Engineer61

Well, Mom and I disagree on his swimming skill. I consider him a weak swimmer even in controlled situations. I would never allow him on open water, PFD or not. It's a river canoe trip... from one reservoir to another I don't know the particular river at all but I'm asking some of my GWH-type friends. I'm taking him for a second try on his swim test tomorrow....I get to see him since last summer.

So, Scout apparently failed the next level of swim test on Monday, would not jump into the pool. (It was a calm wave pool and the drop was 2 1/2 feet. However, an ASM called and said that Scout can still go on canoe trip this weekend, because he'll be assigned to the ASM's canoe. Am I missing something?

Maybe he's in it because his Dad was...a weird dynamic, since his Dad didn't promote Scouting either, beyond the "looks good on a resume/college application" theme, which is what Scout has basically taken off with... maybe it doesn't work if that's all your objective is? Dad was an Eagle/OA, but never did anything as an adult. Hmmm...I didn't think about the uniform... I've noticed the last few times a heavy sigh or "Oh man!" response to prompting him to get his uniform on for the weekly Troop meeting. He's definitely interested in video games and Legos and trombone (to a lessor extent). He's definitely NOT interested in girls ... at all! Can't say that emphatically enough :-P He respects the one girl trombone player in his 8th grade band, because "She plays really well." LOL

So, my 14 yo Scout is really stumping Mom. First he all about the camping trips, doing the "fun" MB's, if advancement requirements got met...ok....otherwise "eh". Now, he's not interested in Summer Camp (gave a flat out "no way, that place is gross"), hasn't done only the car camp and Webelos camp not interested in ANY of the "fun" MB's, only want's to do the MB's he needs for this next rank....but hasn't actually worked a second on any of them. He's done a ton of service hours for NJHS, but not helped on one Eagle Project. I gotta admit, he's got me baffled as well. I'm classifying it as "14". Is this a wait and see? Or is he sending a message in his own way.

"Perhaps why parents are the most likely to abuse kids." Overall, for all types of abuse...quite true. For sexual abuse ... not so ... gave you that data long ago Beav ... you just don't want to listen to it... and that's the problem in the organizations .. BSA, LDS, Catholic Church, Sports Orgs. E92 - No offense intended ... but it happens. Travel teams ... yep. BTDT. At least one parent was required to travel on the one I was associated with, no exceptions. But they all have their own rules ... and no regulations ... they don't even have to be affiliated with a league... that's where the crap happens like that guy from Penn State. They injure far too many players as well. Drop-off, pick-up parents... I didn't permit them with my younger teams, if the parent left, they got a call to come pick up their player ... with my older team, 1/2 the players drive themselves to practices and games. But even with that I never have fewer than 6 parents and 3 coaches at any given event...parents seem to want to be involved. I don't know that BSA (or any other child service organization) is going to do to fix it. BSA and the churches seem to have it the worst off...since they've spent so many years and so much effort trying to hide it. My own challenge will be if I ever go back to coaching the younger ages again. But I may decide to hang it up after my son is done...just to avoid the problem....and the injuries to my knees, elbows and shoulders.

"Do you do the this with your sports teams?" No, but I wish they would ... it's probably coming ... there are always parents watching us though and no overnights. The only kid I ever do anything one-on-one with is my own. We've had criminal background checks for several years now...several coaches banned for DUI's.

"a tactical arm of Planned Parenthood." Yep, that's how the LDS views them too. Took my daughter selling cookies door-to-door one year in my neighborhood...every LDS household slammed the door in her face, one telling that she (my 8 yo daughter) supported abortion because she was in GS. The Troop banned all door-to-door selling the next year.

"And after THAT sales pitch, every parent and boy would head for home and LOCK the DOOR!" Maybe that's what needs to happen ... ... but more than likely, it would put everyone on a closer watch and some of the pedo's might get the idea to get out of BSA. And BSA would gain a ton of credibility. Personally, BSA would be a lot better off by getting rid of a couple of primary CO groups.

"Now I am much more familiar with him I see his problem was one of his meds that depressed his appetite. His parents were desperate for him to get ANY calories into him. It is still a problem as he is pretty underweight. " Yep, BTDT. Anyone taking traditional medication for ADD or ADHD has this issue. There was a time where my son took in 90% calories AFTER 6PM when the meds wore off. The other 10% were at 6 AM. He would have to force himself to eat any kind of lunch...it took several years to get that to be consistent. The doctor prescribed diet for this scenario is quite literally, high fat, high protein, high starch...forget fruits and veggies for the most part (they are the "empty" calories).

"No, I think Beavah has it right - the best thing we can do is give kids as many trustworthy friends - adults and peers - in their lives as possible so they have someone they feel they can turn to if something isn't right." Yeah, let's grab the guitar, sit in a circle and go sing "Kum by yah". Some of you make me want to throw up from your cowardice... Try this...reality. Before every new Troop year, have an all parents meeting with the SM and someone from (at least) the District, and a local law enforcement officer. SM: "Welcome to BSA. We want to be as open and honest with you about our Troop and our Organization. Many of you have heard about past and recent issues concerning the sexual abuse of Troop members by adult leaders. While we attempt to prevent these kinds of incidents, they do still happen. Last year alone, X incidents of sexual abuse were reported in this Troop, X incidents in the district and X incidents nationwide. It is important that you all understand the risk you are taking by placing your boys in our care, and what you can do to help us to prevent such incidents, or help apprehend and prosecute those adults who are abusing children from within BSA." Then, there needs to be a lengthy education session to the parents separately, the boys separately and then the parents and boys together...so everyone knows what is going on and what to do about it. Anything short of this kind of open communcation, and the BSA is just another pedophile farm, like the Catholic Church.

He also said ... " ... I urge you to contact us at this time, if you havent already done so." When he should have said ... "...I urge you to contact the local law authority in your area and us at this time, if you havent already done so." That's the rub...it's still Scouts (the business) first...just worded a little nicer.

I do wish there was a solution to this.

My thoughts...and you all can correct me as needed. If I recall my reading, in the Oregon case, the files were not turned over, BSA acknowledged their existence. The CA case in unique on a couple of points. 1) The incidents are only 4 years ago, post YPT/background checks. (Which would point to the idea the YPT and background checks are not working...a big legal point.) and 2) The court as order the files turned over to the Plaintiffs, with victim names redacted. Now there is a report that the case will go to mediation, and the files need not be turned over... http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/ae2d2a3e4ff044e7a0521b5823267a6b/CA--Boy-Scouts-Lawsuit/

Perhaps some need to learn more about the childporn laws in your respective states. For example: Under Arizona law, Child Pornography is technically described as the crime of Sexual Exploitation of a Minor. Illegal images can be possessed in any number of ways, including print media, videotape, film, compact disc, and pictures downloaded from websites on the internet. Regardless of how the image is transmitted or stored, it is considered to be illegal under Arizona law and subject to some of the harshest penalties in the entire country. If the child depicted is less than 15 years old and you are convicted of this extremely serious offense, the law requires that the judge sentence you to a minimum of ten (10) years in the Arizona State Prison for each image.

Ok, so I don't get the rub ... If the SPL is the "leader" of all the Patrols (I mean, that's *is* the title), why *wouldn't* he be automatically invited to *all* "patrol" functions? Perhaps his function there would be to evaluate the performance of the Patrol Leaders...or is the performance of patrol leaders not important, only the time served?

Ok Beav, I'll play...I've had to deal with some of this....I have had to apply this to my baseball teams... 1. Kids sneak a beer along on a campout and share it. Call parents, send home, expel Scout(s) who brought alcohol from troop. 2. Kids get in a fight. Call all affected Scout's parents, if medical attention required, call authorities, expel Scout(s) from troop as needed. 3. Kid "vandalizes" the cabin wall with his knife (carves name, pokes hole in drywall, etc.) Call parents, notify property owner, expel Scout from troop. 4. Kid steals / "borrows" somethin' from another boy. Notify all affected Scout's parents, victim's parents have the options, send thief home, expel Scout from troop. 5. Kid shares a "sexted" picture of his girlfriend that she sent. Call Police. Any number of sex crimes may have been committed, (some of which are felonies) which they have to sort out. Expel Scout from troop. Notify District of sexual offense. Notify all parents. 6. Kid moons the camp director. Director's option to press charges. Expel Scout from troop. Remember Beav...you are overseeing and protecting ALL of the members of the troop...not just the offenders.

Troop probably has 8 a year....plus Summer Camp ... a couple are backpack, couple of snow camp...but those were cancelled this year...no snow up north. I'm not really keeping track of it...I think mine has gone on 2 or 3. He's losing interest from all the "bookwork" merit badges needed for Eagle...and the inordinate amount of community service he's doing for Scouts and NJHS.

"But if you want to really see what the 18-25yo crowd can do when given the opportunity, look to the young men and women in the military. They are truly heads and shoulders above their peers. " In certain cases, yes...in others...no... The case I'm most recently familiar with, the 20 year Airmen is a drunk and likes to choke his wife and chase other women. 'Nuff said.

I was at work in the design lab at ITT in Raleigh, NC. I was laid off three weeks later, Feb. 13, along with thousands of others. My father worked for Rockwell for many years...some on the cockpit section of Challenger. He cried.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

Pretty simple for me ... 1) Is the incident a felony in my locale? If yes, notify the authorities. 2) Is the incident a misdemeanor in my locale? If yes, notify the authorities. 3) Does the situation threaten a person or property? If yes, notify the authorities. 4) Does the incident violate a group or school rule? Notify the group or school. 5) Does my *not* notifying the authorities break a law? If yes, notify the authorities. 6) If I don't know ... get a second opinion...if that is from the authorities, then fine. I'm not a cop/prosecutor/judge/teacher/administrator, so I don't have the authority to sort out legalities...

"BTW, we're hoping not to have to press charges against 17. " Yep, just keep giving him that pass. What needs to happen is that charges DO need to be made. No one else in your community is apparently willing to confront the problem. The result is a non-functional member of society who is probably headed for a lot of bad things down the road... *because no one is challenging him in the here and now*.

Egyptians -v- Israel : Don't see a lot of one culture trying to mimic the other in ceremony on that one. Homo. sapiens -v- Homo. ??? : I don't recall anything in my Anthro course about wars between sub species. But who knows?

"B-P said, "Never do anything that a boy can do for himself." THat about sums it up." Indeed, and times have changed from 1910 and there are different rules now.

Uh....at Event #1, that kid should have been gone. "...throwing them across the room..." You have some very brain dead adult leaders.

Short Answers: MONEY - CO requires adults to handle all financials. ATTENDANCE - Boys (usually) handle signup, but roster is turned over to Adults. RESERVATIONS, DATES - All activity dates are approved by the adults based on school and other outside schedules. (No trips prior or during school standards testing...etc.)