evmori

Why do you insist on displaying to the scouts that the SPL is nothing more to you than your parrot? Your opinion. And a very inaccurate one at that! And why would I congratulate them for doing something they are supposed to do? My idea of success if the same as yours. We just have different methods of getting the same results. And that's OK! And if the SPL decides to take a hike with the rest of the Troop prior to unloading the gear that's OK? I shouldn't tell him to unload the gear 1st then go on their hike? And BTW, what does unloading the gear have to do with making ethical decisions? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

No. This has happened before & will happen again! The BSA will survive as a boy only organization. Scouts Canada went coed. Anyone know how this helped/hindered them? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Being created equal & treated equal are two different things.

Adult patrols can be a good model for youth patrols to follow if the adult patrol operates as if they were a youth patrol according to the Patrol Method. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Ummm the government treating everyone equally? Isn't that the same theory communism used? tortdog, You really know your stuff. Thanks for your posts. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Honestly Ed! What is with the switching gears thing? You have not been arguing for teaching the boy, planning and then leaving him in charge without interference to make good decisions. You've been arguing in favor of issuing orders and making a boy do what you want because it is the right thing to do. Having that discussion on the ride wouldn't be the short sweet direct approach you like so much. My argument - as you put it - has never been against teaching. My point has been there is nothing wrong with telling someone to do something. Not every decision we make is an ethical one! We decide to take out the garbage because the bag is full. No ethics involved. We decide to have a snack because we are hungry. No ethics involved. Teaching boys (or anyone) to make ethical decisions is teaching them to do the right thing. Sometimes boys (or anyone) need to be told what to do. Nothing Wong with that. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

And therein lies the problem - Merlyn's lack of belief in God. Once again, the minority is trying to regulate the majority. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Oops! Missed that! Sorry! So then where is the conflict? Everyone disembarks when they arrive at the campsite. The Scouts mill around checking things out & after a little while you say to the SPL "Get the gear unloaded." And you have a problem with the SM saying this to the SPL? Would you have another 10 minute discussion with the SPL as to why you think the gear needs to be unloaded? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

tordog, You are my new hero!

Bob, Has it ever occurred to you that entire scenario could be played out on the way to camp in the vehicle? Or even while the trucks were being loaded before you left for camp? Nah! That makes too much sense! And really, what's the harm in telling someone to do something? There is none. Is it a style of leadership? Yep. Can it be used with other leadership styles? Yep. Closer to what I do is what I just described. It's up to the PL's where to put their patrols. I set up my tent & put on a pot of coffee & relax. That's what I do. Barry, A dyslexic little but ADD not. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

FScouter, Good point but if the Troop defines "serve actively" and puts it in writing then that eliminates the "gray area" and puts all the Scouts on the same page. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

And I'm not trying to make it hard! Just trying to point out there are time things need to be told 1st & explained later. Bob, Doing the right thing is doing the right thing regardless if you are in a Scout uniform or using the Methods of Scouting. Helping boys make ethical decisions isn't something new and isn't exclusive to Scouting. Helping boys make ethical decisions is helping them do the right thing. And sometimes that help comes in the form of orders. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

I seriously doubt the SPL will run around telling all the other Scouts what to do just because he was told to do something. SR540Beaver, And what if the Scouts in the Patrol don't follow the duty roster? Think the PL might be "telling" them what to do? Very possible. Everyone seems to think telling someone to do something is a bad thing. It isn't!! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

eisley & Hunt both have valid points. Serve actively is not defined in any BSA publication I know of. So having something in writing at the Troop level would help eliminate any confusion. I love the idea of a FAQ section on the National web site AND on each Council site AND maybe even at the District level. As long as it's current & accurate! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

The big losers are the City of San Diego and the people of San Diego They lose a tenant who maintained a section of the park at no cost to the taxpayers. And the loss cost them a ton of cash not to mention how much the upkeep will cost in the future. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

If the SPL doesn't unload the gear on his own initiative, maybe it's because he has been trained that he doesn't do anything except what he is told to do. I guess the possibility he is a brand new SPL that never had a POR crossed your mind. Or that he is the acting SPL since the SPL couldn't make the trip. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

OK. So when we get to camp telling the SPL to "get the gear unloaded" isn't the way to go? I should have a 10 minute conversation with the SPL so he understands why the gear needs to be unloaded? That way he will feel part of the decision making process? Do I have this correct? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

"Only the patrol leader had any gumption at all ---he was heating a hot dog on a stick over a fire when I saw him! Well, enough was enough. I tossed the hot dog in the fire and told him to get breakfast ready." I am curious how many posters see this as the correct response from an adult scout leader? Since the Scouts perked up & accomplished what they needed to I would say yes it was the correct response. Just because they were tired is no excuse for not completing their task. Sometimes the best method is being direct. And in this case it was the best method. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

I have asked a question twice & I don't want to ask it again cause Hunt will yell at me! I guess since my question isn't dealt with it is an acceptable by-law. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Nice unprovoked shot, Bob. And not on topic either! Ethics are tough. We all have our own views on what is right & what is wrong. Teaching boys to make ethical decisions is really teaching them to do the right thing. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Just because adults get awarded for expected behavior doesn't make it the right thing to do. Rewards should be kept for exceptional behavior. I'm not a touchy feely guy. I believe in getting right to the point. Why waste time with fancy words when the same thing can be accomplished another way. But that's just me. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Eamonn, I would say "OJ pick up your toys" and expect it to be done! No other reminders. And if they weren't picked up by the end of the day they get bagged for the trash since they obviously aren't important enough to OK to be kept. I would bet the next time "OJ pick up your toys" was uttered the task would be completed. Door prizes? Rewarding expected behavior? Not a good idea! Once you start this you end up rewarding everything anyone does & when someone does something spectacular it is diminished. Helping boys make moral decisions sometimes takes telling them what to do then explaining why later. And there is nothing wrong with that. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

We consider summer camp a great place to practice cooking. Everyone gets a shot at it! On Troop weekend campouts we (the adults) might tell the SPL dutch oven cooking only or cooking over fire only. There are times our entire weekend revolves around cooking. And most weekends, the adults eat what the Scouts cook. We as adults don't always have our own menu. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Good answer Merlyn! Exactly what I expect from you. Stooping to name calling & side stepping the entire question! Good evasive tactic! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

He'll probably pick a counselor named Wilbur!