evmori

No need to fret vol_scouter. Merlyn can twist stuff better than an Olympic diver. From an article Somehow, the American Civil Liberties Union - normally given to howls of execration at the mere thought of a creche in any semipublic place at Christmastime - is not challenging any of this. Why? Because, it says, it's not a matter of religion but of "cleanliness and safety." Foot-washing in regular sinks can be a messy business. It can also be off-putting for non-Muslims who must use the sinks and rest rooms for ordinary purposes.(This message has been edited by evmori)

Sorry Merlyn but building a Muslim foot bath is more of a violation of the 1st Amendment than chartering a BSA unit. It makes no difference if the foot bath can be used by everyone. If it was built for a specific religion in a public funded school with taxpayer money THAT is endorsing a religion which is a direct violation of the 1st Amendment. Joining a BSA unit is not a right!

Sometimes a leader needs to be pushy and bossy. It could be the only way to get a task accomplished. But if that is their only way to lead, I would propose they are not leading at all.

I'm sorry I was baited by evmori into a comment I did??? What did I post??? Ed

Muslim foot baths installed in a public school and paid for by public money is a straw man?(This message has been edited by evmori)

Nothing anyone posts ever fits, does it Merlyn so I'll just keep posting! http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/006359.html http://www.religioustolerance.org/ps_praf.htm (This message has been edited by evmori)

http://thesop.org/story/usa/2009/11/20/maine-muslim-students-right-to-pray.php http://educationalissues.suite101.com/article.cfm/muslim_prayer_in_public_schools http://www.debbieschlussel.com/1347/exclusive-so-long-churchstate-separation-university-of-michigan-to-fund-muslim-footbaths/

Wrong. Sponsoring a scout unit requires the sponsoring unit to practice religious discrimination, and public schools can't do that. I think we need to get the terminology correct, Merlyn. Chartering and sponsoring are different and Scout units are chartered. Public schools sponsor all kinds of clubs.

Now that's funny asm1429, but you do realize there are those who I am sure will comment that what you posted is hazing!

Yes OA membership is voluntary. Once you are elected and you accept that election, you must go through an initiation. Initiations are by definition hazing. Lent is not hazing! And if you think it is then there is a serious problem.

Singing happy birthday to a scout comes to mind. While singing happy birthday isn't bullying or hazing, having happy birthday sung to you by a restaurant staff while they clap their hands in a crowded establishment could be considered embarrassing

Pie time!

I like that idea Scoutfish! It gets the point across!

Since you mention it I did investigate the OA ordeal and how they squared the "no hazing" policy in BSA. They were happy to explain. I am comfortable that *voluntarily* eating a smaller than usual breakfast & lunch and performing some service to the commuity isnt much of an "ordeal" much less hazing. There is no "voluntarily" about it. It is required. There is also a "no talking policy" involved. And the service isn't to the community, it's to the OA. And it is an initiation which by definition is hazing.

I hope ya got a lot of elastic in that stretch, Merlyn.

Gotta love it! Comparing a 100 year old institution to something that hasn't gotten off the ground and has little chance of ever getting off the ground. You are starting to sound like a Wizard of Oz character Merlyn!

For all those who think a public school could charter a BSA unit, how about if public schools formed teams for the new "All-American Basketball Alliance"? It's whites-only, but I'm sure that's OK if nobody is required to play on the team, and people can still start their own sports teams. And refusing to form such a team is discrimination against whites, and we all know schools can't practice racial discrimination, so that means they're REQUIRED to form them. How about you come up with something that could actually happen as a comparison, Merlyn.

Well, Mr Irish, the difference is pie is real food and a Pop Tart is, well, it's like the difference between Guinness and Miller Lite.

Sure a school can provide tutoring to ANY student who needs it. And until a school actually has a "No Jews Club" or a "Jews Only" club that is run by a public school, Merlyn, your analogy is pointless.

I would ask this individual to show you in an official BSA Cub Scout manual where it states the uniform is required. I wouldn't consider information on the BSA website to be official policy unless it is specifically stated it is policy. The data on the BSA website is mostly for informational purposes. (corrected a typo)(This message has been edited by evmori)

The Patrol members decide on a name.

There was a patrol at a camporee that called themselves "The Idiots Who Camped on the Hill". It was cold and windy and camping on the high spot at the camp fit the name well!

In no uncertain terms we explain that our troop has a "zero tolerance" policy for hazing. Guess none of the kids in your unit will be in the OA since getting in fits the definition of hazing. Zero tolerance policies are a great way of not dealing with something.

What goes around comes around. Lead by example. I don't think I or the boys need to earn respect, it should be an assumed given for everyone equally regardless of whether or not they are entitled to it. Giving of respect is a reflection on me, not the other person receiving it. I was with ya, Stosh, until the I don't line. Respect is earned. Do you respect a boss who steals and lies just because he is a boss? I'm talking about the person not the position.

Lisa, I read that wrong. My bad. I missed the initial "no" which makes the rest of the response a head scratcher. And like others have stated, this isn't really a committee issue.