epalmer84

I wasn't aware of Charles Murray, so I have added him to the list of Eagle Scouts who were awarded the Medal of Honor: Aquilla J. Dyess Robert Edward Femoyer Eugene B. Fluckey Charles P. Murray, Jr. Mitchell Paige Benjamin L. Salomon Leo K. Thorsness Jay Zeamer, Jr.

Welcome! I lived in Neu-Ulm, Germany for several years and was the Scoutmaster of a BSA troop. We did whitewater rafting down the Ins river several times. Ed

I certainly don't think that cell phones and the like should be banned outright, especially in a frontcountry setting like the jamboree. I do think that there should be a code of courtesy for cell phones. Ed

>Allowing scouts below the rank of First Class to earn merit badges occured before the 70s. Back in the 30s or so, certain merit badges could be earned by 2nd class scouts, and later (I think the 50s or 60s) all scouts could earn any merit badge. Ah... I will have to fix that.

The British made similar changes earlier with similar mixed results in a study called the Chief Scouts' Advance Party Report. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chief_Scouts%27_Advance_Party_Report

I think a two different things are being mixed up here. There was a Urban Emphasis program and a Rural Emphasis program created in the 1960s to bring Scouting to urban and rural areas. They merged in 1998 to form the Scoutreach Division. In 1972, the Improved Scouting Program was introduced. Here is what I wrote on the program in the Wikipedia article History of the Boy Scouts of America http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Boy_Scouts_of_America#The_1970s:_the_Improved_Scouting_Program The BSA commissioned a series of studies and developed an updated program to modernize Scouting in a manner similar to the changes of the British Boy Scout Association in 1967. September 1972 saw the launch of the Improved Scouting Program. The Cub Scout Promise was changed from "to be square" to "to help other people", as the term square went from meaning honest to rigidly conventional. The use of boy was de-emphasized: the eighth edition of the handbook was titled simply Scout Handbook and the new strategic logo used Scouting/USA. Much of the Scoutcraft information and requirements were removed, replaced by information on drug abuse, family finances, child care and community problems. Conservation included both urban and wilderness areas. The concept of the personal growth agreement conferences was introduced as a requirement for each rank. Under the new program, a Scout could reach First Class without going hiking or camping or cooking over a fire. The program was modified for a system of immediate recognition. Individual rank requirements were supplemented with skill awards recognized by metal belt loops. Ranks and merit badges were to be presented immediately, and recognized later at the court of honor. The merit badge programpreviously only available to First Class and abovewas opened to all ranks, and merit badges were required for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class. The number of required merit badges for Eagle Scout was increased to 24, and Camping merit badge was dropped from the required list. The entry age was changed to 11 or 10- if a boy had finished fifth grade. The Senior Boy Scout program was replaced by the Leadership Corps. Initially the Leadership Corps was limited to leaders 1415; older boys were expected to become junior assistant Scoutmasters or move to Exploring. The Leadership Corps could wear the forest green shirt with a Scout BSA strip until it was discontinued in 1979. The Leadership Corps patch was worn in place of the patrol patch, The first version of the patch was trapezoidal, replaced by a round patch in 1987. The red beret was initially introduced for the Leadership Corps, and extended for troop wear in 1973. Troop Leader Development (TLD), adapted from the White Stag Leadership Development Program, was introduced in 1974 to train youth leaders. The Cornerstone program was introduced to train adult leaders. Leaders who completed the course were recognized by a special version of the leader's emblem that was embroidered with Mylar thread, giving a shiny look. 1972 saw the introduction of new colored cloth badges for all ranks and positions, the new Webelos badge was introduced and the old badge became the Arrow of Light. In 1973, most Cub Scout leadership positions were opened to women, and in 1976 the Cubmaster, assistant Cubmaster, and all commissioner positions were opened. From the early 1920s, the BSA had been divided into 12 numbered regions, each designated by a Roman numeral, which consisted of territories of several states. The 12 regions followed the organization of the federal reserve system at that time. In 1972, the 12 regions were consolidated into a new alignment of six geographic regions (Northeast, East Central, Southeast, North Central, South Central, and Western). In 1976, concerns over the lack of emphasis on Scoutcraft and declining membership lead to the introduction of "All Out for Scouting", a back-to-basics program developed by William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt. The program was launched with "Brownsea Double-Two", a week long course for the senior patrol leader who would then introduce the troop-level "Operation Flying Start" to their units. Junior Leader Training (JLT) replaced TLD and Brownsea Double-Two in 1979. From a peak of 6.5 million Scouts in 1972, membership declined to a low of 4.3 million in 1980. Hillcourt returned from retirement to write the ninth edition of the Boy Scout Handbook in 1979, returning much of the Scoutcraft skills. The number of Eagle required merit badges was reduced back to 21, and Camping was restored to the required list.

>I received the centennial BS History book for Christmas and was surprised to learn that two Canadian Scouts came to the 1936 National Jamboree in Washington, DC. No big surprise? Well, they bike to it from British Columbia. Try getting a National Tour Permit under those circumstances today! That would have been the 1937 National Scout Jamboree. They missed the two Scouts from Venezuela who walked to D.C. http://www.shorpy.com/node/6133 Ed Palmer

More history at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_Scout_Association Ed

I have a nice canvas fedora with mesh sides that is about the color of the original switchbacks. I wear it in the summer with the adult emblem. Here is one on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/CANVAS-SAFARI-INDIANA-FEDORA-CANVAS-MESH-HAT-OLIVE-XL_W0QQitemZ120427929743QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0a10608f Ed(This message has been edited by epalmer84)

Page 76 of the 12th edition of The Boy Scout Handbook notes the difference between the BSA and the U.S. Army methods of wearing the flag, and that the BSA method is in accordance with the U.S. Flag Code. Ed Palmer (yes, I know this is an old thread)

Leave portable music players at home and hold down noise in your troop and patrol. The Boy Scout Handbook, 12th edition, p.256

The Greater New York Councils have five lodges one per borough. The Pony Express Council and the Long Beach Area Council do not have lodges; they have their own honor societies. Ed Palmer

I'm sure if Charles Whitman's Eagle Scout had been revoked, it would have been news. Ditto for John Edward Robinson, Arthur Gary Bishop, Mark William Hofman or Russell Henderson. Especially for Governor Mark Sanford or Fred Phelps. Ed Palmer

I was going to spin a new thread but keep getting errors. > BSA is not a religous organization. (false) > But they were officially representing the BSA in the US Supreme Court. By being their representatives, they spoke for the BSA. BSA has not rescinded that position. So I submit, saying that BSA is not a religious organization IS an urban myth. I keep hearing this, but can never find any details. Supposedly, the BSA stated they are a religious organization; as best I can tell, this was a case in Kansas in the early 1990s. Ed Palmer

As to the BSA going co-ed... I have no idea where that is going. As I understand it, the GSUSA was upset when the BSA accepted girls into Exploring back in the 70s. The BSA does have a partnership with the American Heritage Girls, one of the more successful breakaway Scouting organizations. http://www.ahgonline.org/ http://www.scoutingnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/mou_bsa_ahg_bw.pdf Ed Palmer

>Totin' Chip, Firemen Chit don't really have patches. they are cards. the patches were created by local scouters to give the little kids who earn the cards something. Apparently someone in Supply thought these were a "good idea": http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&item=08597 http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&item=08598 http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&item=08599 Note that they are marked "This emblem is not for uniform wear", but since they are flap shaped, I have seen them on the pocket flap. Ed Palmer

Everything related to the Eagle BOR is in the Advancement Committee Guide Policies and Procedures. A nice summary is at: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/boyscouts/guideformeritbadgecounselors/rankadvancefaq.aspx Ed Palmer

Mike Rowe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rowe Ed Palmer

"dg98adams mentioned changing the name to "Scouts" should this happen...got me thinking of the green 1970s uniform I wore as a scout, where the patch above the right pocket (my right your left) indeed said "Scouts." An adult told me when I was a scout this was done in anticipation of BSA going coed (those from early/mid 1970s may recall that debate). " I still have a "Scouts/USA" strip and a decal. Ed Palmer

"A technique I learned in the military for positioning insignia, use double sided tape placed in a couple of strategic locations to hold the patch in place while sewing" I always used white glue. Position the patch, weight it, let it dry. After sewing, the first wash removes the glue. "they note that the Totin chit patch goes ON the right pocket" The insignia guide doe note that the "totin chip" patch goes on the right pocket: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/03.aspx But ScoutStuff notes that the Totin' Chip "emblem is not for uniform wear." http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&item=08597 Ditto for the Whittling Chip: http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&item=08598 And the Firem'n Chit: http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&item=08599 Ed Palmer

Did you look at the Learning for Life numbers down by about 25% from the last year. http://www.scouting.org/Media/AnnualReports/2008/12lflsummary.aspx Ed

We have some roll up tables that fit in a bag a bit larger than a chair. Something like these: http://www.amazon.com/RIO-High-Tech-Roll-Up-Table/dp/B000QESEGW Ed

Any brand name? Excelsior was one of the larger manufactures who made shoes for the BSA. I have one of their old tokens. See: http://www.sageventure.com/coins/misc.html

The problem is in conflicting guidelines: "The Boy Scouts of America does not recognize any secret organizations as part of its program. All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders." http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss01.aspx "The Order of the Arrow, recognizing the attractiveness of the unknown, utilizes the form of mystery. This shall not be interpreted, however, as justifying the withholding of any information regarding the Order from any person legitimately interested in investigating its nature, purpose, or method. Nothing in the Order shall be interpreted as interfering with any member's religious obligation. If anyone has questions about this policy, or about the Order of the Arrow, they should contact their local Boy Scout Council or Lodge Adviser." http://jumpstart.oa-bsa.org/safeguard.php "The Orders membership requirements have been added to the Handbook along with a rewrite of the section Why ceremonies? on page 30. The new text emphasizes that non-OA members should not attend the ceremonies. The lodge adviser is given a procedure to follow for nonmembers to learn about the ceremonies and for parents to ultimately decide whether they want their son to participate." http://www.oa-bsa.org/annc/opup/opup-06-05.pdf My 2007 edition of the Order of the Arrow Handbook has disappeared, so I can't quite the text from tat. Ed Palmer

There are seven Eagle Scouts who have been awarded the Medal of Honor: * Aquilla J. Dyess (deceased); Lieutenant colonel in the Marine Corps during World War II who was awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously for "conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life" during the Battle of Kwajalein * Robert Edward Femoyer (deceased); Army Air Forces navigator during World War II who was awarded the Medal of Honor * Eugene B. Fluckey (deceased); Navy submarine commander during World War II who was awarded the Medal of Honor * Mitchell Paige (deceased); Marine Corps hero who was awarded the Medal of Honor for actions during the Guadalcanal Campaign * Benjamin L. Salomon (deceased); Army dentist during World War II who was awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously for defense of his medical aid station during the Battle of Saipan * Leo K. Thorsness; U.S. Air Force fighter pilot, Vietnam War prisoner of war, Medal of Honor recipient[ * Jay Zeamer, Jr. (deceased); Army Air Forces pilot during World War II who was awarded the Medal of Honor For more notable Eagle Scouts and for references, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Eagle_Scouts_(Boy_Scouts_of_America) Ed Palmer