Engineer61

Quite honestly, I don't think any *program* alone can consistently ensure the eventual development of good character in boys *or* girls. If the parents are of poor character, uninvolved, uncaring, uninterested ... there is very little that a "program" can do. The primary reason being that if the parents don't care, then they won't engage their children in these activities. There are rarities, where a kid escapes the past on his own. But back to the original questions...but not limited to "boys" programs... "Is it structure that above all that boys need?" Yes...with set expectations. "Is it the common group sharing of experiences with team members that does it?" I don't think so. Boys & Girls Clubs do things in groups and individually. Big Brothers/Big Sisters does it almost all one on one. "Is it the dedication os adult paid/volunteers and their character influence that mentors the boys?" The adults need not be paid, but they must be dedicated. (This message has been edited by Engineer61)

Certainly a change for the positive with the clear reporting directive ... authorities first, Scout Execs second. I agree with Schiff that not releasing the "Pervert Files" taints it a bit...we'll see how that works out when new files are being added.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

Trainerlady ... thanks for the helpful info. Twocubdad ... thanks for the disdain ...

Outside of Alaska, I doubt if anyone would get the joke...and they probably wouldn't like it. I'm 50, and I don't ever recall hearing the name of the Captain of the E.V.

Nope, you're not alone. I could vote for Ron Paul, but that's it. If any of the others are the choices, I'll just pick the Communist or Libertarian. That way, I'll have a clear conscious that the idiot in The White House isn't there because of me.

Yeah, I would image "hostile environment" might be the correct term for Hindus, Buddhists and other non-Christian faiths, especially in some of the CO settings. The rub for Buddhists is that they don't generally believe in a supreme being at all, a contradiction with BSA edict. Buddha himself was not a deity, but a teacher. Depending on the rigidity of the following, parents may choose to "play along" with Scouting in this regard, or, as I have seen a couple of times, they learn of the issue and end their participation right there...sometimes mid-meeting. In the end, it is the parent's decision, and one that we should embrace and accept.

I've been looking around various sites...but haven't found anything published. Has anyone seen what the med staff at Jambo will consist of. I assumed that the Military covered that before, but with them gone, I'm wondering if there is a heavy reliance on local medical services.

IMO ... there's no such thing. Leaders are made out of circumstance, be it social status (The Kennedy's), socio-political or economic upheaval (FDR, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Ho Chi Minh), greed (Napoleon, Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan) or war (Nikita Kruschev, Teddy Roosevelt)

So, Scout has a friend who's family is scheduled to hike the Canyon this spring...so he went on a 6 mile hike with them on Saturday... Quad's and Ham's hurt by the end of the day ... but not excessively.

"If you want to be cynical about it you can make a case." That's my point precisely... If you are a parent you have to be cynical about those charged with taking care of your children...be it at daycare, school, church, sports or Scouts ... because is you aren't mindful as a parent, the predators will find your child eventually.

I suppose it is a rarity when Beav and I agree 100% on anything, but this is one time where I will gladly march in lockstep with Beav! YP strictly about protecting BSA, with possibly some minor residual of warding off a few of the less experienced pedophiles in the process... If BSA was about protecting the kids, the "files" would have never been started. And every "file" would have been turned over to law enforcement for prosecution long ago, but those files are still locked up...even after the Oregon case. Even the "files" are about protecting BSA, not the boys. Maybe the BSA intent of YP is more about getting naive parents to go into Ostrich mode rather than pay attention as to what goes on in the troops. "BSA has YP, I don't have to worry if Johnny is going to get fondled at Camp now."

My Grandfather used to fish with dynamite....he was 8. When my Dad was a kid he hunted by himself. When I was a kid we'd have BB-gun wars. My kids have Nerf-Gun fights. Things change...get used to them...can't live in the past.

"If scouting is worthwhile and important, why rush off just to deal with weekly chores?" A couple of reasons... Because that homework that requires the internet to research is due Monday, and teachers don't give extra time because a kid was off on a Scout camp out. Late one day...that's a letter grade lost. Miss two? That'll be two letters off.

Our troop always breaks camp on Sunday morning. None of the campsites they use (except for the Webelos campout) are closer than 100 miles.

I dunno, but maybe Summit is going to end up being the Disneyland of Scouting .... $500 million for a campground for 30,000 ... $16,666 per camper? Just for the construction? That cost plus maintenance...would think the prices have to go up.

LB, Yeah if they're hungry enough they'll eat anything...normally though, my Scout wouldn't touch it. E61

So...if this is what the SM actually said ... "At our most recent meeting the SM announced to the committee that he needed us to get *him* a new Klondike sled within 3 weeks." Then you have a problem... had he said ... "At our most recent meeting the SM announced to the committee that he needed us to get *the troop* a new Klondike sled within 3 weeks." Then that's something else.

If anyone's concerned about public information, tell them to try Googling their own name, address or telephone number...that should pretty much shut them up. TM is usually pretty good software...I've had to come up with ingenious ways at times to get it to resync. There have been a couple on instances where the wifey (Adv. Chair) has let loose a string of colorful metaphors when she's lost an evening of work. Doing the summer camp scheduling is far more gruesome. Weeks of prior planning, up at 5 AM to get MB slots, weeks of organizing and changes after... I'm very happy that she's pawned that off to someone else in the Troop.

"So, if the boys dressed in Star Trek uniforms and gave accommodation from the Galactic Federation, would you be less offended? " No ... because the base story line is fiction. OA mimics (usually badly) Native Americans, which is not fiction. With a Star Wars theme ... Scouts would likely have a huge upsurge in enrollment. I remember my Scout's crossover...it was incredibly embarrassing to watch, even my Scout turned away during some parts of it.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

My late father found and used a non-pesticide area treatment...you put it in a hose-end sprayer usually, but mixed with water in a pneumatic sprayer also works. 1 cup tea made from RedMan Chewing tobacco 1 Tbl. Lemon Dish Liquid 1/4 cup urine Mix with 2 gal of water, spray area (ground and foliage), allow to dry. Lasts about 8 hours usually.

Tangent: HWMBO According to Google "He Who Must Be Obeyed". In my particular case it's ... SWMBO - "She Who Must Be Obeyed" = Wife. LOL

In reality, everything is a risk vs. benefit comparison...right? There are plenty of things we did 100 years aren't that important for the vast majority of us ... they don't provide an application to today's way of life. Most people aren't interested in recreation that imperils their health...if that weren't the case, we'd all drive muscle cars and own jet skis and parachutes. The realities are that parents demand that kids be safe when Scouting or doing any other activity ... safe to their standards, not the standards of the old Scouts from yester-year. Might not like it....but that's the way it is.

LOL...just reading a couple of these replies and applying the idea to my Scout is a hoot! I have never seen a 14 yo more disinterested in the opposite sex than my stepson. He infuriated his female cousin over the summer when he told her that he didn't see any reason to ever want to have a daughter... "Why would I want one of those?" He refuses to even watch kissing scenes on TV or the movies. Thanks for the mental images today ... I definitely needed the uptick.

"The Gay and Atheist thing is not in the Guide to Safe Scouting, never was... " Wow...I love how some fragment everything into compartments... Every document written by BSA is a whole rule set (policy actually) that builds on or complements the others...I don't think you can fracture and compartmentalize to suit your particular needs... So if policy A says no gays and B says no atheists and C says no alcohol. Then you enforce them all, regardless of what "book" then happen to be written in. Obfuscation is not very Scoutlike. If I thought I could make a difference, I'd join...but I already know that's an impossibility...(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

BSA too risk adverse? Don't think so...