evmori

johndaigler, Why would it be acceptable to tell someone they don't belong? Because they don't meet the membership requirements! How is telling someone they don't belong hazing? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

Tellin someone they don't belong here is "Hazing2 T really hope you are kidding!

Would it be better if the two packs had their recruitment events on separate nights, or both on the same night? Separate night since the same night hasn't worked. If they do it on the same night, does one group get the better location or tables or whatever and the other one is told to set up in a dark corner? The thriving Pack get the table right inside the door. The other pack is behind them. What could be done to put the two packs on an equal footing on recruitment night? Remove the politics. How is one pack given a better opportunity than the other? The thriving Pack has parents on the PTA while the other Pack doesn't. It's very political. The thriving Pack has been established longer & it seems they feel their toes are being stepped on by the other Pack. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

DeMann, check this out: every public school has to treat all its students equally on the basis of their religious views. Wrong. All students must be treated equally REGARDLESS of their religious views! So when the BSA deceives public schools into chartering their private discriminatory clubs, they're being dishonest. There is no deception so there is no dishonesty You have no problem being part of a dishonest organization? The BSA is not a dishonest organization so I have no problem being a member! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

I am willing to bet that a) the committee is not active or in charge of the unit, b) the Chartering Organization is unable or unwilling to step in, c) the leaders are not trained, or else went to training not to learn but to get a patch (unless they have ignored what they have been taught), d) the leaders don't have the personality or ability to attract new parents/boys( they may be running the program in a way that is attractive only to themselves and not in an ideal fashion), e) no one on the district level is getting their hands in the mess in an active, understanding, and noninvasive way. a)the committee is active b)somewhat true c)all are trained & use the training d)not true e)DE has stepped can it be fixed? sure. You could go to the principal and get a special join-night just for the weak pack, but I am willing to bet that the weak pack will not be able to retain the boys recruited. You describe a rather common problem. all Scout units will rise and fall with time. It is only because of the leadership they have- it surely is not the program. it is the people. pure and simple. The unit would be able to retain the kids they recruit if they were given an equal chance to recruit from the lone elementary school. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Anything by John Williams. Emerson, Lake & Palmer also have done some great stuff you could use. FScouter, That was 2001 Theme not Star Wars. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

I did the same thing for my son! I used "Fanfare for the Common Man" by Aaron Copeland. Great music. Very regal. I also used "God Bless the USA". There is a video that goes with this. I also used "The Entertainer" (theme to "The Sting") by Scott Joplin during the Power Point picture presentation. The music doesn't have to be about eagles. It just has to fit the ceremony. Let us know what you decide to use & how it turns out. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Fact is Merlyn will never like the BSA and he is exercising his right to say so. The BSA is also exercising it's right to not allow people who they don't think should be member membership. Call it discrimination. Call it what you want. The supreme court ruled for the BSA. Merlyn doesn't like that decision. Yet he wraps his arms around the decision to remove prayer from schools! Wonder what would make him happy? He will say when his tax dollars don't support any organization that discriminates against anyone! The chance of that happening is slim. Momma taught me to pick my fights cause you can't fight everyone! Billy Joel wrote a song that fits Merlyn. I'm sure OGE know's which one I speak of. Got a line in it that states - "I had my pointless point of view. But life went on no matter who was wrong or tight". Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Now about what they are saying. A good commissioner would find out if it was true. Trust me. It's true. Does that make me a good commissioner? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

So not only are you not involved in the problem you do not have the training or experience to help yet. Ah yes but I did answer your question about what a commissioner should do correctly! Interesting. If you attribute it to luck, you would be wrong. I do plan on attending training & reading the support materials. Until then, I will use the common sense God gave me. What did you miss? The source of the problem. You say it's the program the one pack has. Wrong answer. For you it always come back to the program. Sometimes that's not the problem. Sometimes there are other circumstances. Take into consideration the other unit telling parents "You don't want to join those other guys! They don't do anything. They yell at the kids, etc." all of which are not true. The other pack is known as the "bad pack". Doesn't sound like program problems to me. It sounds like politics and dirty politics at that. And by the way, there is only on BSA program. The delivery of this program is where the difference lies. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

As a commissioner is it your mission to try and control what is said by all the adult in pack A, or to get pack B the assistance they need to improve their program to the boys? You ask some strange questions, Bob. I'm not gonna justify this one with an answer. I suggest you go back & COMPLETELY read the original post. You might understand the situation better! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Bob, You didn't address the entire post, as usual. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 P.S. I haven't been to commissioner training nor have I read any of the material regarding being a commissioner yet. I will be doing both. The answer I gave was strictly from common sense!

Ed, blaming the other unit for being better at recruiting is silly. Apparently you didn't understand, Bob. The other pack has a stranglehold on the lone elementary school in the borough. Neither pack is chartered at the school. The other pack badmouths the pack in trouble to parents & kids. This is a fact. If the playing field isn't level someone will suffer. What as a commissioner should be done to help save the pack? Look at the delivery of the program & see where it is lacking. Then, make sure all the leaders are trained & get everyone from the pack together & develop an action plan for reviving this pack. Then get into the lone elementary school & hold a sign-up. Do the same in the youth group of the CO church. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

The DE was wrong to go to the pack leadership of #1 and ask them to share their resources (whatever those resources are) with another unit. 1st of all, the DE didn't ask them to share resources, only for their support. Their response was "no". Pay attention! 2nd, the program is the same. One BSA program, remember. The difference is the delivery of the program & that will always vary from unit to unit. But when one unit is not given a fair chance to recruit from the main source of boys as the other, that's wrong & should be dealt with. After all, we all want the boys in the program regardless of where the program is delivered. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

An unusual way for a commissioner to measure unit quality. How so?

This unit's problem is a weak program. This is not a recruitment problem. A restaurant with bad food that can't keep customers or gain new ones does not have an advertising problem they have a kitchen problem. This pack needs to learn how to make a program "cook". And you based this opinion on what? I would agree except when the troubled Pack was doing good, they had better attendance and Pack meeting, summer camp & distinct functions than the other Pack. Plus, they had a greater number of Webelos (% wise) crossover. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

Bob White is right on the money! But there are times when the committee might say "no" or "you can't" and that's OK! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Bob White is 100% correct in his assessment of who's decision this is! As far as his voting comment that's another story! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Has the troubled Pack tried to hold a sign-up night at it's church? No. Most of the members of the church don't live near the church. Does the church have a school it is associated with? No Are both churches the same religion? Yes If not, the troubled Pack should try to contact boys of the same religious affiliation as their church. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Merlyn, Why can't a government agency charter a Scout unit? Because the BSA discriminates? Government agencies give money to tons of organizations that discriminate! Why should supporting the BSA be an different? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

KS, Praise the Lord! Thanks for the post! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Did you ever notice Merlyn only pipes in when the word "discrimination" shows up? I'm not surprised he thinks the BSA is being discriminated against! What does surprise me is he actually admitted it! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

No matter how good the training was or how often a leader goes, if they never put in into practice it doesn't matter, they will not be a quality leader. Poor training yields poor leaders. We have a leader on this board who has been to Wood Badge and even serves on a training team. He has scouts leaving his troop faster than passengers on the Titanic. Yet he constantly argues against the methods of scouting. Actually, you should this should have been worded "argues against Bob White's interpretations of the methods of scouting" Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

I was at a unit commissioner meeting last night. In one borough there are two Packs. Both draw from the only elementary school in the borough. One is thriving. The other is all but dead. The thriving Pack has parents on the PTA of the elementary school. The other, none. Our DE told us she approached the leadership of the thriving Pack & asked them to help support the other Pack and the leadership of the thriving Pack said "no". A little history of the troubled Pack. It was started about 10 years ago with 5 kids and grew to around 20 kids. There was a change in leadership about 4 years ago. Membership started to wane about 3 years ago. Both Packs held their sign-up night at the lone elementary school together & what an ugly sight it was! The thriving Pack ended up with all the new Cubs! They had them in their pocket before sign-up night ever happened! The troubled Pack never had a chance. And the death started. The thriving Pack has large numbers. However, they cross very few Webelos over to Boy Scouts and have minimal attendance at summer camp. There are enough kids in the borough to support two Packs. BTW, both are chartered by churches. I am not the commissioner for either of these units. I was wondering what suggestions the posters on this board had for trying to save the troubled Pack. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Excellent! If I get my hands on any uniform parts, I will send them on! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10