ericjude

FScouter: Because they want to stay in a single patrol. They all went through Arrow of Light together and want to keep those ties even if only on paper and their uniforms. As they advance and take on different roles in the troop, i'm sure they will entrust the patrol to new guys. Until then, they want to remain Cobras.

Lisabob: On the books, they are a single patrol (Cobra). They carried over the name from their Webelos II Den/Patrol. On campouts and other activities, they split themselves into three groups: campsite, cooking and activity. The campsite patrol is responsible for setting up the tents, building the fire, etc; cooking is responsible for preparing the food and cleanup afterward; activity is responsible for planning (and occasionally presenting) the weekends activity. Each campout sees the membership of each group changing, and each electing a leader. It may sound a bit strange, but it seems to be working wonderfully. All of the guys have a chance to learn about leadership, while also learning basic scouting skills. And because they all have to be in charge at some point, they have quickly learned how to be good listeners.

ScoutNut: We're in Mississippi and hunting is a big part of life down here. Additionally, five (5) of the nine (9) parents belong to hunting clubs or share a lease on hunting lands. I agree that hunting is not part of Scouting; and hunting will never be a troop activity. When they crossed over from Webelos, the first thing they asked the SM to do was arrange a hunter safety course so they could get a hunting license and go out with their fathers. The SM got certified as an instructor and began teaching the course to the guys. Please know, all of this happened before I came on as an ASM. In regards to the Ad Altare Dei, I'm getting trained as a counselor for all of the Catholic religious emblems. I earned both the AAD and the Pius XII as a youth and also have a degree in Religion, so I was approached by the diocesan committee chair to be the counselor for this area. Unfortunately, the guys in my troop aren't old enough for the AAD yet. SA: I appreciate all of the advice! I've been in scouting for nearly 20 years (Eagle Scout '86; 4 years summer camp staff; Brotherhood member of the OA; 3.5 years as SM in another troop) and am very familiar with the ideals of scouting and the boy-run program. I am also very familiar with units that have very little parent support and often have to limit things because there aren't enough adults involved. The other adults in the troop are new to Boy Scouting, but they are very active. One of my greatest struggles as a new leader was balancing the paperwork with the activities. The paperwork can sometimes overwhelm and discourage adults new to the program. Because of my experience, when I came into the troop I volunteered to concentrate on the paperwork side of the troop (charters, advancement, permits, etc). As the other leaders get trained, they will see how everything fits together and (hopefully) stick around as their sons move through the program. I've spoken with leaders in other units in the district and they have all had great comments and advice. I haven't had a chance to attend a roundtable yet, but plan on making as many as I can. My reason for asking the initial question was to see how other units across the nation handled non-advancement programs. Thanks again for all the feedback!

Thank you for the responses. ScoutNut: We've got nine total, all of them first year scouts. I may not have explained the situation clearly. We as the adult leadership are not limiting what they can work on. We're limiting ourselves at the opportunities we present to them. Like I said, we've found enough for one a month for the next two years., all of which are age appropriate. We feel that if we present them all, the next year may be spent working on the immediate recognition of the patch or medal. We don't want to distract from learning the basic scouting skills by them working on non-related awards.

I am the ASM (and Advancement Chair) of a new troop. We have nine (9) first-year scouts, seven (7) of whom earned their Arrow of Light. The guys are very enthusiastic about Scouting and we want to keep them that way. Wanting to keep them excited, we looked at non-advancement opportunities they can participate in. There are alot more oppotunities available now than when I was a youth back in the 1980's. So many in fact, that we could do one a month for the next two years! They are currently working on their hunter safety certification. NCCS has a rosary program, as well as an International Catholic Awareness program. There are quite a few historic trails in the area. All of these programs have a either a patch or medal (or both) associated with it. We want them to have fun, but we don't want them to think everything they do will earn them a patch or medal. The adult leadership have discussed things and decided that one "extra" program every couple months would be a good amount. We aren't limiting the number of programs they can participate in, we're simply limiting ourselves in what we present to them. If a scout comes to us expressing an interest in something, we don't tell him no. My question to the group is this: How many non-advancement activities do you typically make available to the youth in your units? Does one every two months sound like a good average?

The national website has inforamtion about the program (http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/antarctic/program.html), but like most of the information on the national website, it's not easy to find!

Semper ... We'd still have the same problem that we have now: how many are allowed on long pants vs. short pants. I can see little Johnny now, with merit badges ringing both bottom cuffs of his scout shorts! Seriously, I agree that the wide (three across) merit badge sash requires quite a bit of attention. By the time I reached Eagle, I had to resort to safety pins to keep it on my shoulder. And I admit that I forgot it more than once at the scout hut. If the narrow (two across) are still available new, I don't know. I've only ever seen them for sale used. But they appear to be just the right size to fit under the epaulet (like the OA sash). Just being able to do that would make them easier to wear.

My comments about the OA sash was in the context of my troop ... not national policy.

I've been on both sides of this: as a youth wanting to display (read "show off") my Boy Scout achievements as often as possible and as an adult trying to teach scouts that a weekend campout is NOT the place for a merit badge sash. During uniform inspections the idea that sashes are for formal occasions is strongly taught. Any scout arriving for an activity with the sash is reminded that it's not a good idea. Most of the time, we're able to send the sash home with a parent. As for the OA sash ... those are only to be worn during official OA functions. The youth should never need them during a weekend campout or a court of honor. The lodge flap should be enough. If they insist on displaying an OA sash, they use one of the miniature sash dangles.

As an adult member, I hold two offices: ASM in the troop and Associate Chapter Advisor for the OA lodge. I decided to have a shirt for each one. Since the ASM shirt is worn mostly indoors, it has everything: CSP, unit numbers, POR, square knots, etc, etc. The Associate Chapter Advisor shirt only has a CSP, lodge flap and POR patch. I'm always in the woods when I'm wearing it, so I figured a used shirt in good condition was sufficient. For some of the youth in my troop, two shirts may not be an option; if for no other reason but outgrowing them both every six months. I have no objections to one of our Assistant Patrol Leaders, who is also a Den Chief, pinning the APL patch on during troop meetings. His primary POR for advancement is Den Chief; the APL only comes into play during campouts and the occastional troop meeting. Velcro was discussed as an option, but to set a good example for the Cubs, he decided to sew the Den Chief patch on. And having the two patches during troop meetings helps to reinforce service to the younger scouts.

Perhaps a post of clarification is in order ... I know what a snipe hunt, in the traditional sense is. However, I am afraid that I am ignorant in the Scouting version. Perhaps someone can enlighten me?

Dare I ask what a snipe hunt is?

Katrina did do a number on us, but things are getting better every day. Camp Tiak lost about 1/3 of its trees. It's strange standing on the porch of the dining hall and being able to see about a mile through the trees. Scouts and scouters from two councils came down to help with the cleanup and recovery: NCAC at the end of October; Bay-Lakes WI during our regular winter camp in December. I've heard about the sled races ... I think I'll pass in favor of being tapped out for OA ... the tap out only hurts for a few minutes afterwards!

I've been lurking for a while and have thoroughly enjoyed the discussions and information in the forums. I have about seventeen years experience in scouting: three years in Cub Scouting; seven years as a youth in Boy Scouts (including four years on summer camp staff); seven years as an adult leader (ASM and SM). I'm a member of the Evangeline Area Council Eagle Scout Class of 1986 and a brotherhood member of the Order of the Arrow.

t158sm: Thank you. I've been lurking for a while and really appreciate all of the discussions and informations in the forums. I'm not talking about the advancement patches (rank, merit badges, etc.). Those are paid by the unit and are part of the troop budget. I'm also not talking about $100 FOS CSPs or $25 lodge NOAC fundraiser sets. I'm talking about the stuff designed by the council or district (e.g., activity patches, neckerchiefs or CSPs). I don't want to pay the price and I don't pay the price. But I'm an adult now. I remember being a youth and feeling left out because I was not able to afford the summer camp neckerchief or extra Fellowship patch. And I know of current youth in my troop that are in the same situation. You could argue that it's a life lesson .. but try explaining that to the only 11 year old new scout in the unit who can't afford the Spring Scout-O-Ree neckerchief. BTW ... my council orders all of their stuff from a company in Florida. The exact same company that the unit ordered our patches.(This message has been edited by ericjude)