I'm against this communal service held in order to satisfy the "A Scout is reverent". What does "reverent" actually mean? It means different things to different people. I was just on a camping trip and on Sunday morning, one of the leaders had one of the Scouts (a Chaplain's Aide) deliver a prepared sermon about God and nature. I'm not protestant, but I imagine it's the type of sermon one hears at protestant churches. To me, it was foreign! My reverence is by praying in private. It is very uncomfortable for me to stand around with others and "pray". So, why should I feel pressure to be a part of this nonsense? Why should my son be subjected to this? Isn't this proselytization to the protestant way of worshiping that I totally detest? It has no place in Scouting. Let me be reverent in my own way and don't subject me to this communal hypocricy.

The hesitancy surprised me also. Our troop just got back from an overnight backpacking trip in the Cohutta Wilderness, 6 miles in 7 miles out....4 Adults and 8 Scouts. The SPL for the trek was a Life Scout who is 13 (almost 14) and the other Scouts range from 10 years old (new crossover) to 13 years old. The Scouts separated into 2 patrols and they had to do their own patrol cooking with the backpacking stove. We made sure each patrol had its own water filter and showed them how to filter water. The one thing that we adults did instead of the Scouts was to tie up the bear bag. The backpacking and camping down to Jacks River went smoothly, except for an oversize bacpack for the 10 year old....we had plenty of food and the Scouts enjoyed swimming at the Falls. The next day we hiked out with 18 river crossings that came about knee high for us adults and thigh high for the Scouts. Three of them took a plunge in the water while crossing. Some of them got exhausted and we had to endur the complaining and crying for the last 2 miles, but they made it and probably learned a good lesson in how much they can endur. Perhaps we pushed them a little too much considering that for most of them (6 of them), this was their first backpacking/camping trip, but other than the usual run of blisters and scrapes, we had no safety issues.

If your Troop has a bank account, then the donations could be written to BSA Troop #. The BSA is a 501©(3) and the IRS will not have an issue with minor donations made out to individual troops as being deductible. If the individual donation is in the thousands, then contact your council and go from there.

sorry...above message should say "he should note the date...."

As stated by others, the MB counselor should have his portion of the blue card. Reissue the blue cards and the Counselor should write across the requriements table "COMPLETED". Then he should not the date that the merit badge was signed off from his portion and enter that date on the new blue cards.