evmori

Draw straws & send someone home!

In troops where singing for lost items is the norm, are the Scouters also expected to sing when they lose something, or just the Scouts? Everyone sings!

Oh for Pete's sake answer the question. Does the OA require the candidate to perform an embarrassing act in front of the other members? Aggravating isn't it! I guess you need to define embarrassing? Tossing rocks into bucket could be embarrassing. Just having to complete the ordeal could be embarrassing! And I warn you if you say "yes" somebody is going to ask you to name it because many of us are OA and we know that there isn't any such inane requirement. And why does it have to be embarrassing? It is an initiation! And initiations are prohibited. G2SS Physical hazing and initiations are prohibited and may not be included as part of any Scouting activity. Sounds like the ordeal to me! And I am an OA member! Not even one that you can conjure through some overactive imigination or pretense. Don't need an over active imagination. OGE, I'm not taking shots or sitting here "rubbing my hands". My point is if you consider singing for lost items hazing why don't you consider the OA ordeal hazing? Valid question! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

Good point, Backpacker! However, Bob should be running for office cause he can spin stuff better than the Globetrotters can spin a basketball! The buddy system is a very important part of Scouting but to say that means "no Scout tents alone" is a real stretch. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

You don't complete your ordeal, you don't get your OA sash. You don't sing "Little Bunny Foo Foo" you don't get your lost pocket knife back. What's the difference! And don't hold back, Bob! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Bob, Based on your logic, it's all about equipment choices. If you have an odd number of Scouts going on a camping trip you better have a tent big enough for three Scouts & gear! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

OGE, Not asking inane questions! If you consider singing for lost items hazing then why isn't the ordeal in OA considered hazing? That's in initiation & according to the BSA shouldn't be allowed! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

So the OA Ordeal isn't hazing?

And if singing for lost items is hazing then what is the Ordeal new OA members MUST complete? Sound like an initiation to me! And that equals hazing! I have been out of Cubs for over 15 years & when I was Cubmaster we turned new Bobcats upside down! Why? Pack tradition! Never dropped one either! And never had a Bobcat or parent ever request not to be turned upside down! If we would have, we would have honored the request & pinned the badge upside down instead. Oops! Forgot an important rule! If Bob never did it or heard of it or never experienced it, it doesn't exist in Scouting! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

My gosh you have a leader posting on this board who claims to lose 50% of the new scouts who join each year, and yet more of you have chimed in about my use of the buddy system than spoke up about his misuse of the entire program. Bob, I will assume (I hate to assume anything) you are talking about me and you should get you facts straight. I never claimed to lose 50% of the new Scouts who join each year. You claimed that! Without any basis, I might add! And what that has to do with the use of the buddy system is beyond me! Don't get in a tizzy because you might be incorrect in your interpretation! It's OK! We all make mistakes! That's one way we learn! I am in complete awe of such behavior. So am I! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

How is singing for something lost hazing?

No

And if Uncle Billy has a signed letter from little Johnny's dad stating Uncle Billy is little Johnny's guardian for the camping trip they can share a tent? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Expertise has nothing to do with it, Bob! If you are interpreting the buddy system to mean "2 in a tent" then that applies to everyone on the camping trip regardless of age! Which means a Troop can't go camping with an odd number of Scouts or an odd number of adults or less than 2 females! WOW! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

So Uncle Billy takes little Johnny on a Pack camping trip because his brother who is little Johnny's dad can't make the trip. But Uncle Billy & little Johnny can't sleep in the same tent because Uncle Billy isn't little Johnny's dad even though Uncle Billie is the adult responsible for little Johnny for the weekend? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

I don't own a Tiger handbook & didn't know it was in there. Done deal. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

I really don't think the buddy system means no Scout tents solo! Mike F's post addresses this best! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

You guys are funny (This message has been edited by evmori)

Have taken AND taught YP, Bob. The verbiage is the same as the G2SS "parent or guardian". Haven't taken New Leader Essentials so I can't comment on it. Common sense prevails here. If you aren't sure, ask! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

So let me see if I understand. You feel that allowing anyone who says they are the parent (even if they aren't) or the guardian (and by your definition that could be any adult who is there with the scout) to sleep in the same tent alone with the scout, and you see this as "being concerned for the safety of the youth in your charge". WOW! No you don't understand. The point I am trying to make is it isn't as black & white as you think it is. And without the BSA defining parent & guardian, it is left open to interpretation. If don't know the person, ask! Use common sense! Our main concern should be the safety of the youth in our charge. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

I may be wrong on this but when fundraising doesn't the scout/pack have to either provide a service or a product? How does bike riding satisfy that? Good point, Ron. However there are many councils & districts that hold bowl-a-thons! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

The G2SS states parent or guardian. Since the BSA doesn't define either, they are open to interpretation. A parent can be the boys birth mom or dad, their adopted mom or dad, their step mom or dad, etc. A guardian can be an aunt, uncle, grandparent, brother/sister 18 years of age or older, a court appointed guardian, etc. The BSA doesn't require us to ask for proof these people are who they say they. Legal guardianships doesn't automatically equal family member. And the G2SS doesn't use "legal" with "guardian". And the on-line youth protection training uses the same verbiage as the G2SS. Our main concern should be the safety of the youth in our charge. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

And the BSA states this practice is prohibited where?

FScouter, Agree 100% Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

twocubdad's post: "A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of an adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged... Den Leaders, pack leaders and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips." (Guide to Safe Scouting, page 21, 4th bullet). Page 22, under Pack Overnighters says "In most cases each youth memberwill be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responisble to a specific adult." I belive the common understand of that is that a Scout can camp with another adult (small G guardian) who is directly responsible. I can't find the reference right now, but I my understanding is that an adult can be responsible for only one boy other that his/her own children and that the leader of the group cannot take responsibility for any addition youth. "When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult other than his parent or guardian." (G2SS, p 7, #7). So no, each father and son would need their own tent or the two boys could share one tent and the dads another. Bob White's very next post: Twocubdad is right on the money. Nowhere do the words "legal guardian" appear in the G2SS regarding this. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10