evmori

I remember when my son was working on his Eagle. He had everything completed. He just had to write up his project for his BOR. I figured it was his Eagle. One day after about a month had passed since he finished his project, I asked him if he wanted to be an Eagle. He said yes. I then said "The job ain't finished till the paperwork is done." He looked at his feet and said "I know." Later that evening, he presented me with his completed Eagle Project Workbook. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Thanks OGE, but what was the point? To emphasis something we already know? And how would this eliminate an agnostic from being member? mssnowman's post is probably where this Scout is! Being agnostic sounds a whole lot cooler than "not sure". And when one is a teenager, it's all about being cool! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

If one believes it is impossible to know anything about God, then it follows that it is impossible to do ones duty to God. What we have here is a failure to understand. Let's try this - Define God! The God you do your duty to. Let's see what we get. Excellent points, Hunt. And I would bet this Scout doesn't even understand what an agnostic is! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 (This message has been edited by evmori)

It is unfortunate but these things do happen! Makes ya wonder, don't it? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

FScouter, Do you have any idea what an agnostic is or are you assuming an agnostic is an atheist? If you are you are wrong. Please, do some research. You will be surprised by what you learn. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Check with other Troops in your area. Call your District Advancement Chair to see if there are some new counselors that aren't on your list. Recruit a new counselor! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Let's look at this list: Some ways to be involved: Attend meetings Attend activities Attend campouts These are part of active. Participate in service projects Help another Scout learn a skill Perform the duties of a leadership position These are parts of active, too. Do good turns While these are admirable, they have nothing to do with being "active in your Troop and Patrol". Live the Scout Oath and Law every day Again, while admirable, not necessarily being "active in your Troop and Patrol". Tell another boy about Scouting Recruiting. That's active! Invent a new dutch oven recipe Good but not necessarily active. Help build a chuck box Make phone calls to other Scouts reminding them of the next outing. Active. Keep physically fit Physically active, but active in your Troop & Patrol - I don't think so. Complete requirements for rank advancement Yep active. Attend church Active for the Scout's church not in his Troop and Patrol. Remember, church attendance is not a requirement to do duty to God or be reverent! Participate in community activities Like what? Little League? Active in the community, maybe but not in the Scout's Troop and Patrol. It seems, FScouter, you would agree that the definition of "active" is very subjective. While you and I agree on some point in your list,we don't on others. And that's OK. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Eamonn, Duty to God - correct. This Scout's God, not yours. They could be the same or they could be different. Just because this Scout is unsure of God's existence (based on definition) doesn't mean he can't do his duty. We don't actually know where he stands unless we talk to him & try to understand his position. He is not professing to be an atheist, just an agnostic. I never posted the Scout Oath was the company line. I posted And the company line that answers the question Q. What allows the Boy Scouts of America to exclude atheists and agnostics from membership? A. The Boy Scouts of America is a private membership group. As with any private organization, Boy Scouts retains the constitutional right to establish and maintain standards for membership. Anyone who supports the values of Scouting and meets these standards is welcome to join the organization. doesn't answer the question. It is just a company line. Rejecting something because you don't understand it is ignorance. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

If this Scout continues to refuse to say grace he will never advance past 2nd Class! And refusing to say grace doesn't mean the Scout doesn't believe in God. Remember, "Scouting does not define what constitutes belief in God or the practice of religion". Love your post Kudu. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

And where does it state that saying grace must be a religious thing? Saying "Thank you for this food, Amen." would suffice. And where does it state a Scout must belong to an organized religion? Nowhere! An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist. and a couple definitions 1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. 2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism. So where does this boy fit? We will never know if we don't ask. And the company line that answers the question Q. What allows the Boy Scouts of America to exclude atheists and agnostics from membership? A. The Boy Scouts of America is a private membership group. As with any private organization, Boy Scouts retains the constitutional right to establish and maintain standards for membership. Anyone who supports the values of Scouting and meets these standards is welcome to join the organization. doesn't answer the question. It is just a company line. I am a devout Christian. And while I agree atheists should not be allowed in Scouting, an agnostic isn't an atheist - yet. And if I were to kick this kid out of my unit because he told me he was an agnostic without gaining a greater insight to him, would be nothing short of wrong. And yes kick him out! Means the same thing as revoke his membership, remove him from the roster, etc. I have always found those who want to parse participles instead of actually understand the issue somewhat ignorant. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

I think it's time some of the posters do a little investigating into agnostism. I think what they will find will surprise them! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Put a comma or semi-colon after "sky" and it would be clear that the exception applies only to the tent. As it is without punctuation to set off "tent" it is grammatically correct that the parenthetical exception applies to both sky and to tent. I guess it's back to reading 101! 1. Camp a total of at least 20 days and nights. I don't think there is a problem with this. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. This seems pretty straight forward, too. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched (long-term camp excluded). This is where we have the disagreement. The only time the Scout isn't required to sleep under the sky on in a tent he has pitched is if the Scout is using a long-term camp as part of the required 20 days and nights. Otherwise, the Scout must Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. And the only way cabin camping should be counted (other than long-term camp) is if the cabin has no roof! Should be simple for most to understand. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

An agnostic isn't an atheist! They are not the same. And an agnostic could be able to recite the Oath & Law truthfully. I, for one, would allow this Scout to stay with the unit while he works through this. If he would come to me and state he doesn't believe in God, then I would revoke his membership. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

What the requirement states is if you use a week of long term camping, the pitching your own tent requirement is waived. Other than that, to fulfill the requirement the Scout must "Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched". What is so tough to understand about this? And according to your interpretation, FScouter, the Troop could go to the Holiday Inn & that would count! I guess room service would count toward the meal planning part, too! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Then you would have given up on a youth. I would not be willing to do that in this case. This boy is looking for answers. Maybe you are the one who has them. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Show experience in camping by doing the following: 1. Camp a total of at least 20 days and nights. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched (long-term camp excluded). If you interpret "Sleep each night under the sky" as sleeping in a cabin then why not count the nights the Scout sleeps in his own bed in his own house? And heck, the Scout could even pitch a tent in his living room & sleep in it! In three weeks this Scout will have this requirement completed! No wonder we have problems! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Cabin camping doesn't count. As far as counting the total nights, I use from the time the Scout joined Boy Scouts. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Excellent post anarchist! Great points! Thanks for sharing! I feel for ya! Anything I can do? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Depends on the merit badge. There are some that can be completed easily & others where the Scout would have to start all over! What merit badge did the Scout lose the card for? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

usscouts.org

Now that makes sense! I would suggest to the PLC they switch from the full uniform to a Troop t-shirt for Troop meetings. There might be other Scouts in the Troop who feel the same way and there might be potential Scouts who would not join because of the uniform requirement. Let us know how things work out! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

The following requirement will be added starting Jan. 1, 2006. Any Scouts who pass their Second Class Board of Review on or after that date will need to fulfill the new requirement. Those Scouts who pass their Second Class Board of Review before January 1, 2006 will have until June 30, 2006, to earn First Class without completing the new requirement. Tell someone who is eligible to join Boy Scouts, or an inactive Boy Scout, about your troop's activities. Invite him to a troop outing, activity, service project or meeting. Tell him how to join, or encourage the inactive Boy Scout to become active." That's the offical word! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

What a can of worms you opened, Hunt. But one that needed opening. Yep there are the obvious. Active isn't one of those. It is not defined by the BSA (except for Sea Scouts) so I would agree with the others that it is up to each individual unit to determine. So that said, is it fair if Troop A has a 75% attendance requirement and Troop B considers being registered synonymous with being active? Sure is! The same guideline is used for each Scout in the unit. And like someone posted in another thread, if you don't like the requirement, switch units! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

If a CO sets a minimum attendance policy for membership it DOES effect advancement therefore adding to the requirements. You can't advance if your not a member. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10

Now we have completely digressed! Let's take a look at the original post. It states the Scout is forced to come by dad. It is possible this is the Scouts idea of a way to get kicked out of the Troop. If the SM doesn't have a sit down with this Scout & decides to just kick him out he is doing the Scout and the Troop a great disservice. I would bet if you asked this Scout what it means to be an agnostic, he wouldn't even be able to spell the word let alone know what it means. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10