evmori

Here's the rub Brent. If the council doesn't do it's job then the Scout is the one left out! And if they want letters and don't get them, then that can't hold up the EBOR! So it would also make sense that if the council didn't contact the references, they couldn't hold up the BOR. Is that too logical?

Ed, Ed, Ed,... Please refer to the ACP&P. You will see all this information about the reference letters appears in Step 6, including the directive that "council must make direct contact..." Directions for the BOR are in Steps 8 & 9. I probably don't need to point out that Step 6 comes before Step 8 & 9. Brent (I'm only using your name once), You are referring to the following are you not? If the initial reference letter or form is not returned to the council in a timely manner, the council advancement committee must make direct contact with the reference(s) listed on the Eagle Scout Rank Application on its own, by follow-up letter, phone contact, or other methods as it chooses. You are correct regarding contacting the references but no where does it state that this MUST be done prior to the EBOR! So it's #6! Show me where these must be done in numerical order! Heck, the requirements for rank and merit badges, in most cases, can be done in any order!(This message has been edited by evmori)

making the request to have those letters takes minimal effort on the boy's part. It really makes no difference how much effort it would take on the boy's part, Lisa. It's not his responsibility! it would be quite illogical to put up a major fight over this matter. The potential costs are great, while the benefits are minimal. I have pitched a fit about this in the past. I took a Scout in my unit for his EBOR and was asked about five minutes before the EBOR was to convene if he has his reference letters. He said no one ever told him he needed them? The Advancement Chair looked at me and I told her no one ever told me, either. She then proceeded to claim that is the way we always do it. I then asked her to show me where it states letters of reference are required to which she responded "Well we will have to get them before the paperwork is sent to National." My Scout had his EBOR then & passed with flying colors. I have no idea how they dealt with the references but we held his ECOH about six weeks later. Moral of this little story - It's worth it! I totally disagree with you Brent. No where does it state that the references MUST be checked prior to an EBOR.

Diversity doesn't mean everyone is welcome. It could mean understanding our changing demographics while still staying with traditional values.

And that says it all John! Letters are NOT required and a scout can NOT be denied a BOR because his references have not been contacted.

But for the troops, National has spoken pretty clearly. Being active and serving actively are two different things! If you have a POR and do nothing, you may be active in your unit but your are not serving actively in your POR.

I'm gonna go back to watching football! You guys are too weird!

If anyone is arguing that references aren't important, hopefully all the language above will show the BSA certainly feels they are. I don't think anyone has stated the references are not important, but a council should not hold up an Eagle BOR if they have not been received.

Wait Wait Wait! How does a Scout "actively serve" if he does nothing?

Well Merlyn is made in God's image so that is possible.

Apparently, packsaddle, you are not very familiar with the entire Bible but you did do a nice job of copying and pasting that verse. Usually when one does that, they include the passage reference and what version it was in. And BadenP is correct, that passage doesn't apply in this thread.(This message has been edited by evmori)

So if a Scout has a POR the time in position and does nothing, it counts? Not in my unit!

Who determines if a boy can be a den chief for all of his POR's? His Scoutmaster Does a boy ever have to do Troop leadership? Where does it say he canot be a den chief for his POR for star life and eagle? This is stated nowhere. If the boy goes AWOL for 6 month prior to getting Eagle whose responsibility is it to maintain regular contact with the SM? The boy? The SM? The SM is responsible. If this Scout holds a POR, the Scout should be notified by his SM that the time he is absent doesn't count as time for his POR. If you do not fire the boy from his POr does that mean he did it good enough to be advanced? No it doesn't. As long as the expectations were laid out when the Scout accepted the POR then if he doesn't meet those expectations, he might be turned down for his rank based on poor performance in his POR.

That sure seems like a long time! National is usually quicker than this!

Why does the policy need to be examined?

But that's not what's happening - the programs will remain - they just won't be Explorer Posts anymore, and won't be paying a fee to LFL. Again, the Youth who are interested will still be served - the only ones that lose out is LFL. You have proof this will take place Calico?

mdsummer45, What ever happened?

With a rebel yell She cried "More More More"

We had a similar problem when I was the SM. I crafted a letter to have the ASM removed, took it to my COR and asked them to sign it. I then took the signed letter to my council office & presented it to my DE & voila - GONE!

Prayers for all~

and coming from members of a discriminatory organization like the BSA, it'll just look self-serving. And your constant BSA bashing is the exact same thing, Merlyn. Pot meet kettle!

I know what the thread is about and it isn't about what you posted.

And Rosa Parks could've just sat at the back of the bus and gotten to her destination, same as the white people who sat right up front.. Some "injury," right? Completely different, Merlyn. You know that! Rosa Parks was discriminated against because of her race, not what she believed or didn't believe in. Remember freedom of religion?????

"5. While a First Class Scout, serve actively for four months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility (or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop) Serve actively isn't just coming to meetings and wearing a patch! If this Scout's POR was a PL and he had no patrol, there is no possible way he could "serve actively". Dad is completely wrong.

This sounds like one of those things a DE needs to do to get his bonus! Ya know, "Start xx number of new units" thing.