evmori

Assumptions (not a good thing to do) were made about Lisabob's post that the Scout had completed all the requirements & therefore the BOR had no valid reason to deny this Scout his advancement. No where in any of Lisabob's posts is it stated if the Scout had or had not completed all the requirements yet this is still being dwelt on! WE DON'T KNOW THE REASON THE SCOUT WAS DENIED ADVANCEMENT BY THE BOR! Get past it! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

On this, you are correct OGE! Scary ain't it!

And nothing in Lisabob's post said the Scout completed all the requirements either! We don't know and assuming we do is wrong. So let's drop it! John-in-KC, Based on the information provided, you are correct! The Scouts responses where not what the requirement asks for. Someone else posted that maybe a do-over BOR for this Scout was in order. I tend to agree. He could of had a lousy day & just wasn't up to it. A 2nd BOR should give the board a better read on this Scout. What you did was like tough love, Lisabob - something unpleasant that needed to be done. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

It's when the other groups are allowed to put up posters & the BSA isn't that chaps my shorts! It should be either all or none! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

OGE is right on the money! Scouting is about the boys! Hence the name! Don't let your God given talent go to waste! If that means switching Troops, so be it! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

I think this could be interpreted a couple ways. 1) Serve in one position for 4 month, and another for 3 months. 2) Serve in one position for 6 months. The Eagle Rank application has lines for two positions. And note, the 6 months need not be concurrent in one position. Example - PL from 1/2007 through 3/2007 = 3 months and PL from 1/2008 through 3/2008 = 3 months = total 6 months. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Which makes me wonder why district-level leadership training of Scouts - a program that impacted much more widely than the week-long course, disappeared when I wasn't looking. I keep hearing that it's coming back, but I have not seen it. My district still does this TAHAWK! We call it LLT - Learned Leadership Training. Staffed this a few times! Great course! Sorta a pre-NYLT! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Well, if the kids didn't meet the membership requirements of the school chess club they could get kicked out, too! Like most organizations, the BSA has membership requirements. If you lie on you job application & are found out, you can be fired! If you lie on you BSA application and are found out, your membership can be revoked! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

OGE, I'm not trying to place blame anywhere! All I am saying is not everything is the fault of the adult leadership! Would you agree? Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Number 1, because there are three times more adults present then scouts so the odds are better that the adult screwed up. That makes no sense. Number 2, the low number of leaders who are trained and know how to do a board of review correctlty. Making generalizations is seldom correct. Number 3, by the time the scout gets to the bor he has been tested several time, the members of board have not. You don't know that to be true! This could be the 100th BOR each member has sat on! That's tested, my friend! Number 4, in this case not one thing has been posted by LisaBob that shows that the scout did not complete a requirement, and that is what has to happen befpre the board can choose to not advance the scout. The details were specifically left out for the reasons given. Based on that, nothing was posted that indicated the Scout did complete all the requirements. Number 5, not one thing posted by LisaBob on this incident shows that the members of the board knew of, or followed, the required actions for denying a scout advancement. As I said, details were omitted for a reason. Number 6, when things go wrong the first thing a responsible leader does is look at what they might have done wrong or could have done better that could have precipitated the problem. Poor leaders just blame others and never evaluate their own behavior. Something doesn't have to go wrong for a boy not to pass a BOR. Placing all the blame directly on the adult leadership is not seeing the whole picture. It's like a marriage - give & take - there are two groups involved - leaders & Scouts - each has a part - and each or both could not be doing their part. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Why is the assumption always the BOR was in error? It is very possible this Scout wasn't ready to advance. It is also very possible the BOR was out of line in denying this Scout advancement. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Required means ya gotta go! I have always felt training should be required. Ya fill out the application, turn it in & you are given a training schedule for your position in Scouting. You attend & your application is submitted. You don't attend, you are a parent, not a leader. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

It is completely up to the Scout! Some don't want it, others do. What would I think? Nothing. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

In all the merit badges I have counseled, I don't ever remember seeing anything that prohibited double or triple dipping. That said, it is still up to the MB counselor to accept or not accept it. Example - Swimming - A Scout went to summer camp June & completed requirement #5 for his swimming test. In October he signed up to do the swimming merit badge & met with his counselor. The Scout told his counselor he had completed #5 at summer camp. It is up to the counselor to accept this or make the Scout do it over again. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

RememberSchiff, The SM Conference is not a pass/fail requirement. All the Scout must do is participate. Lisabob, I understand you wanting to not reveal all the details. And I, too, don't think you violated anything in denying this Scout his advancement. A BOR is not a rubber stamp requirement! Based on what you posted, most of us would have done the same thing. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Gunny, Scout Spirit is a separate requirement from the SM Conference. Sorry if I failed to mention that. using polysyllabic words is not a BSA advancement requirement. True but answering yes or no or I don't know or just shaking his head while staring at the coffee stain on the floor is not what should be expected, either. And yeah, maybe the questions asked could have been better. But a BOR is not just something a Scout does & get signed off for. A BOR can decide not to pass a Scout on to the next rank. The Board of Review is an opportunity to review of the Scout's attitudes, accomplishments and his acceptance of Scouting's ideals. And based on Lisabob's posts, attitude was part of the problem. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

These are all at the discretion of the MB counselor. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Ed or anyone, if the SM Conference isn't a pass fail requirement, then if the Scout has done the rest of the work are you saying I am then required to sign off, that they have had a SM Conference - and can then request a BOR, which (as I understand it)in theory cannot retest(as a pass/fail) the Scout on anything and so really is just another sign off? If the SM & the Scout get together for a SM Conference & it takes place, the requirement gets signed. A SM Conference is nothing more than a chat between the Scout & SM. OR, if Scout spirit is lacking how do I address it w/o a SM Conference after they have completed the rest of the work for the next rank? I'm positing that I have been talking to them about it as we went along. If the Scouts Scout Spirit is lacking the SM can refuse to sign off & give the Scout his reasons & a plan to get the requirement completed. Or the SM can send the Scout to a BOR & advise the BOR the Scout Spirit requirement is not signed off & let them deal with it. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

;)We beat the last SM to a pulp who acted like this Seriously, I would find a new unit. You are only fighting city hall with little chance of winning. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Wrinkle in the scenario above, the CO does not (to date) require membership in their church and has boys of the same faith as the CO from other churches. All else applies. What then? Then it sounds like the CO has changed the membership requirement going forward which is their prerogative. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Let's not forget a SM Conference is not a pass/fail requirement. So if a SM Conference takes place, it is completed & should be signed off. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

That was helpful! Thanks Bob!

Bob is right on the money. If the unit is charted by a church they can require membership in their church as a pre-requisite to join the unit. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Sorta sounds like a Scout Spirit issue. And Bob is correct. The reason this Scout was denied advancement is to be given to him in written form. Not advancing a boy at his BOR is a tough decision but one I feel is not made often enough. It seems the BOR is sort of a done deal that just needs to be signed off. This can be the fault of the SM or the Scout or both. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10

Yeah open to observation. That doesn't mean participation. Sure they can watch all they want. But there is nothing that states they must or may participate. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10