evmori

I gotta agree with Mike. There is a good possibility the wallet never made it to the meeting. Did this Scout drive to the meeting? Did he look in the vehicle? Is it still on his dresser? Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

Yeah but can he tie a bwoline blindfolded!

slont, Excellent post! I hold a meeting with the parents prior to summer camp & I cover the exact same things! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

I would call the parents to come get the Scout. When they got there, I would sit down with them & the Scout and explain what the Scout did is a direct violation of BSA rules. I would tell them I am not turning their son over to the authorities this time but if this happens again, I will then call them to tell them I did. I would also suspend this Scout for 60 days. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

Salra, Look for another Troop! I have no idea where you are located, but if you are in the Pittsburgh, PA area, you are welcome to come to mine! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

Bob, By separating the Scout from the rest of the Troop (regardless the reason)is punishment. Appropriate but still punishment. Plus, you threatened the Scout by giving the parents the option to come get him or call the local police! WOW! In my Troop, the Scout would have also been suspended for 60 days. What he did is a direct violation to BSA rules. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

I feel all BSA manuals & handbooks should be on line! We as volunteers need as much information as possible at our fingertips. Cost shouldn't be an issue. The most important thing should be having properly trained leader & Scouts to carry out the program. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

Did you give the snipe a leader application to fill out? If not, send it over to my Troop. I'm always looking for new leaders! PETA=People Eating Tasty Animals Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

Scoutparent, Thanks for applying common sense to the subject. I agree entirely with you post! sctmom, Sing away! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

OGE, Great scenarios! Actually mindbenders! Common sense must prevail. Is making Scouts clean a latrine for staying up & making noise past curfew wrong? No wronger than telling them you are going to call their parents if they don't get quiet. Are these punishments? Yes. The BSA has rules in place to prevent abuse. However, these rules must be interpreted using common sense. The situation and the Scout should dictate the course of action. Common Sense Common Sense Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

jps, Wouldn't some of the rituals used in OA ceremonies be considered hazing by your definition? And what is the difference between those & a search for 50 ft. of left handed shore line? And being endorsed by the BSA is not a good answer. OGE, I read that thread. While I don't agree with you, I respect you opinion. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

OK. The Scout who has been taught 5 time how & where to put up a tent & still does it wrong then is left to sleep in it during the rain & everything gets wet. Is this punishment? It could be considered that. And according to Bob, this is in direct contradiction to the G2SS. Therefore, this Scoutmaster should be branded & removed from Scouting for a direct policy violation! I don't think so. Once again, I agree with Rooster7. Yes the G2SS is clear about getting the parents involved but it doesn't say when that involvement should occur. Bob, I'm a little puzzled about the way you handled the Scout with marijuana. Considering illegal drugs are forbidden in Scouting, did you review this with the committee and the parents? Didn't you punish him by sending him home early? By stating that the committee and parents can punish doesn't mean the SM can't. The G2SS doesn't say the committee and parents are the ONLY ones who can punish. I don't have a wish to punish other people's children. I don't even like ounishing my own but if the need arises then I will in both cases. Dan, Thanks for the link. It will come in handy since I don't carry my G2SS around 24/7. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

Bob, Wrong. It is not intended to embarass. It is intended to remind the Scout he is responsible for his belongings. And yes it can be fun! There have been times at summer camp where we have had 3 or 4 Scouts put together a song & dance on parents night because they lost something. They loved performing & the parents enjoyed the entertainment! I agree if the intent is to embarass then it shouldn't be done but it is still not hazing! In my Troop, there is no hazing. There is singing for lost items for Scouts & Scouters alike. And it works! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1(This message has been edited by evmori)

OGe, I'll bite! What would you consider fun and why don't you consider snipe hunts & the like fun? Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

Folks, I can't locate this in the new Scout handbook but on page 300 of the 1990 printing, there is a picture of a common snipe! So snipe hunting is really no more than bird watching! If the fun like snipe hunting & looking for the three way left handed smoke shifter with the hickory handle is taken out of Scouting then what will be next? No pocket knives because someone might get cut? Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

It's not that singing is the worse thing you can make a scout do. It's just that, as the original post mentioned, it is no longer an acceptable practice in the BSA. Bob, Where does it say that singing for a lost item is no longer acceptable? Not the part of the G2SS that deals with harassment & hazing either. You are right, singinf isn't the worst thing one can make a Scout do. But, if this helps the Scout to learn to be responsible for his things then I don't see the harm. sctmom, Having a Scout sing for a lost item is not ridiculing him. It is an immediate consequence for his irresponsible behavior in front of his peers. And believe me, the Scout will look forward to the time when one of the other Scouts in his unit looses something so that Scout will have to sing. If done in the proper manner, it can actually be fun! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

Check with National but I think you need your lodge's OK to the tapout if it is done out of your lodge. You didn't say where the camp was. Is it in your council? Did all the Scouts meet all the requirements to be tapped out? Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

To intercede is to step and cease the action. It does not include punishing. Bold lettering in the GTSS is unalterable policy. Bob, Where does it say in bold letters "do not punish" other than corporal punishment? It doesn't say anything about it in my copy of the G2SS. What if on a camping trip a Scout steals something from another Scout and is caught? After the Scoutmaster contacts the parents, should the Scout have the same privledges as all the other Scouts? Or should he be restricted to his tent until mom & dad come for him? Or is that punishment? And if it is, is it allowed? And if not, where in writting does the BSA forbid it? Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

Wow! I gotta agree with Bob. This is a direct violation of BSA rules. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

I gotta agree with nldscout. It seems there are extenuating circumstances here. In my Troop, the Scout account is for the Scout to use for Scouting. If the Scout transfers to another Troop, his Scout account transfers with him. If he leaves Scouting, the money stays with our Troop. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

Rooster7, You rock, dude! I agree with everything you have posted. I only wish I would have said it! For those of you who think singing is hazing, I feel you Scouts are missing a valuable lesson. There are consequences for you actions. sctmom suggest that her son would have to explain to her why he lost the item then pay for it. Why? Was it yours? You didn't loose it! Your son did. He is the on responsible for his stuff not you! Other have said the Scoutmaster would be in trouble by not returning the lost item. While this is true, I think once again the point was missed. If a Scout looses something & doesn't realize it is even gone, then maybe this Scout needs taught a lesson about being responsible for his onw things. I would give tell the parents I have their son's watch & where I found it. I would also tell them he hasn't asked for it yet. There, I'm off the hook for theft. If it was taken from his tent by another Scout then I have a complete other problem! Bob, Time to get the head out of the books & get back in the real Scouting world! Scouting isn't meant to be a "glass house". Scouting is to teach boys good values. By caving into the politically correct crowd you do the boy no good. Your Scouting book knowledge is second to none, but when it comes to common sense, I feel you just don't have any. Someone also stated that a Scout just getting up in front of a crowd to say his name would embarass him. Well, this Scout is going to have a tought time completing the Communication merit badge & won't get to far in life unless he learns to speak up for himself. The intention is not to embarass. And by no means is the intention to haze. On one camping trip, I forgot my sleeping bag. In a hurry to get the truck packed & hit the road, I left my sleeping bag in my basement on a stool. I could picture it after the trucks were unloaded & my bag was nowhere to be found. I didn't loose it, I just forgot it! Well, when the Scouts in my Troop heard this, they were chanting "sing, sing, sing, sing". And sing I did. I had fun with it. And I have never forgot my sleeping bag again! Did I learn my lesson? You bet! I would never ask a Scout in my Troop to so something that was illegal, against BSA rules or someting I wouldn't do. And they all know this. Singing for lost items isn't hazing. Rooster7, I would love to meet you some day. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

OGE, How would you handle a Scout who looses everything? Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

yaworski, I forgot to add that common sense needs to be applied when buying a Scout uniform. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

I like ScouterPaul's take on setting a good example by not being alone wiht his son on Scout outings even though it's not in the SS Guide. Setting a good example is what we are here to do! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1

Sdriddle, I think we need to define hazing. According to Webster's hazing is defined as initiation process involving harassment. Now we need to define harassment. According to Websters harassment is defined as worry or annoyance. Ok now that's done lets move on. According to your post, when a Scout looses something & it is found by someone other that himself, he has to sing or do something else. To me, this doesn't seem like an initiation or annoyance. To me it seems like the Scoutmaster is trying to teach the Scouts the importance of being responsible for their belongings. In my Troop, we do the same thing if a Scout or adult Scouter looses something. There have been times I have had to sing! What this does is helps the Scout remember to not leave stuff laying around! This is not hazing. Hazing would be blindfolding the new Scouts & make them walk over what the thought were burning coals. Or making the new Scouts sleep outside without a sleeping bag. That's hazing. Making them sing for loosing something is NOT I repeat NOT hazing. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1