Engineer61

I actually have two older teens as well (18 and 14)...Scout (12) is the trailer. This is a horse of a different color, since now he's sabotaged a lab partner.

Unbelievable!!! But I just knew it would happen again. Scout sandbagged homework again! Last evening, Scout had a science assignment that called for him (and his partner) to complete for a lab today. Scout failed to disclose and went to the weekly meeting instead. So, now he's left his lab partner in the lurch for a grade as well as himself. Labs count as tests, weighted 90%.

Thank you for the insight Packsaddle. I do recall quite clearly that my workload outside of class easily tripled when I went from HS to College... ...it was unpleasant for some time.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

To clarify...according to the parents, to swear a duty to God under the Oath was forbidden. As such, the entirety of the Oath then became tainted. Thanks for the input Beavah....

A question recently popped up from my Scout....would seem like a good topic for here. One of the boys that crossed over with him dropped scouting after the first meeting last fall. My boy wanted to know why. Unknown to my Scout, the boy dropped because he and his parents are Buddhists from India and could not abide by the Oath/Law, etc. Even my wife did not know this fact, but I work with many people from many different religions and I did confirm it. I am a bit conflicted on how to respond. Thoughts?

"There is lots of cheering and positive exclamation for those attending. Then they focus on those who are not going, asking (in front of everyone), "Why not? Whats so much more important than this activity? Are you dead? Sick? Then why not come?" Ah. So teaching kids to succumb to peer pressure is a positive. Gotta erase that note in the parents manual.

So, I guess I'm not a man since I was not a Scout? An interesting concept. Thanks for the character assassination.

"Note: the 1974 case of the Mormon doctrine of discrimination against blacks brought the Boy Scouts into a serious confrontation with the NAACP. The Boy Scouts of America did not discriminate because of race, but LDS sponsored troops did have a policy of racial discrimination." This is the basic equivalent of BSA National instituting a policy, but not enforcing it at the troop level, unless a stink is raised. While the LDS proclaims multi-ethnic acceptance within the LDS, it is, by and large, not accepted by the typical member. None of the LDS troops that I have seen in my area (a very large percentage of the total number of troops) have any non-white members. Unfortunately, this stigma affects the non-LDS affiliated troops as well. Virtually all of the non-white Cubs in the past two years have continued on. Of those that did, one dropped after the first meeting...on religious grounds. From outside appearances, it looks like the BSA has become a requirement for LDS boys by the LDS, while the girls are prohibited from participating in GSA by the LDS. In fact when my daughter was in GSA, none of the LDS families in the area would by GS cookies...she was told this was because GSA promoted/endorsed abortion.

"Gettin' good grades is advancing yourself. There's nothing wrong with it, eh? It should be encouraged. Just not as a "highest priority." " "I'm with Beavah here. Now, there may be more to this particular story, but frankly Beavah's right about the general idea. Putting your academic advancement above all other obligations is selfish." Huh? Really? So you're saying that it's perfecting fine to raise the next village idiot, as long as he went Scouting?!?!? Talk about irresponsible priorities!

An interesting set of comments. I can say from personal experience that I don't believe I've ever encountered a "Course Syllabus" at any level of my education the ever specified all assignments and their specific due dates. In fact, the only HARD dates that were ever given were the dates of mid-terms and finals. In my middle school and high school years, a syllabus was not even provided. This has been consistent with my older children's school experience as well. (Scout is the youngest.) I consider this a lesson in the proper use of re-prioritization. In this case, my Scout failed, but he learned a lesson. In this school district, assignment are even given over the mid-semester breaks, sometimes for the semester breaks for full year courses. I simply refer to it as "Teacher's Prerogative" just as my boss can exercise "Management Prerogative" and reassign my design tasks/requirements/dates as he sees fit. I did not view the assignment to have been unreasonable in any way.

So, I went a dug for a little more... 1) Scout knew assignment was due. 2) Scout knew that assignment could not be completed on time if he went on campout. 3) Scout knows OUR priorities...education first, extras second. So, it appears the Scout sandbagged it and knew he was doing so. Now ironically, this is the same Scout that you all gave this kind of response to his oversleeping on said campout. "When I was a Scoutmaster, I always told the youth in the troop that each choice they made had consequences, the consequences could be good or they could be bad, but they made the decision. The younger scouts always asked what that meant, and I always explained the good and bad consequences of a decision. The older scouts had it figured out and would live with their decision and not complain. " I could not agree more ... decisions have consequences. Bad decisions have bad consequences. At this point the Scout has been warned that this will not happen again. To those that wish to minimize the importance and priority of education, (and I am amazed how many of you there are) my response is ... no education, no job....no matter how many Eagle's you have.

"Is it common for the Troop to plan a campout a week prior? I can understand planning duty rosters, menus, and activities a week prior, but was it not scheduled earlier?" Yeah, it's been pretty much the norm...sometimes maybe two or three weeks for something more involved.

"Yeh know, I'm not sure priorities are always that cut-and-dried, eh? " Yes...they are! Priorities are absolutely cut and dried. Yes...I have canceled vacations over long weekends because of school commitments...and work commitments. That's why I don't bother to make those kinds of plans anymore. I've even sent the rest of the family on the fun outing and stayed to make my work commitments. Fun is a want....not a need. Scouting is a want...not a need. Yes...it was a big hit on his grade for the quarter...one letter grade...I am more concerned about the precedent that it sets, however. Only 4 weeks to try to make up the damage.

So....some more detail. 1) The assignment was handed out Friday. This is an advanced language arts class (which he chose to enroll in), so additional work is demanded and expected. 2) The assignment was doable in the time allotted, but not less. (Had he been here to work on it.) "So let me see if I understand this - a Scout is given a homework assignment on Friday that is due Tuesday and is expected to give up a camping trip that's been planned and prepared for since long before the writing assignment was assigned? " Yes...that is exactly what is expected and required!!! Education first, extracurricular's second. Always. Education is a requirement, Scouting is strictly an option. The campout was "planned" one week prior, we're not talking about a big once in a lifetime event. There was neither time nor resources to work on the assignment on the campout... online references and research were required. My Scout is an APL, but that is no excuse. "Somehow I feel that your Scout would have come up with another excuse not to do the assignment if there had not been a Scout outing." I disagree since this has not happened before. "Had it not been a Scouting function but a long-planned family weekend away, would you feel the same if the Scout said "Sorry, we can't go on this family trip because I have this homework assignment that was just handed to me today and it's due Tuesday?" I solve that one easy....we never vacation during the school year, only on school breaks. Education first....vacation second. His was the only one late...so the argument that he would not have finished it is moot....30 others could...so could he.

I don't know if I'd vote no on the Scout...but if the parents intended to use the car are a motivation for Eagle, I'd definitely vote no on them!

There are many other factors with the LDS involvement in BSA that results in conditions that I do not approve of....I live in a heavily Mormon region. 1) Extremely low participation by minorities in the region...none in the LDS-based troops. Even though the local population is 40% non-Caucasian. 2) Attempts to indoctrinate Christian but non-LDS scouts to LDS. 3) Warning that I have received from parents of the LDS allowing known sex offenders into the BSA troops as leaders. (We know about Oregon.) As far as the "Files" are concerned...if there was no intent to cover up anything, then why did the files exist to begin with? If it were to be open, then the matter should have been brought directly to the local organizations so that infiltration could have been prevented there.

Oh, I'm venting today! Scout spent most of last Monday and Tuesday night working on a writing assignment that was due Tuesday morning. Assignment was given Friday. Instead of facing the music and saying, "I have homework, I have to skip the campout." Scout sandbags and goes on the campout. School first! Scouting second....or third....or fourth. Grrrr.

Thanks all. I pretty much had it dead on. Scout might not like it, and Mama Bear might not like it...but that's the way it is. We had a saying in my college marching band (considered the best the in US)... "To be early is to be on time." "To be on time is to be late." "To be late is to be LEFT." Out of 300 members, no one ever missed the bus or plane. ================== That particular morning, the only activity was to break camp and head home. I'm not too worried about him being involved in anything "high energy". He is strictly in Scouting for the camping...he could care less about advancement, let alone Eagle. (This puts him at odds with Mom, since her father and brother Eagle'd.) He'd be content to take three or four camping trips a year and be done with the rest of it. ================== As for handling Mama Bear...I know how to bob and weave!

I agree in Evmori...the LDS/BSA relationship should be re-evaluated....and then terminated with extreme prejudice.

So, I had a rather testy conversation with my wife about our Scout's last campout (last weekend). Apparently, he did not wake up when his tent buddy tried to wake him, so he didn't get breakfast. So, my response was, "...sounds like xxxx's problem" which is pretty much what I've read here...it was long ride home (5 hrs) on an empty stomach. Of course, wifey went all "Momma bear" and jumped on my case...so I asked him if his buddy tried to wake him up...he said yes, but he wanted more sleep...so, I just gave the "duh-look" and left it at that. This is the third straight campout that he's been on where this has happened....needless to say, he's not a morning person...at all. So, did I miss the general flow of how the campouts work?

I don't suppose that the boys who aren't camping out have simply lost interest in camping...and without a parent to push the issue, then you end up with boys that don't camp. 6th grade has shown me (from my three kids) to be a time of self-re-prioritization. Different opportunities avail themselves... My Scout is very into the camping part and really wants nothing to do with the whole MB thing. He'll do the "fun" badges (computers, electronics, music, etc) but want's nothing do to with any of the Eagle requirements, in spite of Mom's pushing the issue.

"I think moosetracker is dead on. Our main issue is new parents. They don't see the program as something that important and have an apathetic attitude and the trickles down to their Scouts. " Interesting perspective from the Troop side of the fence. I think the message received by the parents might be a little different ... "Patrol led. Boy led." That is the very first thing we were told when we walk through the door. After that, it's the chain of command and committees that the parents have to negotiate through...and yes, you need a manual just to do that. The main message delivered to most of the parents at this point is "Parents - Keep Out - We'll let you know if we need you to drive somewhere." Now, if you do happen to decide that you want to come in and volunteer, you have to break into the inner circle of the existing parents. I can see where that could be easy falling off a log, or as difficult as overthrowing a government. It gets worse if you weren't a Scout as a kid. BTDT

Ok, so I won't win any points for this...I had to look up what a Dutch Oven was. Never seen one used.

From my own Scout's attitude on it, few of the service projects are viewed by him as fun. For him they are strictly work that takes away from his weekend free time.

From Twocub's post... Last Saturday -- Day-long service project helping a local non-profit Last Sunday -- Eagle Court of Honor and Troop Committee Meeting Tonight -- PLC Next Weekend -- Philmont shakedown trip Next Saturday -- an outing with the local orienteering club and an Eagle project work day. Next Sunday -- A merit-badge related outing for guys 1C and up Following weekend -- troop campout Following Saturday -- OA callout Following Sunday -- Jamboree troops meet So, if I read this right, you've scheduled stuff for at least three full consecutive weekends. I'd say you're a little over scheduled, especially this time of year.