evmori

"How did that older more experienced scout become the Patrol Leader Ed?" He was elected by the Patrol, Bob. "Perhaps you are refering to an older more experienced scout being selected by the SPL to be the Troop Guide in a New Scout Patrol?" No I was refering to the Patrol Leader. "That is, if the troop utilizes the New Scout Patrol. Something which I am glad to hear you support." Never said I supported the New Scout Patrol. All I said was the Troop would have to have one for this method to work. And now that I think about it, the Troop wouldn't need to have a New Scout Patrol for this to work. A Patrol leader can be trained from within a Patrol regardless of the Patrol make-up. Ed Mori

By the way, the G2SS doesn't ban smoking at Scouting events. The way the reg is worded by using "may not allow" means there are times it is allowed. I am in no way advocating that we as leaders should be smoking in front of Scouts but there are many worse things we could be doing. Ed Mori

I agree that BOR's are not for retesting but what do you do in the following situation. Sammy 2nd Class is participating in his BOR. One of the board members asks Sammy "Who taught you your knots for this rank?" Sammy answers "No one." You look in his handbook & notice there are initials beside the requirement indicating it is completed. Besides investigating who signed off on a requirement that shouldn't have been, whoudln't it be proper to ask Sammy to tie the required knots? Ed Mori

Bob, No one is telling them who there leader is. They will elect their leader. Where you got from my post they will be told who their leader is is beyond me! Ed Mori

"At no time did anything I write violate the G2SS and you know that." Ummm, yes you did in your post in the Medical Forms thread on 10/6/2003. "There are those who will argue that the leader needs to know the content of the health form, but that is simply not true." The G2SS states the leader should review the medical forms. If a leader reviews a medical form he/she will know the contents. Ed Mori

Excellent post OGE!

I have seen it work both ways. There are some 11 year olds who are good leaders. I would say this is the exception not the norm. In my experience, most 11 year olds don't want to be leaders. They want to be followers. I think the idea of having an older Scout who is more familiar with the BSA program be the Patrol Leader with the idea he is training his replacement from this Patrol. And this only works if the Troop utilizes the New Scout Patrol. Ed Mori

I misuse the program? Examples please examples! I am not professing that I follow the program to the letter. I don't think anyone does. But I have never misused the program. Ed Mori

Bob, Do you use this condescending style in your training courses? If so, does it work? I understand very well, Bob. What you seem to not understand is there are time no matter what you do that it's not going to get through. But I guess that never happens in the Bob Scouts of America, does it. Ed

What's your point if you have one, Bob?

Mark, Sometimes brevity is a good thing. However, that time is not now. Poor leadership usually gets poor results but the results can be good. Good leadership usually gets good results but the results can be bad. A PL with poor leadership skills can be taught to have good leadership skills & the opposite is also true. Now just because a PL has good leadership skills doesn't guarantee his patrol will follow his lead. Why? They might be too young to understand his style? They might not understand what he wants to accomplish? Maybe when he was a Patrol member he didn't listen to his PL & his Patrol members think why should we! I had a SPL who was "out there". What I mean was the way he dressed, he had piercings, was a little out of control. But the Scouts followed him like he was gonna give them a million bucks! They would do anything for him! And he didn't have the textbook "leadership skills". I have also had SPL's who have had textbook "leadership skills" who were poor leaders! Nothing is an exact science. Ed Mori

Bob, This style might work in your training classes but I consider it a bit condescending. Cut to the chase, please. Thanks Ed

I'll go with "Leadership gets a response whether it is good, bad or just so-so."

"Face it Ed, there is no such thing as good leadership that doesn't get a response. After all that is how you know it's good, isn't it?" Bad leadership doesn't get a response? Leadership gets a response whether it is good, bad or just so-so. And bad leadership can yield positive results just as good leadership can yield negative results. Ed

And what if they don't respond to any type of leadership goof or bad?

Bob, They are different. They took the big cargo pockets away & added elastic to the waistband! I don't feel this is a good thing. I loved the cargo pockets. And the elastic in the waistband is a pain! I realize I am only one person but lots of people I know would rather have the cargo pockets back. Ed

And the BSA Supply Division is doing that how regarding the uniform pants?

"Something that you are ignoring is the fact that for a leader to succeed, the leadees need to be willing to be led." What a huge dodging of responsibility that is. The goal of leadership is to gain the cooperation of others to complete a task. To say "they won't follow" is the same as "I cannot lead"." This isn't a dodge of any responsibility. In some instances, it is a fact. If those being led don't want to be lead they won't be led! And saying won't follow & can't follow are not the same. On might be able to follow but can't for other reasons & visa versa. Not everything is black & white! Ed Mori

"It hasn't hurt Microsft!" So that makes it OK?

CubsRgr8, I don't disagree if Patrol Member is considered a position.

"So? Who said that it was?" You did when you posted "All positions are refered to as positions of responsibility in the scout resouces as far as I know."

I think this happens more than we think. Kids earn their Eagle & quit. Some feel they can't get any better than Eagle. And in some ways, they are correct! Some are burnt out. I don't think its Scouting burnout just burnout from so many activities that when they earn their Eagle they feel it's over & now there is one less activity to participate in. Hopefully, these Eagles will come back to Scouting in the future & share what they have learned with another generation of Scouts. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

I like the uniform! I like the whole thing! I think it's very comfortable! And Laura, if you aren't wearing the pants because you think they look SO BAD, consider this - most od the time you are wearing them you are with other Scouters who are ALSO wearing them. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

"All positions are refered to as positions of responsibility in the scout resouces as far as I know." An Assistant Patrol Leader isn't considered a position of responsibility for rank advancement.

"I'll tell you what I told Ed, if you cannot ask nicely than you don't get an answer." Bob, Here is how I asked the 1st time. What's not nice about it? "OK Bob, where and in what handbook does it state each Scout in a Troop should have a position of responsibility? Not your interpretation of what it says." Oops! Forgot - Please! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10