Engineer61

As I view it, the problem with penetrating any GOBN, whether it be Scouts, School Organizations (Band/PTA/PTSO) or even a Church Group is that depending on the strength of the GOBN, a tremendous amount of time and energy is required to succeed. At some point the trade off between the frustration of penetrating the network and the potential good of helping becomes negative.

On the humorous side....there is an old golfing joke that goes.... If you are caught on the course in a lightning storm, go out in the open away from trees and hold your 1-iron straight up over your head. You will be completely safe as even God can't hit a 1-iron!

Couple-o-Thoughts : Growing up we always used an AM radio to detect lightning and tornadoes. Tuned it to the bottom of the AM band (no stations) and turned the volume up. Single "crackles" are lightning, constant static is from the electrostatic discharge from a tornado. My electromagnetics professor in college confirmed it worked. Where I live now, if you get a thunderstorm coming in, you'll get 5,000 - 20,000 air-to-ground lightning strikes per hour across the line. And if you get the rain, you better make sure you camped off the wash line, or you find yourself in a flash flood. At one car camp last fall, a T-storm rolled in during the camp setup...(there was only a 50% chance of scattered T-storms that day) one pop-up was destroyed before it even arrived at the site. Visibility went to 10-feet in the dry-line dust storm. I'm glad I wasn't there for it. The good thing about it is there are no tornadoes here...the occasional micro-burst though.

Scoutfish, Yeah, Troopmaster sounds like it...flaky program...

This whole thread reminds me of a humorous parable. As Jesus was holding back the townspeople from stoning the prostitute, he turned to the crowd and said, "He who is without sin may cast the first stone!" Off from the side, a large rock whizzes in, striking the prostitute squarely in the head...killing her instantly. Jesus whips around, takes a quick glance and screams, "Ma! Knock it off already...I was trying to make a point here!"

From Weather.com By definition, thunder is the loud noise that occurs when atmospheric gases are suddenly heated by a discharge of lightning. I don't think I'd minimize thunder very much... Electrically speaking, tents are excellent conductors...aluminum or carbon fiber poles tied directly to ground with metal tent stakes. Of course at the energies we are talking about, the line between insulator and conductor is largely non-existent. Wet, dust-impregnated nylon might make a Faraday cage, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. For me...when it calls for wet...I get.

Clocks - Coldplay Feels So Good - Chuck Mangione Locomotive Breath - Jethro Tull (ok...just kidding on that one!)

Well, I don't know which Committee(s) she's on, but I know my wife spends a lot of time keeping all the Advancement Records up to date. I end having to debug the stupid program when it fouls up or needs updating.

I don't know that I'd cite BP's "goal was that we as citizens of the world learned we're all in this together..." since is is known that BP embraced fascism, and is cited by Jeal as writing in his diary in 1939, "Lay up all day. Read Mein Kampf. A wonderful book, with good ideas on education, health, propaganda, organization etc.and ideals which Hitler does not practise himself." BP was also an admirer of Mussolini.

"To be very honest I'm happy when the dogs make a fuss when the Jehovah Witnesses or the young men from the LDS Church knock at the door! It provides me a good excuse not to have to talk with them. " My mother told me long ago the best way to rid the doorstep of Jehovah Witnesses and LDS is to pull out your flag and ask them to say the Pledge of Allegiance with you...apparently it is a sore point with both religions. I haven't tried it...

What a humorous thread.... Everyone is in an uproar about the ELCA allowing homosexual pastors...well if BSA wants to drop the ELCA as a sponsor...fire away... But for heavens sake, don't watchdog the other religious organizations that have far bigger problems... Comical....

Wow Mark... So, I've browsed most of the post on this thread... Your story is why I do not get involved in Scouting with my Scout's troop....it's totally GOBN "Good Old Boys Network" and since I was never a Scout, they have made it clear that I have nothing to contribute that they want (except dues of course) I'd say, offhand, that between the secret meetings and the BOR issues your son is having that the two of you are being shown the exit in a rather forward way. The majority of the parents seem to want their troop run in a manner that it contradictory to what you want for your son. Ii would expect that the level of conflict with you and non-cooperation with your son will only escalate. While you vs. the Troop might be a fair fight, it's not fair when the Scout is caught in the crossfire. Find another Troop, if you can.

From Eagle1982 "Hmmm, I don't accept that. I will not accept that from my boss. I will not allow my job to run my life." Must be nice to be independently wealthy. Most of us can't afford to be fired for insubordination. As for slippery slopes, they usually aren't that slippery at the top...it's the middle that gets ya and the quick stop at the end only hurts for a split-second, if you're going fast enough. And generally, I don't take advice to seek counseling off of forums....but you might consider it. As far as Middle School grades, well, they aren't as fake as you might think. If you want to get into advanced classes in HS in my district, you had to have taken advanced courses in middle school. BTDT. So it's not hyperbole if the effects are real....and are they. Sherminator...thanks for the comments... After many more conversations and evaluations, we've realized that there has been multiple communication issues that caused this comedy of errors. There are plenty of resources for assignment schedules for him to use...and he is expected to use them. He also has to priortize his activites. No gaskets were blown in the experience. (This message has been edited by Engineer61)

I would vote no on this.

Peri, you wrote... "In your complaint about your son and the assignment, you use peer pressure as an argument--i.e. all the other kids did it, why couldn't you? Peer pressure for positive things is a good thing." That is false. Blatantly so. Why? Because I did not use this as an argument to my son. I specified as a comparison in the discussion to indicate that the assignment was reasonable to complete. No, I don't believe that peer pressure IS EVER GOOD. Forsaking individuality takes away our greatest potential.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

We treat Scouting solely as a means to an end. Not the reverse. Scouting's priorities are not necessarily our priorities. That should be obvious to you by this entire thread. Scouting, to some extent, does not mesh with our goals. But we will tolerate it as long as our son continues to enjoy it, maintains his academic performance and continues develop the moral and social characteristics that we follow. Unfortunately, there is not a significant alternative....so we have to tolerate the negatives to gain the positives. (This message has been edited by Engineer61)

LOL! So, with all of the exactness in every other aspect of Scouting, you'd like to maintain that this part of Scout Law is randomly constructed with no more thought than alphabetical order? That's a good one! Thanks for the chuckle!

I'd agree with Calico on the whole "monitor my kid" for me...I wouldn't do it either. In general, participation in activities (from Scouts to video games) are dependent on school performance. In addition to such "negative motivators", I also support and perform "positive motivators" for excellence....just as my employer does.

"Engineer61, I'm curious how yeh reconcile that with the Scout Oath and Law?" I don't. Because the Oath and Law are not the overriding laws of my family. I am. However, if I had to...I'd start and stop right here... ====================================================== A Scout is Obedient. A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them. ====================================================== Note that Troop is dead last and more notably behind School. My Mom once told me that Parenting is not a Democracy...it is a Benevolent Dictatorship, with her in charge.

Thanks for making a very important point... "Drop everything for..." Depending on your profession...that is exactly how the world works. By and large, priorities are set in the workplace by others. One's ability to adjust to changing priorities is critical. Personally, I wish the schools would pick up the pace a bit...

"School is important, but as one of the earlier posters said, what if it was a family trip to visit a sick relative, or say a religious retreat for Confirmation (if you're Catholic)? Would you have felt the same way? A high stakes assignment should be given with a little discretion and warning. " As I'd already stated, if the activity is voluntary or avoidable...it's school first...period. We don't vacation during the school year for that very reason. Death in the family or some other health crisis is a bit of a different level. Teachers would extend deadlines for that without issue. Where do you draw the line as a teacher....Scouting might be important to one student and an all-weekend-cartoon marathon might be equally important to another....or an out of town sports tournament. And as I stated earlier, every other student completed the assignment on time...so my Scout should have been able to do the assignment had he not chosen to shirk the responsibility. So is there an implication that Scouts are somehow privileged and the rules do not apply to them?

Peri, The fact that EVERY student except for one completed the writing assignment on time, says that the length and complexity of the assignment was reasonable to those students that were able (and/or willing) to put the time in. The lab report was not to be written outside of class with a partner. What was assigned was the pre-lab questions and the preparation of certain materials that were to be brought in for the lab. Each lab partner was to bring in certain items. I have done similar activities myself in middle school. The school in question is nothing more than a public middle school in a school system with a history of achievement. It's the kind of district that people intentionally move in to and teachers want to teach in. The parents highly value education and expect our teachers to teach and our students to learn. The fact is that my wife and I will not tolerate sub-par performance in school by any of our kids because of extra-curricular activities interfering with the completion of school work. Your Eagle might get you in the door. Your Eagle might tip the job in your favor. But if you don't have the education, ten Eagles won't make a difference. (This message has been edited by Engineer61)

In a nutshell....organization. Granted, I don't buy into the Patrol Method...but I think that is more because our Troop is so disorganized and inconsistent. If you are considering a troop, go to more than one meeting....I'd suggest three. That way you can hopefully see them on their good and bad nights. Some things to look for: 1) Is the same SM/ASM there at each meeting? 2) Is the same Scout leading each meeting? 3) Is there a meaningful number of older Scouts at the meetings? (That means more than 2 or 3) Good luck...I hope you do better than we did.

"Sandbag me once, shame on you. Sandbag me twice, shame on me" Shame on me? Nuh-uh. Funny, when I was growing up...if you sandbagged my parents twice, you'd see the proverbial gallows being built. As for resources....there was plenty of both IF he chose not to attend the Scout Meeting. I believe in baseball justice... 3 strikes and you're out. School first....extras second.

My oldest is a girl, middle is a boy. So I have all the requisite experiences to work from. Oldest and Youngest are practically identical in demeanor. No, that's not a positive statement. Good news is the girl is 18 and starting to show glimpses of progress. The middle is the saint...does what he supposed to with little or no input from anyone. I'm pretty much to my fed-up line with this nonsense. Considering overseas military boarding school options ...