Engineer61

No. I don't believe it should.

Well, the consensus on the MB's is that your screwed...so be it. While you might be able to offset the lack of swimming proficiency with other controlled aquatic activities, I'd personally be more worried about signal this less-than-proficient performance might send to the Scout and the Scout's parents. I would maintain that achieving the Swimming MB in this case may signal a false sense of water security to the Scout and the parent. This could potentially result in the Scout being involved in non-Scouting water activities with his family or friends that might not, in fact, be safe for the Scout. While for me, it would not be a moral dilemma, I could see where for some, it might be.

It's a simple solution Bev. You search everything, and if you find it, the kid is gone. I don't care "how much he's worked for it". That is the most lame excuse yet. In addition to the relaxed search laws for school personnel (cause not required, only a reasonable expectation of finding an illegal substance or item), my State Law on drugs in school is simple... 13-1411 Possession, use, sale or transfer of marijuana, peyote, prescription drugs, dangerous drugs or narcotic drugs or manufacture of dangerous drugs in a drug free school zone; violation; classification; definitions (F) All school personnel who observe a violation of this section shall immediately report the violation to a school administrator. The administrator shall immediately report the violation to a peace officer. It is unlawful for any school personnel or school administrator to fail to report a violation as prescribed in this section. Not much gray area there. All this secrecy, "keep it in the family" crap is what caused the Oregon problem. Meth can and does addict (or kill) in one dose. And, by chance, if one of those medicated ADD/ADHD boys gets a dose it will be lights out almost immediately.

No Beavah...it was not a joke.

Behavior contract? Talk about sticking your heads in the sand...up to your ankles. Both of my school districts (Elem and HS) have published Zero Tolerance policies to drugs, alcohol and firearms. Every other district I have come in contact with has the same policy...it's been that way since the 70's. State Law in my state basically suspends Civil Rights on search and seizure on school grounds. Many other states have the same laws. Your talking about illegal drugs and children ... how can you possibly justify that? Does BSA have the license to act as some kind of drug halfway house? Scouting isn't school? No kidding...I figured that out already. But funny, I was under the impression that Scouting was something of a higher moral standard than public school. At least that's what you guys seem to keep banging the drum on... Scout Law, Scout Oath. Or is this just a collection of words to get membership? So when that kid with the meth or the joint gets some 11 year old hooked on drugs, exactly what is the stance of BSA then? Oh let me guess, that's the parents responsibility to somehow protect their kid from someone they really don't even know because the troop is "boy led", never mind that they were expecting (with all the YPT stuff) that the adult leadership was doing that. I learn more everyday....thanks. And no, I didn't say what I really think...I held back.

My question kinda merges another thread about Camp Worship Service... What happens if a Taoist (or some other non-Christian) doesn't attend a camp worship service that is Christian based.

If this were a school trip...what would they do? They would call the Police immediately and have them search. That is what you should do.

Great! That means the KKK and Aryan Nation can get the same thing! Juries are idiots.

Acco wrote: "Scouting is not a democracy. Many folks seem to forget that. " Here! Here! And the adults are in charge!

Sailingpj wrote: "There are plenty of times that I have sailed my laser (a type of catboat) with no other boats around, and nobody else on the boat with me. I was safe because I know the conditions, I knew my limitations, and I used my brain to decide whether or not to go out. Now, how I discovered my limitations is a matter for another discussion all together." Here here! And there is the fundamental issue with most people, especially anyone with not enough years under their belt... "I knew my limitations"

SMT said... "Sorry Lisabob & Engineer61, I just don't buy the "uniform is a deterrent" argument. I have yet to find a Scout who quits because of the uniform. " Funny, I did not say that...what I said was... "Actually, if you asked boys who did *not* join scouts why the were not interested, you'd probably find the majority would say that they did not want to wear the uniform. " A different statement entirely.

Meetings are full Class A's. Usually a mad scramble to find all the pieces in the ten minutes after homework and dinner is done and the time to leave for the meeting.

I would have done exactly what ASM #1 did. "Boys will be boys?" I've never been in a fist fight in my life. Never seen the need to beat someone up. ADD/ADHD is NEVER and excuse for this behavior....I have one of each in my household and I never tolerate that as a justification for anything other than a big appetite at the end of the day.

"True, but since the rank patch is for the youth, we adults wear the knot. People can tell an Eagle Scout, even without the patch." Other Scouts might, but non-Scouts wouldn't know it from Adam.

Globe Temp is a considerable factor in places like the desert SW where your temp is 110 but your RH is 10%...solar heating is a big factor.

Actually, if you asked boys who did *not* join scouts why the were not interested, you'd probably find the majority would say that they did not want to wear the uniform.

If you had to pick one fundamental to do on long campouts, what would it be? My choice is change your socks every day. My Scout didn't ... and came home with a brilliantly red case of athlete's foot...took weeks to clear it. His excuse, "no one told us we had to". Hello? SM's, ASM's, SPL's, PL's where are you?

"Have an add on that takes place when a scout is on his own time - and most likely solo - unable to perform any necessary SSD or SA measures." "You can't always have a buddy with you. You can't always have 2 lifeguards or responcible people watching you. You don't always plan ahead and carry a life jacket with you on a solo hike." "Again, not while at or participating in any BSA function, but when away. " ========================================================================================================== I would categorize this as a form of "false sense of security". Because the person performs an activity safely under controlled conditions, there is an inherent mindset to believe that the same activity can be performed under all conditions. Therein lies the danger. My Scout is 12, and in spite of his successful completion of the Scout swimming safety test, he is not allowed to swim alone in my pool, in spite of his argument to the contrary, he is a weak swimmer. As a result of his passing the test, he has become *over* confident in his abilities.

Whenever I read an article like this, I tend to think that is a situation where the primary cause of the result was the overconfidence of one or more of the victims. There are examples of this every year in the boating accidents on our lakes and reservoirs. We all recently read about the 16 year old girl who attempted to perform a solo circumnavigation that failed when she suffered a mast failure in the southern Indian Ocean. In my locality there are dozens of mountain rescues every year caused by people who were overconfident in their abilities or condition. I suppose this is all part of the human condition. Some people know they have limitations and know what they are...while others either don't know they have limitations or misjudge their abilities.

"Horse Hockey" ?? I'll see your horse hockey and raise you "Buffalo Chips". I have work far more hours per week than my father did. You either work the hours, or your employer finds someone who will. (And yes, I am an exempt employee, so that time is for free.) And most mothers are working as well. My wife will start again next fall. Couple that with the SPFs (Single Parenting Factors) and School Work and you have a time black hole. So to simply dismiss the time element is downright myopic on your part... Regardless, of all the activities that my kids have been and are involved in, Scouting takes more time and more resources that all of the other activities combined, and yet it benefits only one child. One evening every week and every Saturday. If by chance you volunteer, like my wife, there is 10-20 hours a week the parent will spend on Scouting, depending on what you volunteer to do. Someone should right a book, "Care and Feeding Your SM ... What to Expect from Scouting". QED

If what you teach cannot be applied to your life beyond Scouting, then your lessons are strictly academic.

I just realized how happy I am that they our troop doesn't Scout in the summer. I'd see my wife even less in summer with all the records keep she does. No, 9 months is just fine with me.

Yeah, those "breaks" (sorry for the pun) happen in life....have to get used to them because they will happen frequently. Stay home and heal. Nothing nearly as painful as swelling up in a cast because you overworked it and busted the stitching going on at the break. I have a pretty ugly wrist from that very thing.

Nah, Beavah, I won't float with you on that...even when you're camping in snow, you can build shelter, start a fire to stay warm. (Grew up in the snow belt.) You can't "build an air conditioner" out here, unless you happen to find a cave...not recommended...the coyotes, bears and mountain lions like them.

Well, if your smart in the SW US, you'll stay out of the 110+ 10% humidity. You'll dehydrate just breathing. Not to mention the summer storms with 10000-15000 lightning strikes per hour. Water time?? That's pretty funny....in my back yard maybe.