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"Once a boy becomes a Boy Scout replacing his original AOL award is difficult,at least in our council, because and advancement report is needed and only one badge is sold per boy. The knot is used when the AOL patch is not available. After the age of 18 the AOL patch can only be worn by Eagle Scouts who are entitled to wear thier youth rank patch and thus can wear their AOl patch under it. Could be wrong but this is what I've been told. " Your council is weird. If a youth wants multiple rank patches for all his extra uniforms, what does he do? You don't need advancement reports to purchase additional patches. The rank card/merit badge cards are proof the youth earned the award. A boy scout should be wearing the AOL award, NOT the knot, on their uniform. After 18, an Eagle Scout is now an ADULT, and should NOT be wearing the AOL patch OR the Eagle patch, and should now be ONLY wearing the knots.

"I have recently been asked to be our OA Chapter Advisor and I have looked atthe Scout office and online for information regarding the responsibilities and duties of this position. I found the recent online downloads but it is very vague as to the informatin I am looking for. Can anyone send me in the right direction?" Yes. Am suprised this hasn't been addressed. Go to the National OA website at www.oa-bsa.org and go to Resource then Publications and print out a copy ofthe Guide for Officers and Advisors. That will help. (I hope your lodge gave you a copy, but maybe not). Other publications may also be of use. Hopefully, your lodge will be offering a Lodge Leadership Development event, and you should attend with your chapter chief. If you can, attend one of the upcoming National Lodge Advisor Training Seminars offered around the country. This will all help you (and your chapter and lodge)

"Now some read the uniform guide that you wear the color of your primary registration. I find this confusing. " It is confusing. That's why it was changed. It USED to read that. Now it reads that you wear the color that properly matches the position you are indicating on your uniform. BTW, the COR is NOT a member of a unit. They represent the charter org. Yes, they are on your charter, but that doesn't make them a member.

ScoutNut, Sorry, but Michelle is correct. The knot devices worn are NOT to indicate what PROGRAM a youth earned the religious award, but WHICH ONE. It IS correct for a Boy Scout who has earned the 'older' religious award to wear the VenturING knot device. He does NOT wear 2 Boy Scout devices.

"Hi..it's not. I had 2 teachers from my daughters school willing to jump in with both feet and help me get it off the ground but to be quite honest just the feel from this forum has talked me out of it. As I said before, if I can't get support on here (a forum that is supposed to support me) then how can I ever expect to make it. I feel as though I am doomed to fail because of nobody morally backing me. " I'm sorry, but I do not understand these comments. This forum is not a 'support' forum, but a discussion forum for those involved in Venturing. All of us here have tried to give you information to help you be successful in what you are doing, and in fact this is but one of several on-line resources on Venturing. Your 'support' should be coming from your home council in the form of your unit commissioners and other volunteers and professions. As it seemed from your comments that these people were not giving you all the information you need, we have helped out the best we can' To say that 'nobody morally backed me' makes no sense. I think all of us what you to succeed, but we ALSO want you to have complete information to be able to make the right decisions and be successful.

"To get really picky...I would argue that a Venturer who is attending his Eagle BOR may not currently be a Boy Scout in one sense--but in another sense he is a Scout--specifically, he's a Life Scout, or he couldn't be there. The little patch he gets if he passes the BOR says "Eagle Scout" right on it, not "Eagle Venturer." I suppose you could say he "holds Life Scout rank" but isn't a Life Scout. " When we say someone is a "scout", we are basically saying they are a "Boy Scout" or "Varsity Scout". A Venturer is not a scout. Holding the Life Scout rank or Eagle Scout rank doesn't quite apply here. "But, if he's only registered in a crew, I don't think he's entitled to wear a Boy Scout uniform to the BOR. My point was--and still is--that if you go to an Eagle BOR and see a candidate in jeans and a t-shirt, a clown costume, or a medieval suit of armor, that may in fact be his uniform. " No, a Venturer who is only a Venturer has no business wearing a Boy Scout uniform. He should be wearing the uniform that his Crew has choicen, ideally the green and gray uniform, or something else. Because of this is why they recommend that in the case of an EBOR for a Venturer that you have atleast one person on the board familiar with the Venturing program to avoid the issue of some 'old guard' scout leader who gets bent out of shape because a Venturer shows up in something other then a tan Boy Scout uniform.

No idea. I was a scout at the time, and had to get the new uniform before I went to the 81 Jamboree. At the time, I wore the old green-khaki uniform at the time. (kind of a mis-name, as 'khaki' really means a sand-tan color. Our uniform at the time was more of a light olive drab. We called it 'khaki', but it really had more green to be a proper khaki). Youth shirts of the time had the v-neck because we wore neckerchiefs, but this was falling out of favor. I jumped on wearing a collared shirt with bolo ties. This would devolve to the current practice of wearing neckerchiefs under the collars (an OPEN collar. Am SO sick of kids buttoning the top button of these shirts. Who is mis-informing these kids?!?) Only changes I saw during my involvement as a scout of the time was dropping a strange 'fold' on the shirt pockets, the slow drop of the v-neck shirts, and the strange buttoned front pockets on the pants. Frankly, as a kid I thought it was an improvement. Kids can grip about the scout socks, but, frankly, they were an improvement over what we had previously: garter tabs under the socks. And the 'new' scout pants and shorts as part of the Oscar de la Renta re-design was an improvement over what we had. Sadly, since then National has monkeyed with the scout pants and shorts, and subsequent re-designs have sucked. (useless cargo pockets, elastic waistbands, etc.

"OK I stand corrected. But they are still members of the BSA." Wasn't argued on that point. Venturers are most definetly BSA members. Our shirts say "Venturing, BSA". But Venturers are NOT Scouts, and some will get a little teasty about that point. They are NOT "Venture Scout", "Venturing Scouts", "Venturer Scouts" or any other kind of Scout. ["Sea Scouts" are proper, but that's a special program within Venturing] A big mistake some make is thinking that Venturing is just (as another venturing leader put it) "Old Boy Scouts with Girls and spruce green shirts".

"I'm still befuddled as to why a fashion designer was even used in the 1st place! It would make sense to have more than one uniform option. Dress & field come to mind. The current design is not a bad dress uniform. A more practical uniform should be designed for field use. And should be designed by someone who knows something about field uniforms." Have to agree. The color of the uniform I don't see as a problem. What I see as a problem is the design/cut of the uniform and the choice of materials. Scout shorts/pants are badly designed. Thus why people like 'Kudu' put forth the idea of using olive-drab BDUs. I'd like to see better designed and made pants and shorts. I can get better made/design pants/shorts from outdoor stores like Caberas's, Bass Pro Shop, REI, etc. Heck, I can get better ones at The Gap or Old Navy. I can't understand why nothing has been 'fixed' in this area. Heck, Philmont shorts are made by Columbia... (one reason I like being in Venturing. I don't have to use BSA's venturing pants/shorts. I can get other charcoal-gray items and STILL be in uniform). I don't get too worked up about the BSA uniform shirt in the outdoors. I'd rather wear a t-shirt or polo shirt for those times.

"I will continue to ask him to wear his sash once a month for the Pack meetings. Now if I could just get it to stay on...the small is too small and the large is too large....I didn't see any mediums at our Scout shop and he refuses to let me alter it in any fashion so it fits better." As I mentioned, what some mothers have done is attach a little loop underneath the top of the sash that can attach to the epaulet button and prevent it from sliding off. You can't see this loop at the top, so no-one should get upset.

"A member of a Venturing unit is still a Scout!" No they are not. A member of a Venturing Crew is a Venturer. The term 'scout' does not apply to them and never has. This is why they are NOT called "Venturing Scouts" or some similiar term. "How Clintonian do you want to get? " Uh, what does Clinton have to do with this? Please leave your political views out of this.

"It has been posted that the merit badge is only worn to for formal events such as CoHs. Fair enough and easy to agree with. However, my question is - for den chiefs should/may they wear their MB Sash to formal Pack events such as Pack Meetings, B&G, Bridging Over? These aren't troop activities but they are formal events for the Pack. " It doesn't matter they aren't troop activities. If they are formal scouting events, that is fine. A district or council awards banquet, eagle banquest, etc, would also count. There is no 'restriction' on wearing the sash, just that outside of formal events, its a bit 'show-offy'. I am also concerned when I see scouts wearing the sash at events like: OA Sectional events, NOACs, Jambo, etc. If they lose it, its a bit expensive to replace them. They should have left them at home for more appropriate occasions. There is a time and place to wear merit badge sashs. Formal events is the time. Other activities it probably isn't.

When I joined scouts back in the 70s, my troop wore the red beret, so I got one. Like a lot of kids of my time, we had seen berets worn on tv & the movies. Sadly, as others have pointed out, the way the BSA's beret was manufactored made it difficult, if not impossible, to wear the BSA red beret in the same way. (wonder if that was on purpose). Thus it looked dorky. Plus, being in hot Florida, it wasn't very practical. A baseball hat or the current expedition hat was better. When I got backed involved as an adult in the mid 80s or so, I went to wearing baseball-style hats and that was it for the berets.

"Well, remember that the boy may be a member of a Venturing Crew, not a troop, and whatever he's wearing may be their uniform--or they may not have a uniform. " That may be true, but then the candidate is a Venturer, not a Scout, and the question used the word "Scout", which indicated membership in a Boy Scout Troop.

Merit badge sashes, like medals, are only worn at formal events. This includes not just ECOH, but Troop Court of Honors (your troop DOES have them, right? They should have 2-4 a year), scout sunday, and other formal events. As noted, NO sash in the BSA is worn on the belt, either the merit badge sash or the OA sash. I've usually seen them worn on the belt when the scout wants to wear both, but obviously can't, so wears the other on the belt. See the Insignia Guide for proper wear. Some other points with merit badge sashes. Some kids complain that the sash 'slides off their shoulder'. It is NOT to be worn under the epaulet, however, some inventive moms have sewn a loop underneath the sash to attach to the epaulet button to prevent this. Another issue is how to wear the merit badges on the sash. Most people wear them in straight rows perpendicular with the edge, 3 across, in the order they earned them. This is the easiest thing to do. Other methods are usually annoying, such as trying to angle them, or putting eagle-required ones first, etc.

"Tan Scout shirts w/o epaulettes were available from about 1973-1980. Epaulettes came in with de la Renta uniform in 1980 " Uh, no. I wore those uniforms as a scout. They are NOT Tan. They are 'green-khaki'. The color is not the same as the current tan uniforms (heck, they had to re-do the knots to match the new shade).

There are rules about people doubling up in positions with the unit (IH, COR, CC, MC, etc). I do not know what they are. I would hope the professionals know the rules. That said, I also agree with a previous poster. You said: "Charter Rep is not wanting anything to do with actual meetings(Unless necessary), outings, events, etc. She just wants to handle the go between only and I just needed to know if that was ok.(She is also going to hold Commitee Chair) " As noted, as a COR there ARE meetings she will need to attend. Ideally who ever is the COR should be coming to the Crew Committee Meetings, and whatever meetings (1-2 a year) PLUS COR Training with the Council. If she is going to be the Committee Chair, well, she is going to have to CHAIR the monthly Crew Committee Meetings. Being either a COR or CC is not just 'a name on paper' and not go to actual meetings. Just doesn't work that way.

"My main concern is not actually the crew itself but the adult leaders. I know myself and my husband will be all geared up and ready but the Charter Rep is not wanting anything to do with actual meetings(Unless necessary), outings, events, etc. She just wants to handle the go between only and I just needed to know if that was ok.(She is also going to hold Commitee Chair) Also another Commitee Member is basically a concerned citizen who wants to help in any way possible but not physically able to go on any outings whatsoever. " Ok. Remember that the adult Crew Committee is just like a Troop Committee or Pack Committee. They are a group of adults who sit 'above' the crew and help support it. They should have regular meetings, about once a month, usually with the Crew Advisor (maybe also Crew President) to see how they can help the crew. It would be great if the members attended Crew meetings on occasion to know first hand how things are going, same as crew events, but this is NOT required. they should go thru the same training as any of the Crew advisors. Sadly, there is no training specificly for Crew Committees like there is for Troop Committees. The Charter Rep represents the Charter Org to the council. There is specific training for this position. Ideally, this person should drop by the Crew Committee Meeting on occasion, same as with the Crew Meetings, but not required. There are also some meetings at the council level (1-2 a year, I think) they should attend because the Charter Reps are the ones who get to VOTE in the BSA.

A word on training. A lot of the training you need in Venturing to begin with is FREE or very inexpensive. * Venturing Fast Start. Do it on-line. FREE * Venturing Adult YPT. Borrow the video from Council. FREE or view on-line. FREE * Venturing Crew Fast Start Video. Borrow from Council. FREE * Venturing Adult Leader Specific is a 5 hour course. Your council should NOT be charging a lot to put this on. One course I staffed it was free, another we charged about $10 to cover snacks and lunch.

"I am just starting a new Venturing Crew and need some advice, comments, help. " Ok, first off you need to get several literature items. You need to get the Venturing Fast Start training, either on-line, CD, or read thru the on-line PDF. Get copies of the Venturer Handbook and Venturing Leader Manual and read thru the VLM. Also, what is the PURPOSE of your Crew? There is no such thing as a generic "Venturing Crew". Every crew has a speciality. What is yours? Are you a high adventure crew? An art/hobby crew of some kind? Sports? Youth ministries? This is VERY important as this will determine what your PROGRAM is. "I would call my DE but we do not have one at the moment and our FD is a busy man. I will try to reach him later for more in depth info that I can't get here. " Do you have any sort of Venturing support structure in your council? A council Commissioner for Venturing or District Chair for Venturing? A council Youth cabinet or the like? These will be better sources of local help, really. "1. What are the actual jobs of the Commitee Members and Com. Chair and Charter Rep? Do they need to attend meetings or what? " Read the VLM. The committee members 'sit' above the crew and support it. they should met about monthly for a Crew Committee Meeting with the adult advisors and youth leaders and see how they can help. They CAN come by the Crew meetings, to get a feel for what's going on. The Charter Rep represents the Charter Org with the BSA council. They have separate meetings, but would be good for them to drop by the Crew Committee Meeting. "My sponsoring Institution...I have a local store willing to sponsor us.(Not a chain-just a mom and pop store..will that work or do I HAVE to have a church/business?) " Nothing wrong with a store being a sponsor. Many do. This can have an effect on what kind of crew you are. A dive shop might sponsor a Scuba Diving Crew. Or an outdoor store might sponsor an outdoors crew. "3. I know we can focus on various things but like what? Is the Ranger Program a guideline or is that a program? I like the Outdoors, wildlife aspect. " IF your crew is an outdoors/high adventure crew, building your program around earning the Ranger Program is appropriate. BUT realized that it is the YOUTH who run the program, not us adults. What do THEY want to do. Also, realize that advancement is NOT a method of Venturing (ASIDE- you REALLY need to get Venturing training ASAP). Building a crew program around earning advance et al, like in a Cub Pack or Scout Troop, is NOT how we do things in Venturing. "4. For our outings, what adult leaders need to go? The advisor(me-female) and my husband (member-male) or more? " You need to take Venturing Leader YPT. As a co-ed crew, you need co-ed adults along. Minimum of one male and one female, better with more. "5. Who pays for any awards earned? The Sponsoring inst. or other?" Crews should be self supporting. The sponsoring inst is NOT expected to pay for stuff like this. The Crew should create a budget and collect dues. Awards should come out of this, unless the crew feels those earning them should pay for them. "6. How often is good for meetings and outings? A lot of teens have jobs and would not be able to meet weekly or whatnot." Most crews seem to go with biweekly meetings, using phone/email to keep in contact in between, and try to do monthly activities of some kind. I also recommend that you join the "venturinglist" yahoo group. Great on-line resource that can help you out. ALSO, GET TRAINED. We covered this in another recent thread. You guys need: Venturing Fast Start (on-line, CD-ROM, or PDF) New Leader Essential (you may already have this) Venturing Leader Specific Training (5 hour course) Venturing Leader YPT (video, on-line IF your council has provided it) Once you have this, you are "Basic Trained" in Venturing. If you council/district has Venturing Roundtables, go to them and take your youth officers. Youth ARE allowed and encourage at Venturing RTs, unlike Cub & Scout RTs. Hope this helps

"Another location to view new resources is the Venturing Program Highlights, however the only place I've ever seen them is under the Direct Service webpages." Venturing Program Highlights is actually a BIN publication that is put out once a year. It should be made available FREE from your council office (that is, if they bother to order it AND make it available to people). Bin # is 25-200x, where 'x' is a letter that gets increased each year. Current version is C, for 2004-2005. Not sure when D (2005-2006) comes out. Venturing Program Highlights is one of several bin literature items for Venturing. ALL are listed on the resource page in the Venturing section of the National website. If you are NOT familiar with this resource page, I recommend you do so. It lists a LOT of stuff that many involved in Venturing may not be aware of, but should be.

"I didn't know there was a Venturing YPT. There was no mention of a different YPT for Venturing Leaders during the Leader Specific Training. I was told there was a specific YPT for the youth in a Crew but not a separate YPT for adults. Is this available on-line? Does anyone have a link for Venturing YPT? The DE that we met with suggested that the club members be directed to the on-line version from our councils Web site. That training is the same for Cubs, Scouts and Venturing. " Sigh. Yes, there is a separate YPT especially for Venturing leaders. If your DE is not aware of this, am a little disappointed. If this was NOT brought up in Venturing Leader Specific Training, shame on them, too. The training IS available on-line, HOWEVER, like the standard YPT, your council needs to make it available from the council website. This new training IS mentioned in the Venturing section of the National website. My council has it on their website. The video for the course is: Youth Protection Guidelines: Training for Adult Venturing Leaders (AV-03V014) This is SEPARATE from the YPT for the Venturers (Youth Protection: Personal Safety Awareness (AV-09V027)) Your council should have ALL these videos available for you to borrow.

"The instructor said that new guidelines under the heading of considerate in the outdoors includes blending into your surroundings and not being an "eyesore" to others - that the red shirts/jackets worn by BSA are no longer proper. " I'm sorry, but the instructor is an idiot. The issue with not wearing 'bright' clothing and wearing clothing that 'blends' in is one thing. But the prohibition is against garish, neon-like colors. The red in the scout jackshirt is NOT garish and should not be a problem. Clothing using a similiar color of red has been used for centuries in the outdoors without problem.

"As NLE and YPT are the first courses a new leader needs to take this is where we will be starting. The club feels that they should get as many members as possible to take these and I know the people to contact to set these up. The shop will be open for club members to use, along with any members of the crew to use, most nights and weekends. The club feels that NLE and YPT are important and wants its to know what Scouting is about and the YPT rules that go along with the responsibility of being a CO." Ok. I didn't get your intended audience. I would actually disagree with the selected courses for that group. Its more important that your club members go thru Venturing YPT, rather then the generic one. Am not familiar enought with NLE to say whether or not that is as appropriate as it should be. I also think the club members should view the New Crew Fast Start Video (AV-03V013) as well as the video (am not sure the name), in which the crew is about to go one a bike trip and the Advisor explains what is going on. These two videos I think are vital for such an audience (club members) to understand what Venturing is and how it operates, especially in getting across the message that the YOUTH run the program, not the adults. This is another video (Selling Venturing to the Head of an Organization (AV-03V011)), but am not sure of its content.

" should there be a mandatory waiting period between basic training and wb, or something like that? I'm not trying to be flip (well ok, not too flip - grin), I'm just not sure what you are getting at with the view you expressed above. Is this any different from the people who grumble that WB should be reserved for longtime leaders because those "newbie" leaders don't know enough about BSA/haven't paid their dues yet and don't "deserve" wb so early on? " Personally, I do feel that some new leaders are rushing in too quickly to take Wood Badge. I don't think that WB should be 'reserved for longtime leaders', whatever that means, but someone who only recently joined probably should be in WB. BSA training, like a lot of other orgs, has a very logical sequence. Part of that sequence is the concept of: take some trianing, put it in practice, take some more training, put it in practice, repeat. We short circuit this with some people by trying to crame all the training in at once, including WB. Ideally, a new leader should: Join. Take fast start (within a week or so) be involved take NLE, and possibly leader specific be involved go to roundtable be involved go to roundtable some more etc if council has a University of scouting, take it be involved take Wood Badge. I think someone who has joined in the Fall should wait until atleast the Spring to take Wood Badge. The next Fall at the max. If someone has been involved in scouting for a couple of years and hasn't taken WB, I would have to wonder (is there a problem with the time committement? cost?) Part of my feeling is that I'm bother by the lack of knowledge of some of the participants who go thru WB. Many seem to lack a basic level of knowledge that I would expect of the 'average' scout leader who has been reasonably involved. I feel that if one is in WB, that they atleast have heard of (heard of, mind you) OA, Venturing, Jamboree, Philmont etc.