evmori

Burning books! What's next? No driving in reverse?

"So, how would I do it? Require mandatory training at the local level for all registered adult leaders with materials supplied from National. But isn't that what we do now??? And yet not all leaders are not trained or resieving the same information even though every district and council has the exact same syllabus! How is that possible? What would have to change for the current training system that is in place to get the same information to every participant? Training is not mandatory. A Scoutmaster does not have to attend any training. If training was required, there is an excellent chance the training would be better at the local level. And one more thing, if the district or council isn't passing along the necessary information, the volunteers who do the training can't be responsible for missing information. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Styles of leadership vary from person to person. All styles can be appropriate all the time. A good leader knows when to use a specific style to get the best results. If we let a book tell us when a leadership style is appropriate we miss the chance to evaluate the situation & use the proper style of leadership. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

With the mass number of people & the wide area you are describing, it would be next to impossible to ensure local training was done exactly the same everywhere unless you had a single training team that traveled the country and handled all of the training. Either that or get every one to be trained in local areas & have one big massive video conference. Either one would be prohibitive in cost and time to organize & pull off. So, how would I do it? Require mandatory training at the local level for all registered adult leaders with materials supplied from National. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Well, personally, I own my vehicle. Bought & paid for. Free & clear. And the rules of the road change by state & county and in some case by municipality. Scouting is the road. Units are the cars. The adult leadership is the driver of those cars. Each doing their best to follow the road. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Great analogy FScouter! Whole lots better than the McDonald's or sports teams analogies. If Scouting is a road, there is room to move around on that road. The goal is not to run off the road yet keep moving. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

You are absolutely correct, Bob. Those aren't National numbers Philt was providing. But my premise that one years worth of data doesn't support a claim that a program works still stands. As do the other questions I ask in the same post. This is a good start, but it is incomplete. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

We quibble over the statistics because there are claims National has data to back up the claim that Scouts who earn 1st Class in 12-14 months are retained at a higher rate than those who don't yet we have yet to see any of those statistics. A one year sample is a good start but not good enough to validate an entire claim. How many of the Scouts in that 100% were retained the next year? How may of the Scout who didn't advance or advanced to a rank lower than 1st Class were retained the following year? Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Batting 3rd and playing right field, #21 Roberto Clemente! Got to see him play! He could run, hit, catch & what an arm! One can only imagine the stats if is life had not been cut short. Got his autograph, too! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

You got it GW! And the SM & ASM's in this patrol can use these times as training sessions for the other adults! All without them knowing they are getting training! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

I would agree with Eamonn regarding "dirty pool" and John-in-KC regarding the answer to the question. Calico, You are correct as usual. The JASM reports directly to the SM. Got a question of my own - what's the point here? Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Did the home builders learn their trade from the same master builder? I doubt it. The same can be said of Scoutmasters throughout the country. Yep we all have the same resources available but we don't all learn from the same teacher. The great variable is training. Done by local volunteers who learned for other local volunteers. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

I also analyze data for a living & I agree with Barry that the 100% number is unrealistic over time. While this could happen for one year, I doubt you would see this continue year over year. There are too many factors in play to maintain 100%. The Tenderfoot & 2nd Class numbers are more realistic & probably a better representation of the actual advancement rates. Was there any other data analysis done on other years? If not, I would not use the results of one year to state a program works. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

All other youth positions report directly or indirectly to him. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Although I would hope someone at National runs an audit log on datafields such as birthdate being changed... at the end of the day, ScoutNet is a database, and a new birthdate isn't much more than 10 keystrokes/mouse clicks from completion. Just cause you can doesn't mean you should. A Scout is trustworthy. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Why is a specific plan needed to help Scouts develop basic skills? Isn't that what the ranks of Tenderfoot through 1st Class do? If the advancement method is properly administered during these ranks, a Scout should be able to earn 1st Class in one year. I've heard the retention line to defend First Class Emphasis & have asked numerous times, where's the data. I have yet to see any other than the limited data posted by Philt. And that data does show that 28% that did advance to either Tenderfoot or 2nd Class re-registered at an 83% rate. Not bad! If First Class Emphasis was such a great program tool, where are the numbers to prove it? It is possible it has outlived it's usefulness & maybe it is time to let it go. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Thanks for the correction emb021. You are correct about the JASM position.

I'm all for scrapping First Class Emphasis! Never did understand why it was needed in the 1st place. Like I posted before, if a Troop is giving the Scouts the opportunities they need to advance, it is up to them to take advantage of it! After all, Scouting is for the boys, not us! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Oh I know this! There are no rank requirements for the position of SPL or any other position for that matter! Except JASM! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

>>First Class Emphasis (which is the original topic of this thread) focuses on the advancement method.

Nothing will ensure all adults will be trained properly or the trainers are good. Since the training is done locally, it will vary widely. Mandatory training will help eliminate those adults who don't want to commit the time to the program and it will get all the leaders in the same training area (district or council) on the same page. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Kids don't leave Scout only because the unit they are in has a poor program. The reason Bob White listed poor parental support, left for sports, peer pressure, competing activities are valid reasons why Scouts quit. Scouting isn't for every boy. Neither is football or band or the 4H Club or the Chess Club. Boys will go where their friends are & do things they like. The best we can do as leaders is keep the boys we have & deliver the mission of Scouting. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

No need to look outside our Council. Weekend courses are offered Spring and Fall - in competition with these one-day, $20.00 courses. Let's see. I can go the weekend for $30 (includes food) or do the nine hours course and pay $20. The weekend courses go begging for learners. The Fall, 2007 course was dropped (a first) when only four signed up. Doesn't sound like a lack of training being done by the local training committee. Sounds like registered volunteers not taking advantage of the training being offered until they find out they have to have it to do something then whining to the council & the council trying to do what they can to accommodate the whiners. Instead, if the council would have told the whiners they need to attend the courses already offered, well! But then again, if training was required, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Thanks LongHaul! I was just pointing out that because it was done doesn't make it right. Even it was done for a good reason. There are more issues than crossing over like you pointed out. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

I could be wrong but a 9 hour 1 day OLS course would not be enough to teach enough necessary skills to be able to teach the Scouts in your unit. And I don't think a local council can require an adult be trained to be registered. I could be wrong there, too. I am all for mandatory training. Complete the application, get it approved & cleared, go to the required training for your position & then start working with the unit. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10