evmori

In my district, the Advancement Chair & Committee keep the list of merit badge counselors current. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

My personal rights are the same as yours, Bob. And they are the same as President Bush & Senator Clinton. But saying the BSA can boot someone out because they complain too much is just, well, absurd! I can complain all I want. So can you! The BSA can't kick you or me out! And I'll ask again "Which rights aren't in place to protect me? Which ones are to protect people from me?" Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Personally, I like secret squirrel stuff! Sorta CIAish!

As you say ed it is "one" of our rights. There are many others, not all of which are there to protect 'you'. Some rights are there to protect others from you. Is it your suggestion we abolish the rights of others? Do we simply abandon the freedom of association? Or does the BSA not get to use it because you are a member and you think your rights over-rule all others? My rights & your rights & President Bushs' rights are all the same. Which rights aren't in place to protect me? Which ones are to protect people from me? What do we do with the rights of private organizations Ed? There is nothing to be done. I don't understand the point of the question. Can volunteers who gripe to much be removed by the BSA, absolutely, and thank goodness to in most cases. This statement still floors me. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Yep the quality of the program in each unit is what each unit makes it. And being able to disagree with something the BSA(or any organization or person) does is what make this a great country. That is one of our rights. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

No its just that ultimately the quality of the program is dependent on the deliver at the unit level by unit volumyeers. IOf you really believe the quality of the program is that bad it is your own fault. Huh? This makes no sense! What did he post? Sure the BSA has rights. So do I. I don't violate there's & they don't violate mine. Great country America! FScouter, Thanks but I would quit 1st since your goals seem to be a little suspect. Getting rid of people who don't agree 100% with you is a little suspect that all you want is "yes men". Hitler operated like that! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

jkhny, I don't really think the BSA sucks. Just used that as an example. If we as BSA volunteers know something is wrong it is our ethical & moral obligation to let those in charge know about it. And if it is those who are in charge that are responsible for the wrong doing, then it is our ethical & moral obligation - not just as Scouters but as human beings - to tell someone else who has the power to bring it to light. If we don't how can we be good examples to the Scouts we lead? How can we teach them to make ethical & moral decisions if we don't do it ourselves? The Catholic church tried to sweep stuff under the rug & look what happened to them. Do we want the same thing to happen to the BSA? I know I don't. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Would you allow a person to stand in your living room and insult your wife for as long as they wanted? No Is their presence in your home protected by their first amendment rights? No because their (and mine) 1st amendment rights has nothing to do with being in my house. Your analogy is totally flawed. The BSA is an organization not a place. I can stand across the street from the headquarters in Irving, Tx & yell "The BSA sucks" until someone stops me. And the BSA can't toss me out! That is totally different from someone standing in my living room calling my wife names. Big difference! OK. Split hairs! Then what is your answer to How is the BSA run - as a dictatorship or democracy? You only have two choices! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

I would think it would be OK as long as it is approved by the SM (which should be done before the service project). Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Never posted America was a democracy. I am fully aware what type of government we have & how it operates. What I posted was "In America, free speech is allowed." Get off the comparison to one's home. Apples & oranges as you would say. If I voice my opinion on the local news and it is contrary to the BSA they can't remove me! They can request I don't do that anymore but they can't remove me. If they do, they are violating my constitutional right of free speech. By the way Bob & FScouter, what are your answer's the to question - dictatorship or democracy? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

There is no right to "free speech" in a private organization. If that's the case, the Scouting is a dictatorship. In a democracy free speech is allowed. In America, free speech is allowed. BSA stands for Boy Scouts of America. Free speechs is one of the tenets our country is built on. It is one of our most important rights. Being a member of the BSA doesn't take that right away. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Bob, The two examples cited in jkhny's post were not removed because they had opinions that were contrary to the BSA's. They were removed because they were whistle blowers. Big difference. FScouter, What a comment! And from a moderator! Does that publication also take away my right of free speech? And in case you didn't notice, Mr.White couldn't provide chapter & verse, you did. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Bob, Continue to be surprised! As an American, I have the right of free speech. Being a member of the BSA doesn't take away that right. Yes we have been over this before and before I (and others) have asked you to show chapter & verse in any BSA policy or regulation that states I (or anyone other member) can be removed for voicing an opinion that is contradictory to the BSA's and you have yet to show one. Why? Because it doesn't exist except in your mind. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

There does not need to be a specific cause, it's a PRIVATE organization. So because I am a member of the BSA I give up my 1st Amendment right of free speech? I doubt it! Now if I commit a crime, that could be a reason to revoke my membership. But if I publicly state "The BSA sucks" (which I don't believe, just an example) then I can be removed as a volunteer? Isn't this one of the reasons we seceded from England? I can't even fathom how a Scouter could think this way. It's flat out un-American. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

I think it's a great idea!

This thread should be titled "What a Hoot". I can't stop laughing! (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

If that's true it is very sad. So if I voice my opinion and it is contrary to the BSA, I can be removed as a leader? For what? Voicing my opinion? This is the USA not the USSR and I am allowed to say anything I want about anyone or anything without reprisal. Freedom of speech. I think it's in the Bill of Rights somewhere. And the BSA's right of freedom of association does not take precedent over my right of free speech. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Make training mandatory!

Lynda J, Great idea! I just told my 20 year old daughter and she howled! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

This thread is funny! The originator lumps a bunch of us together & says he agrees with us when most of the time we don't agree with each other! And then on of the bunch is offended he was included and wants his name removed! What a hoot! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

FScouter, That's not my opinion. It's the truth.

Classic Semper classic! Thanks for the chuckle!

OK. Let me see if I understand this. If an adult is a bad leader, the adult not the one who trained the adult is responsible for being a bad leader. And if a boy is a bad leader, the adult(s) who has trained the boy not the boy himself is responsible for the boy being a bad leader. How do you justify this line of thinking? It doesn't make sense. The trainer might be responsible or the trainee (adult or youth) might be responsible or both might be responsible for a bad leader (adult or youth). Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

So if adult leaders are bad it is their fault & if boy leaders are bad it is the adult leaders fault? Is that correct?

From office not Scouting!