EMTBasic

Thanks for the feedback to my initial post folks. In addition to the great link from Pack378, I also found one myself that I thought I'd share with the group: http://www.12pointsgraphics.com/27/designs.aspx?gclid=coicsfrnro0cfqaahgodmmkirw If anyone has more to contribute, feel free to keep this thread going by adding more resource references!

I've seen a lot of posts in these forums about uniforms, but not one addressing my personal pet peeve. So I thought I'd see if anyone else agrees with me. My problem is this: when did the BSA become more about making money than being practical? Back in the day, Cubs had one necker... and maybe a hat... that had the Cub Scout emblem on them, and they were good from Bobcat until Webelos. Now every year you HAVE to buy a new necker and hat, otherwise your son doesn't look like the right rank. What a scam! I just recently got "volunteered" as Asst Cubmaster for my pack, and I think one of my first official projects is going to be creating a "uniform bank" that will hopefully, eventually allow everyone to get their required uniform pieces each year. Anyone else have any thoughts or solutions to this? I'd love to hear 'em...

Thought I'd chime in on this one, since my troop did something unique "back in the day". As one of the ways that the mothers would be made an integral part of the troop & its ceremonies, (don't start yelling at me for being chauvinistic- this was 25 years ago!) my troop's mothers club would take plain black BSA necker's and plain red BSA necker's, cut them in half, and sew one of each together lining up the emblem. I believe black was always left and red always right. This created a custom, unique look for my troop, and you could ONLY get one of these necker's at your CoH where you formally became a member of the troop. And in a different time when it was fathers who were always more involved in scouting, it made the moms important, too. I can't tell you how many times we were asked to trade necker's whenever we participated in events with other troops... and I won't tell you how much grief you got if you ever managed to lose it! :-)

Hello everyone! My pack is looking for a new t-shirt design that (1) isn't the same-ol', same-ol' standard cub logo, (2) looks good, and (3) is something the kids might actually think is "cool" enough to wear. Anyone out there creative/artistic/bored? Or does anyone know of any on-line resources where we might make use of existing artwork? Appreciate any assitance...

Just wanted to say that I liked the idea of linking knife usage to Bear, so that the scout is a little older (and hopefully more responsible). Although my Step-son just got his Wolf, he's been asking all year when he would be allowed to have a knife. However, I like him having 10 fingers; so I have been deftly dodging the issue. I think I would go a step further and only suggest locking blades for younger kids, though. They mess around opening & closing a sharp knife such as a std-issue pocketknife, and something's eventually gonna happen. :-)

Holy... er, um... moley! I have been getting such a kick out of these forums since I joined the site. I never would've believed that this much discussion occurs just on the subject of uniforms! I agree with John-in-KC about the KISS principle; so I think the simple, practical terminology that OldGreyOwl suggested would work fine. But the Secret Order of Uniform Police Yahoos (SOUPY) have never seemed too interested in the we all actually use things in the real world. As you might imagine, I also agree with John-in-KC about the material and construction of the uniform itself... although I AM a big fan of the new pants. HOWEVER- I don't think we should lose sight of the real issue here. The uniform is a symbol, and the way that symbol is presented should be important to us all. We can debate the nuances of Class A, B, Z, etc, but the bottom line is what the uniform stands for and how scouts & scouters perceive & conduct themselves when wearing it. There is another thread in here called "Scouts no longer wear the Scout Uniform!" that has included a variety of opinions and lively debate, and I'd recommend reading through it for more perspectives. rwp? My initials. 113? I was the 113th Eagle in my troop. Back in the saddle with my Step-son!

I agreed previously that wearing the uniform ISN'T a requirement... but it DOES help us as leaders and parents to set a higher standard. And given the things about kids today that we all hear, read about, and live with, I don't think that's a bad thing. Personally, I think kids today NEED to have more of a sense of pride in themselves, and NEED to be able to see & think of themselves as part of a group that others view with respect. We need to challenge them more, and we need to stop being afraid to set some standards and goals that both the scouts AND their parents should be held to. If you want to look at it from a strictly practical point of view- when I was a scout, we were required to wear our uniforms whenever we traveled. That meant to and from every camping trip. I BELIEVE our parents were told that it was for insurance purposes; but whatever the reason, we looked sharp AND we looked like a cohesive unit. We switched to "civvies" when we got to where we were going; but we had our uniforms with us, and we would wear them whenever we were representing ourselves as a troop. Of course, sashes, medals, etc were reserved for BoR and CoH. Like I said previously, I'm a fan of the KISS principle. As such, I'm surprised to see how active this thread is, because I really believe this boils down to a simple matter of pride. Although I will now be wearing a somewhat larger size than when I made my Eagle, I will still wear my uniform with pride; and I hope my Den Leaders, step-son and the other boys in my care will accept the example, and learn something from it.

Well, I'm still learning to use this site... but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents-worth in. I'm a big fan of the KISS principle. So while some folks might bring up rules, regulations, lamentations, etc, I think it comes down to this: it's a matter of pride and self-respect. Yeah, I'm old school. When I was coming up through the ranks in the 80s, I was fortunate to be in a troop that had a long history; and scouting spirit was a big part of that. But the world has changed. Parents don't always have the time or energy to fight the mass-marketing our kids are constantly force-fed. All you need to do is look at all the kids as you pick 'em up and drop 'em off at school or summer camp to see the baggies, visible boxer shorts and whatever else they want to/are allowed to wear. Fortunately- as Scouters, we are in a position to help with this. There ARE uniform codes, and they're there for a reason. Scouting is an ORGANIZATION with certain codes of conduct, rules, and expectations. It is our obligation as leaders and parents to get our children to feel that they belong to something very special; and wearing the uniform goes a long way towards that goal. And before I'm accused of being a member of the Uniform Police, let me say that I think each pack/troop needs to set their own uniform requirements based on their own personality. The key is that there needs to be SOME set of standards! If the pack/troop only wants to do class-Bs, so be it. They need to recognize that they may look out of place when in the presence of other packs/troops; but a pack/troop all in matching class-Bs will still look better than a pack/troop in varying states of class-A dress. Personally, I think we should be doing everything we can to get our scouts to not only wear the uniform, but to wear it in public--properly--whenever the occasion calls for it. I was recently asked to join my step-son's Pack as an Asst Cubmaster next year. (They invited me to a committee meeting to "get more involved" and then ambushed me.) The first thing I did was go out and buy a complete uniform. All my patches & pins were transferred off my scout uniform in storage, and now I'm all set to start my new position on the right foot. "Lead by example." And for us it should ALWAYS be about leadership and setting an example. I hope I will be able to help the fledgling scouts in my Pack learn to view scouting as the great experience that I knew it as. That means setting standards- which includes expectations of the scouts AND their parents. If that means setting up a uniform bank for those less fortunate, I don't see a problem with that. We need to remember that the uniform helps symbolize what scouting should mean. It demonstrates to those NOT in scouting that we are a part of an organization with a long, proud history; and reminds those of us IN scouting to be mindful of the responsibility.

I've been going to Ely to canoe since 1976, I believe I can give you some good advice. I don't know when your going for sure, but the best time is from the 1st of July to the end of Aug. Well to start off with your lunches; the first couple of years that I went I simply purchased the dehydrated food from my Outfitter, but I have found that I can put together a much better meals myself. I would suggest using styrofoam coolers, because they are inexpensive and keep ice alot longer than other type of coolers when your in the sun. I live in Iowa so, what I so is I pack my food in the coolers with regular ice until I get to Ely, then I dump the regular ice and replace it with dry ice. I have had dry ice keep my frozen items actually frozen for up to 4 days after leaving on the water. You can really take anything you like to eat with you on the trip with no problem. I put all my frozen food items in the styrofoam coolers and of course have them packed with dry ice. I have been taking filet migon steaks, hot dogs, ground beef, (ground chuck is better), smoked ham steaks and even a half gallon of milk. The milk with thaw with no problem and no difference in taste either. After I place all the meat in the coolers 1st I then place a paper sack such as from the grocery store on top of the frozen food, then the dry ice is placed on top of the sack, then I place a piece of aluminum foil on top of the ice with the shinny side up, then put the lid on. This will keep your food frozen up to 4 days if you limit the time you open and shut the lid plus try to keep them out of the sun as much as possible. These coolers are alot easier to carry over portages and when their empty, they weigh almost nothing. Now as far as dry items such as; chips, peanut butter, bread, etc, I like using a canvas back back which if you do not have one, you can rent one from your outfitter. One of your coolers can be used for eggs, bacon, butter anything else that would need to be in a cooler. Now, if your going by yourself, you should be able to get by with two coolers, one for frozen and one for just items tat need to stay cool. The canvas back pack can hold everything else as far as food items. Yoy might also consider a flat teflon coated griddle designed for campfires to be able to handle the heat of the campfire. This one piece of cooking equipment can handle all of your cooking needs from steaks, hamburgers, pancakes and eggs. When it comes to plates and things to eat off of and drink from, I prefer the blue enamel plates and cups you find in your local Wal Mart or camping store. The kind that is blue backgrund with white spots on them, their pretty cool looking and very durable, easy to wash. For you, one person, I would take two of these plates, one cup of same product as the plates, one plastic glass, a large spoon for cooking with, one fork, a normal sized spoon and a reguler butter knife. You should take a very sharp knife for cutting your steaks and such. I take Pringle potatoe chips because of the crush proof container they come in that packs great in your canvas backpack. Your bread items like hotdog buns, hamburger buns and regular bread can go in the canvas backpack. I have in the past used cardboard to line my canvas backpack to give it more support so the sides of the pack stand up even when there is nothing in the pack. This keeps anything from getting crushed. Plan your meals so as to know what you will be eating and when on what day and what time of the day. I even took a bag of charcoal 2 years ago. It worked great because I only intended to use it the first day and night anyway, so it was not any problem to take it since it was going to be use up right away at first. I sometimes like having a cold lunch like peanut butter sandwiches and such. Ya know, for just a small lunch what works great is to take a Sterno Stove and a can of Sterno fuel. This is great to use so when you want to cook anything like a hotdog or heat up some vegetables, cans of soups and not have to worry about starting up a big camp fire just to cook. I have never taken a Coleman stove on a canoe trip, they are too bulky, too heavy and just plain akward to have to carry. Sterno Stoves work very, very well. I have used them for several years now, includng on my motorcycle trips that I take. Take vegetables that are packaged in bags that you find in the frozen section at the grocery store, then you heat them up in a pot that you should take like a mess kit would have. If ya like pancakes, you can get the little containers that have the pancake mix already to go with exception of adding water. Bisquick is one brand we have in our area at the stores. All ya have to do is add wate up to the line on the container and shake the heck out of it and it is all ready to go on the hot griddle. If you check some of the islands on the lakes you'll be on, you have a good chance of finding some Blue Berry bushes. And I'll tell ya, fresh blueberries are hard to beat in pancakes. Don't forget to take syrup either. Basically, you can take any kind of food you like as long as you pack it correctly so as it does not spoil. Drinking water, in the camping section of any store you can find these little pills used to purify water. Take them, one bottle is to kill any of natures germs and the other bottle is used to make the water taste better after you kill any of mother natures germs with the first bottle. You should take a large canteen. You can either boil water and then drink it or use the pills which are safe to use which you would put them in your canteen or do like I did two years ago and take a few gallons of water with you. When the jugs are empty, they can be squished down and packed away in your canvas pack to take back with you and throw in the dumpster when ya get back to the outfitters post. As far as equipment, I would take nylon rope with you. You should take one piece that would be at least 75' to 100' long and as big around as your little finger. This is used to tie/hang your food up in the trees at night so the bear don't eat it. I say a 100' because you need to throw your rope over a tree limb that is high enough off the ground so the bear can not stand on the ground and reach up to get it, far enough away from the trunk of the tree so they can not climb the tree and reach out to get your food and it also has be be hanging far enough down fron the tree limb so the bear can not clib the tree, out on to the limb and reach down and get your food. I learned this from experience believe me. Some of the limbs you may have to use might be up in the tree quite a ways. This is why it is a good idea to take that length of rope. You first tie something like a rock on the end of the rope and then throw it up and over a selected tree limb, then tie the end of the rope to the pack and pull it up to meet the criteria I have mentioned earlier, then tie the other end to the trunk of the tree. Another good idea would be to tie any pot or pan to the rope just above the spot where you tied the rope to the tree. This way if any bear try to come in your camp and steal your food you will be aware of it. Also, I would take two sections of rope at 50' in length, the same diameter as the 100' rope. Tie the 50' sections to the front and back of the canoe. This way you are always set up to be able to tie/dock your canoe at your camp site or whenever you stop somewhere. Phones do not work up there unless ya have a satelite phone. First aid kit is a good idea too. Flashlights, a soft folding chair, camera. Just remember that everything you take you have to carry. So I would plan on setting yourself up so that on the beginning of canoe trip you will be all packed up with lots of stuff, but as the trip progresses you will be using the stuff you packed so that as the trip goes on you will have less stuff to carry so that when the canoe trip is done and you are canoing your way back you should'nt have too much stuff to carry, because you used the stuff and every day you carrying less and less stuff so that when you get down you basically have you back pack, sleeping bag, cookware stuff. If you plan it correctly you will use up your perisable items and will just have your equipment left to carry. Always use a frame back pack. Any other type will hurt your back. The frame gives your back support. Take all of your personal items that you need, toothpaste, shampoo, biodegradable soap, razor, etc. For fishing, take one rod and tackle and I would check with your outfitter to see what lures or live bait that the fish in that area are biting on at the time that you are there. I would purchase your lures there to so you can ask again the outfitter as to what lures the fish are biting on. To prepare youtself for the trip, I would make sure you excercise before you go. Do lots of stretches. Hey, before I forget, never never, never take food in your tent to eat. If the bear smell any food in your tent and it is a stronger scent then the food in the tree, I'll tell ya right now that you will have a bed partner not of your choice. I mean no gum, chewing tobacco, breath mints anything that has a food odor. Do not use cologne or heavily scented body spray. As far as experiences, I have had such a good time when I start on Fall Lake 5 miles eadt of Ely at Winton right on Fall Lake. I go through Jordon Outfitters and they take me to Fall Lake. I then take and go north working my way up to Basswood Falls on the Canadian Border. There are only two portages between Fall Lake and the Canadian Border, three beautiful rapids, including Basswood Falls. There is a high population of Black Bear, Wolf, Deer, Bald Eagles and more. Only two years out of over 15 trips I have not had bear in my camp. They will not harm you at all, just leave them along and watch them. There is great fishing in this area, fantastic views. I have alot more experiences that I could tell you. Why don't you contact me via e-mail or this forum if you want more information and I will be glad to give you more. I am at work now and keep getting interupted. I work at a hospital in the ER and Med/Surg, plus an Ambulance Service too. I also have a short video I an e-mail you if you interested of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area and Gunflint Trail. It makes your mouth water, it is so interesting. It makes you want to go on vacation right now. Take care and I hope I have been some help for you. Like I say, if ya want more info then just get ahold of me and I fix you right up with more info, an Outfitter or what ever you need. I believe this is the very best way to get connected back with the true Mother Nature. It does'nt get any better than this partner.

I know this is a very old string... but I figured that others might stumble across it in newer searches on the topic just like I did. Found a very informative webpage in my surfing efforts. You might find it useful: http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/jacshirt1.htm Got my Eagle... left when college beckoned me to drink and chase women... back for my 8-yo stepson.