Engineer61

I second, third and fourth the idea of multiple injectors, especially on campouts where you are more than minutes away from EM help. I daughter always carried two in her school backpack and 4 always went on field trips/overnight trips etc. If you are in a full-blown attack situation, one EpiPen can solve the problem or only last 15 minutes, so if you are off in the deep somewhere, you need more than one. The high-powered anti-histamines (Rx Only) don't come into play until much later (1-3 hrs), after the lungs have had a chance to clear. I would also think that guaranteed communications is a must...most of the camping locations that my Scout attends have no wireless communcations coverage...so adventure type campouts/hikes might have to be limited, unless someone is carrying a radio or sat-phone. The one thing I want to stress the most it that this situation should only be handled by adults. At no time should another Scout be responsible for this issue. The victim will most likely be unconscious (or if he isn't, aware enough to know what needs to be done and how). An improperly administered EpiPen can be lethal in and of itself.

For the band people: Given the time to do only one, band or Scouts the youth's time is better off in? =============================== That depends on the kid, and the kid's objectives. If the kid wants to become a musician or music educator, or certain engineering or medical fields. Scouts it pretty much 2nd Chair (to use the musician's term). If on the other hand, the kid want to be a Smoke Jumper, Wilderness S&R, Special Forces or Park Ranger, Scouting should be the bigger priority.

From the the BTDT side of the fence....I have several lethal food allergies and my daughter has a lethal peanut allergy. It is imperative that you find out exactly how severe the Scout's peanut allergy is, and what measures are to be taken. Usually, a diagnosed peanut allergy involves the use of Epipen (Epinephrine Auto Injection) to counteract an attack. The patient will usually NOT be able to react quickly enough to inject himself/herself. ALL adults that participate in Troop activities should be trained on the use of the Epipen. It is a trival device to use, however if used improperly it can completely ineffective. Epipen trainers are included in every Rx of the Epipen, so the parents should have them. I would be remiss if I did not say they are not completely accurate, as they do not accurately represent the "kick" from the loaded spring in the real device. As a general rule, it should be assumed that any allergic response to a peanut allergy will be lethal. By that I mean that when people with a peanut allergy have a response, it is almost always anaphylaxis (closing off the airway), the only real variable is how long the response takes to set in. In may be minutes, it may be seconds. As for the level of exposure that is takes for an attack to be triggered, that varies as well. There are degrees of exposure that will trigger the response that vary from person to person AND that trigger level can vary (up AND down) over time. An exposure level that might not trigger a response one time, might cause a full blown response the next. My daughter had a friend with the allergy in elementary school who went into anaphylactic shock 20 seconds after sitting down at a table in the cafeteria. She had brushed her hand across the table to clear some crumbs away and got a film of peanut butter on her hand...she NEVER ingested it...her hand immediately swelled and she hit the floor 10 seconds later. In addition to peanuts, there is a potential that those with peanut allergy also have a tendency to allergies to tree nuts, soy and other beans. Peas are also a common cross-allergy. The obvious peanut sources are easy to spot...it's the hidden ones that you have to watch our for...like... Chinese food. Burger King - they use a peanut oil blend in the deep fryer A big key is to read labels before you buy or use something.

Yes. TBDBITL (tah-'bit-ell) = The Best Damn Band In The Land Yes, the perfomance and physical guidelines are pretty tough. The summer before I my tryout, I was working in a meat-packing plant and running 7-9 miles a day, then practicing 2-3 hours of trumpet.

Ok....so here is a thread that I can speak to from a point of personal expertise. Yes, I was the lead trumpet player in my HS Marching Band. Yes, we were competitive in area and state competitions...in fact it was during my years in the band in which the competitve tradition was founded. I was also a member in The Ohio State University Marching Band, reported as the largest all brass and percussion band in the world. So, starting from the original post... Band - Twice weekly meetings - Huh? Not in any marching band I was associated with. 1 week band camp, 5 class periods per week, + 4-6 before/after school 3 hr sessions per week + football games + pep rallys + competitions. Scouts - once a week Band - lead chair - No! MB's are adult led. Even those 'sectional' sessions are adult directed (what to do) with a section leader (student) doing it. Scouts - Boy led - Sometimes Band - Connected to school, non-band friends, community at large. Scouts - Connected only to Troop, limited connection to community at large. Band - Large immediate group. (130 at my son's school, OSUMB is 225) Scouts - Small immediate group. (60 in the Troop) I have two sons, one in MB that never considered Scouting as an option and my Scout. The biggest thing I as a difference between MB and Scouts (as someone else pointed out) takes specific technical (musical) accomplishment over a long period of time with personal reward at the end. In Scouting, you complete a merit badge, then move on to the next...you might stick to one of them if it suits you, but it is as a personal pursuit. The only real common thread between all Scouts is camping, which you do only on a limited basis. There was a comment about college MB and having to be music majors. In the OSUMB, only 10% of the band are music majors on average...there is usually a larger percentage of engineeering majors than music majors. True "long-hair" music majors tend to poo-poo of MB. From my knowledge of other Big-Ten and Pac-10 colleges, that trend seems to hold. Engineer61 OSUMB '79 Fixed spelling error....typing too fast! (This message has been edited by Engineer61)

Haven't figured out a tune yet... So, last Saturday, Scout goes off on a CS project. Before they leave, they set a time for pickup. Mom and I go off, do "Saturday" stuff...prep a room for painting, etc. We get back to the pickup about 15 min early...no biggie. Pickup time comes and goes...eh ok, they are a little late. 15 min ... 30 min ... finally a call from the ASM that the ASM's boy decided he wanted to stay and do something or eat or whatever ... Mom was not happy ... I did "Duck and Cover"

SPORTS: - Not everyone will "make the team". That depends on the level of play...every Youth Rec league I know of has a mandatory play requirement. We coaches have a rule in my Baseball League, "everyone sits once before anyone sits twice". It is an enforced rule where violations get coaches ejected. At HS levels, it is another issue...just as every kid doesn't have the drive or ability to make Eagle, not every kid has the drive or ability to play varsity. Sports: - You either play, or you don't. Team manager? Score keeper? Not the same thing. See above.

SCOUTING: + Everyone can earn First Class, with or without help. And help will be there. Gotta watch those infinitives...had he gone into Scouting, my oldest son would have never even earned Tenderfoot. He has a vehement disinterest in camping in anything but an RV ... refuses even to consider the family campouts.

I love it when a plan comes together! So, my Scout was all packed up when I got home from work...dropped him off and when to other son's football game (he plays Baritone in the Band.) Any whoooo....pick up Scout on Sunday and he's fuming! Seems no one bothered to check the "tent" he took...turned out to be just the fly! Seems the tent had gotten packed away in another sack because *it* had been split up on *its* last campout. I guess he had to pitch some spare tent they keep in the trailer. I guess one of the ASM's had to have a talk with him at the campout cause he was popping off so much. As soon as the temp in my garage gets below 110 (another couple weeks at least), he get to pull out and organize ALL the gear...

Well there were 5 pages of teams on the list. Looks like both LDS and non-LDS participants.

"That said if your point is to provide negative actions in scouting, may I do the same for sports, since you have stated previousy that you coached and you would prefer your son to do that instead?" Gee, I actually didn't say anything. Looks like they were out there 5 days. (This message has been edited by Engineer61)

Oh, what the heck.... SCOUTS: PRO: +get to work with like minded folks. I consider this a CON. Few people get to spend their life working with "Like minded folks." So if that is all you are used to, then you are at a disadvantage. You need to learn diversity in today's society. BOTH: COST: It's a total wash between my one son's sports as it is my other son's Scouting. Scouting may in fact be a little more...and I would expect it to be much more so if big trips come into play. BOTH: COACHES and LEADERS: There's good and bad in each... I'm certain of it. The good in each understand the limitations of the kids and knows how and when to apply the brakes. For example, there are skills that I can safely teach a 14-15 year old baseball player that I won't even consider teaching a 10 year-old player. In any group, a bad adult leader is a dangerous one. BOTH: INJURY: Injuries happen with any activity...me falling up the stairs for example! It would be an interesting exercise in statistics to see the number of injuries per participant in both Scouting and each of the major sports (baseball, basketball, football, soccer). I would think that soccer is most likely the highest percentage of any of the sports and Scouting. I am more concerned with "injuries of stupidity", (see falling off cliff and trying to stand on a soccer ball) BOTH: OUTDOORS: For most sports (except basketball) that's a positive for both. If you have severe allergies and/or asthma, the woods is not the place to be for some. (BTDT) SPORTS: PRO: Frequency of activity. Most sports are 2-3 times per week for typical youth rec programs (school programs and club teams are obviously more). Most physical activities in Scouting in my area is no more than one or two weekends per month. I do not condone club sports (at all)...especially year-round...the body have to have recovery periods. BOTH: CON: Parental pressure. Here...here. But in 10 years of coaching, I've had only one kid that was obviously pressured to play (a specific position)....or more specifically excel (see club sports). Feel free to flame away.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/09/23/20100923arizona-boy-scouts-troops-lost-abrk.html

Blanc, Glad to see the parents don't matter to you. You earn iggy.

"Some solutions:" Really? How's that help with dealing with the consequences of one's mistakes? Cold and wet sounds like a good combination.

First, Beavah, I already have two teens...thank you very much...one's even a girl! Survived that just fine. Second, I'm glad you all seem to be able to laugh off $100 (price I was quoted for both sets of poles) ... must be nice to have cash. The big "lesson" for the Scout will be this weekend. Backpack campout...with rain in the forecast. His backup tent leaks. And his backup tent weighs at least twice what his new one did. Sucks to be him....don't it.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

Oh nooooo ..... it can never be an adult problem ... How about the adults suggest what gear to split and what not to split. Show a little consideration to the parents maybe? Yeah, they're 12...not 30...they don't know squat. Yeah, we know what kid he split the gear with...moved away, address unknown. Hoping it's in the troop trailer...which none of these morons will take the time to look in...more than likely, the poles were left at the campground....say bye-bye. Still looking for poles. Yeah...I'm torqued....bout ready to toss out every piece of gear in my garage...

So, Scout just realized that at last spring's last backpack campout he split his tent gear poles vs. cloth with another scout to "share the load". So, let's all guess what we didn't get back? So, where are they? "I du-nnooooo." Now I have to shell out for another set of poles for his Kelty, if I can get them... Hey Adult Leaders!!! You don't split tents! Wanna share the load? Have them split water!

Yeah, my wife noticed it first.... ...really no worse then when "Men at Work" wore Police and Military uniforms....

My thought is if you push to the point that ANY part of the experience is no longer fun...then you've pushed too much. That is true for ANY endeavor that our kids may take. They have a whole adult lifetime to deal with the "push".

Solid tent stake with an "L" bend. I like the hammer claw idea too...but who wants all that weight... Also...fishing pliers.

If I read the requirements correctly, one of two "animal" classification (bigger vs. smaller than a woodchuck) is required. Outside of Havelina (in spite of what any field manuals might state) there are no other herd animals in the central desert. Antelope, deer and elk are exclusively limited to the mountains to the north, about 75 miles. I completely forgot about JackRabbit...haven't seen one of those in 10 years. Rodents...another point....gotta feed those rattlers something... Most of the local Coyote population are living off of the local domestic and feral cat populations. Actually, that sailing MB would be quite easy...several lakes (urban and remote) available. My boy has a camping trip next weekend, perhaps he'll come up with something there. Saguaro National Park is about 100 miles away...it is not a safe place at the current time.

I just learned from a coworker that there are two other species now available in the north east end of the desert... Bobcat Mountain Lion Both have been pushed out of their normal habitat by urban growth in a nearby mountain range. Hereeee kitty kitty!

So, somebody in the troup decided that it would be a grand idea to have the boys do the Tracking MB. I guess it has been resurrected for the 100th anniversary. It should have been obvious, or made to be obvious, that this MB is practically impossible to achieve in our geographic area, the Central Desert of Arizona. There are exactly three non-bird animals indigenious to the area, that are in any numbers; one of which I don't plan to look for. 1) Rattlesnake (Nope not gonna look for it) 2) Havelina 3) Coyote 2 and 3 are nocturnal, unless you happen to flush one out in the day. Given the current issues with drug and human smuggling in the area, I'm not inclined to go out in the middle of the night looking for wildlife. As my Scout would say, "Epic fail!"

A Board really asked this? "Who will take care of your project if you end up in an accident and are in the hospital for three months?" I would have immediately responded, "I expect the Board to take up the slack." Yeesh, what a bunch of power mongers.