emb021

"gee, homeschoolers also doing the lone scout thing.......wow, big surprise." And I'd have to ask why homeschooling is a reason to be a lone scout??? Frankly, most homeschooled kids DO engage in social activities and such with other homeschooled kids (parents will pool together for join field trips and the like). I know of Venturing Crews established for just groups of homeschooled kids. There is no reason I know of that a homeschooled kid can't: 1) join a troop or 2) join with other homeschooled kids and form their own troop.

"The LS is supposed to be used ONLY if there is NO troop near enough to the scout to be practical." Not quite. That is ONE of the reasons for a scout to be a lone scout. Other reasons may be health issues, traveling, or other causes that prevent him from being able to attend a meeting. But certainly if the scout could attend a meeting, they should do so, not just because the parent doesn't want them to.

"Bolo's weren't a big option, don't remember anyone wearing them back then. The adults normally wore the tie if any neckwear was used. " When I was a scout (late 70s, very early 80s), we pretty much only had the no collar shirts, as it was expected we wear a necker. But most of us didn't like them. Once we found that we could get youth shirts with collars, we got those, but our troop we went with wearing bolo ties, usually scout related ones. For many many years our OA section conference made bolo ties and they were pretty plentiful. At the 81 jambo I got a nice SE Region bolo and wore that as my standard bolo. (sadly, I lost it, but later found a replacement). When I went thru WB, my beads replaced bolos.

Thing is, you can have primitive camps and you can have more developed camps. Some camps may have a "Cub World" as part of that. Its great if a council had a mix of both. For a developed camp I would expect: Dining Hall Health Building Fishing/swimming/boating lake. Swimming pool IF swimming in the lake/stream is not allowed/safe Showers, flush toilets Shelters in camping areas. Rifle/archery/skeet ranges COPE course, climbing/rappelling tower. Hiking trails Primitive camping area away from developed area If a "Cub World", far enough away as to not bother the Boy Scouts/Venturers Not a fan of cabins for people to use, adirondacks are ok, but prefer that not be there. A shelter (ie, just a roof over a cement pad) is what I would prefer. Building that can be used for training purposes (meetings and the like) is great also. Such building can also be useful for the council to allow them to rent out the camp to groups during the week. This would help the council keep costs down. At primitive camps I would expect no more then: shelters, privies, cold showers, maybe a central shelter with a basic kitchen.

""2) I remember the days when units only gave awards only at COHs. I know things have changed, but if this is an older unit, traditions die hard. " "When would this have been? My troop in '79 was handing out awards as soon as possible after they were earned, just retaining the pocket cards for recognition at the CoH. " Same with mine in the same time period (late 70s), at least we where handing out skill awards and rank patches, usually that night. Merit badges were usually later. Cards at the CoH, and we had 3 or 4 a year.

"I have no doubt that instant recognition is a great motivator, most forms of "instant" anything are. Even "instant" death is preferable to a long drawn out affair...don't you agree? I'm just saying it sets unrealistic expectations for the future of the boys ... in any case, our Troop doesn't follow it ... saving much wear and tear on my minivan." Puhleeze. Instant recognition does not set unrealistic expectations. And again, its not the sole responsibility of the advancement coordinator to get the awards. ANY of the adults in the troop can do it. Instant recognition works this way. The meeting that the scout completes advancement (turns in their blue card for a merit badge, complete board of review for a rank, what have you), they are called up at the end of the meeting and its announced what their accomplishment is. IF (and I say IF) your troop keeps a stock of rank patches (and its NOT hard to do this. I had no problem as an adult leader to walk into our local Scout Shops and purchase a set of the 2010 rank patches or the special centennial merit badges WITHOUT any advancement sheet), present the rank patch to the scout. OTHERWISE, within the month (yes, it should be done atleast once a month), after the advancement report has been turned in and everything picked up, call up the boy at the end of the meeting and make another presentation where you give them the rank patch or merit badge(s) or what have you. This way they can get it on their uniforms!!! Later, at your troops 3-4 times a year Court of Honor, make the formal presentation of the boy's cards (and mother pins if you do that). This is what was taught to me at Boy Scout Basic Training back in the 80s and is supposed to be taught today. AND this is also specified in the latest "Guide to Advancement" for 2011 (#33088). So it's NOT optional. It's policy. Under 3.0.0.3 Unit Advancement Responsibilities: "#4. Obtain necessary badges and certificates, etc., and arrange for timely presentation of ranks, Arrow Points, merit badges, awards, and other recognitions. It is best to obtain and present these as soon as possible after they are earned. They can then be re-presented in more formal settings." If your unit isn't do it, they are doing it WRONG.

"I don't have a problem serving on staff and paying $85 for a week or 10 days worth of food. I do, however, have a problem paying $20 to take a course taught by a volunteer, sitting in a donated church classroom and receiving about 25 cents worth of handouts." I think anyone would have a problem with that. Even with a meal, sounds like it shouldn't have cost more then $10, and even then there would be a slight profit. A slightly different example, am in Toastmasters and twice a year we have several half day training events. We will have food (breakfast type things, nothing hot, including coffee). Costs for the event are food and use of the location (unless we get lucky, and there is no cost) and any incidentals (copying and such). Average is about $10, tho we will have cheaper early registration and higher late registration (may add or subtract a couple of bucks). Another cost we have to keep in mind is if we have people pay by credit card in advance, we lose a small percentage in cc fees, so that has to be accounted for. We try to have the events break-even, but any profits goes back to the district, which uses it to increase incentives for clubs.

What Buffalo Skipper says. The BSA has been teaching INSTANT RECOGNITION for several decades. It doesn't have to be the AC who turns in the advancement form and picks up the stuff. could be another CC or an ASM or other adult volunteer. Uh, while I do not like the idea of getting extra MBs, there should be no problems getting extra rank patches. ANYONE who has earn a rank can get extra (what if they have extra uniforms). Around here, the scout shops (all Nationally run) have plenty of merit badges and rank patches, and its usually no problem of running out OR getting extras. CoHs are best for cards and mother's pins. Merit badges and especially ranks should have been passed out long prior so the kids can get them on their uniforms!!

"2) I remember the days when units only gave awards only at COHs. I know things have changed, but if this is an older unit, traditions die hard." That tradition/idea should have died a long time ago. When I went thru adult training in the early 80s, 'immediate recognition' was emphasised (and has been to this day). IE, you do NOT hold off on awards until COH (of which most troops had 3-4 a year). You were to AS SOON A POSSIBLE get the award in the youth's hands. At the time, my troop kept a stock of skill awards to immediately give them out the night the scout earned them, and kept a small stock of Scout thru First Class ranks to do the same. (we ALWAYS turned in advancement forms). Our scout shop was in the major town to the north, an hour drive away.

Some confusion. What do BoR have to do with merit badges? They are only needed for ranks. We have a concept in scouting of 'instant recognition'. As part of this, we should be submitting advancement as soon as possible, not sitting on them. While we might publicly acknowledge the advancement at the CoH, the only think we should be "holding back" for that event would be the pocket card. Once a blue card for the merit badge is submitted, it should go on an advancement form. At least once a month, these should be submitted to the council office, and awards obtained. The patches (merit badges, rank, etc) should be given out to the boys once they are obtained, just holding the cards for CoH. Sounds to me like your troop has a system that probably should be re-examined and changed. Why is anyone 'demanding merit badges'? what do you mean merit badges are 'going thru this round'. That's not how it should work.

Realize that council support needs to come from both volunteers and professionals. Remember WE are council. You need at least a small committee of adults. These will be the people guiding things and helping to establish a VOA (and would be the advisor and 3 associate advisors that each VOA is supposed to have). Your council should: * help promote venturing (enable venturing booths at scouting events, etc) * support a council venturing event * support the establishment of a Venturing Committee, VOA, and Roundtable * support venturing with training for youth and adults (VLST for adults, ILSC for youth and make sure NYLT is co-ed and promoted to Venturers, WB is promoted to venturing youth 18 and older and all adults). In most cases, a lot of this will be done by the volunteers. So is the council enabling this or preventing this? That makes all the difference in the world.

AFAIK, Scouting is strong in Puerto Rico, and they camp. And its strong here among the Cuban community of South Florida (they even maintain a few scouting awards they had in the Cuban Scout Association). And they camp. We have a big annual camporee here called the Lincoln-Marti Camporee. Here is a page on it: http://carlosarboleya.com/camporie.html

"position code 92 is a district posistion. The youth should register in the position in the district where there college is, or their home district" Correct click23, BUT 92U is *Unit* College Scouter Reserve. a slightly different position.

"Gotta remember that prior to 1995, Varsity WAS focused on sports. If you wanted to do HA activities like Climbing and Rappelling, Canoe Camping, etc, then you had to be part of a venture crew, now called a venture patrol, within a troop, and not a Varsity Team. It was after 1995 that the HA pins became available to Varsity Teams, and the sports pins became available to the venture crews, now called patrols." Eagle92, you are actually confusing 2 different programs. you are speaking of "Varsity Teams", which were small patrol-like groups WITHIN troops that existed from 1989 to 95, along side "Venture Crews". In 95, the Varsity Teams were dropped because it was confused with Varsity Scout Teams (big surprise), and merged into the venture crews which were later renamed "venture patrols" because they were too similar to Venturing Crews (and STILL confuse people to this day). The Varsity Scout Program was rolled out in 1984. You can read its history at my site here: http://www.seniorscoutinghistory.org/seniorscoutsite/varsity.html The Varsity Scout program has separate units called "Varsity Scout Teams". The current Varsity Scout Guidebook is the handbook of the program. It came out in 2000.

Its recommended that 18 and older Venturers take WB. I know of no rule that bars them from going to NYLT, but I bet that council has people who don't like the idea of youth taking WB.

"Thanks emb021 - I really did not know that. I just have foggy memory of someone once telling me that they earn Varsity Letters and it was sports related. But who it was, and if it was someone passing on bad info due to the fact it was poorly explained to them, I don't know.. " Yes, there are Varsity Letters, but that is part of the add-on of the program for that age group. But Varsity Letters are based on earning Boy Scout ranks, which Varsity Scouts do. "Since I have no love of (team) sports, it didn't interest me to go any further with it.. That and the fact that everyone says it is only LDS that use them. (Although I did hear anyone could use them, just no one does.)" Varsity Scouts is heavily used by LDS because it better fits into how they organize their youth. So for LDS scouts, 11 years old are put into the new scout patrol, 12-13 are in Troops, 14-15 are in Varsity Scout Teams, and 16-17 are in Venturing Crews (boy only Crews, btw).

"Varsity..?? I don't know enough about it.. I know it is sports related. But is it all indoor sports or any outdoor sports? LNT on the ski slopes?? Do they every camp around an sport event they go to? " Varsity really isn't sports related. This is a miss assumption because of the name. Varsity Scouting is just Boy Scouting aimed at a little older age group (14-18). it uses sports terminology, but the program is basically the boy scout program. Teams can include sports in their program, but that is NOT their focus. Teams can and should be doing high adventure stuff, which means they need to do LNT.

"Do Explorer posts have any support system? I mean in BSA." Explorers are now part of the Learning for Life corporation, which is owned by the BSA. This is kept separate from the BSA due to differences in membership policies. Check with your local LFL Executive. From my knowledge, only the Law Enforcement and Fire/Rescue Explorer Posts have the most national support. Only these 2 still have national conferences, along with the law mock trial events. Also check their website: http://exploring.learningforlife.org/ Here is the section just for Fire Services: http://exploring.learningforlife.org/services/career-exploring/fire-service/ There will be a Fire/Rescue National Conference this July.

"I'd be interested to learn if this will just be the BSA's typical WB program translated into Spanish, or if the content will include topics specific to the Mexican Scout program?" Why would the BSA offer a WB course aimed at another country's program?? Am sure this is the BSA's WB course, aimed at BSA scouters who are more comfortable in Spanish. I can't believe its the first time there has been a spanish WB course in the US. Would not be surprised if WB courses in PR were not already heavily Spanish. There are often WB courses aimed at certain groups of people. My council camp hosted a Vietnamese WB course, aimed at that community which drew participants from around the country. Same program, but the meals and I think language was Vietnamese.

"(1) How some units keep themselves going financially" Fundraising. car washes, pancake breakfasts, spaghetti dinners, etc. "(2) Recruiting new boys" Promote, promote, promote. Get the word out you exist, conduct open houses as a big recruitment event, etc. Keep in mind the Explorers are co-ed, so don't just be looking for boys.

"For a time in the Boy Scouts, patrols were not identified by patches on the sleeves, but by colored ribbons pinned to the sleeve - the Patrol Colors. The Webelos program was developed during the time period when Boy Scout Patrols were identified by color ribbons. As part of the identification as a transition phase from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts, the program emulated the Boy Scouts by developing a standard set of Webelos Colors, ribbons worn on the sleeve. " I don't think so. The time period for the use of ribbons for patrols was the very early years. By the time Cub Scouting came about, and Webelos, am pretty sure patrol patches were put in place. The colors Gold (for Cub Scouts), Green (for Boy Scouts) and Red (for Senior/Explorer Scouts) were used for service star backings AND garters.

For me, if you want to make changes in the BSA organization that would be good, first off, stop looking at "business" (ie company) models. You need to be looking at other non-profit organizations. IMO, the BSA needs to follow other non-profit membership organizations, whereby the decision making power lies with the MEMBERS of the organization (the adult members to be exact) and NOT the employees or chartered organizations (who frankly by and large have turned their power over to the employees). Employees should only be there to do the day to day business side of things, under the direction of the elected leadership. As an example, all the stuff we hear about our CSE is what we should be hearing from our National President & National Commissioner. Our national executive director (which is what our CSE really is), should be in the background, not out front. One thing I find very frustrating in dealing with many scouters is it seems many of them have little involvement with other membership organizations, so have nothing to compare it with. People who are involved with, for instance, the masons, toastmasters, rotary, optimist, and other such organizations would have a better model to follow, because they can see it in action. The members of the our organization need to do a better job of electing from within that group those who will lead the organization at the district, council, area, regional, and national levels. Again, other organizations routinely do this. Why is it so hard to expect better in the BSA? Nominating committees at these levels need to be more transparent (ie, there should be a general call for nominations at these levels, allowing people to put there names forward as possible candidates), and proper elections at these levels held (no electing an entire slate of candidate, allow for nominations from the floor, any position that has more then one candidate should have speeches, and each position has a proper election by secret ballot).

"So those of you with Sea Scouts in your district. How does that work? I can imagine it is fine for districts by the ocean, who have enough ships to find trainers to teach the Sea Scout course. But for those who might only have one or two ships in their district. Is that a course run at Council, or maybe even regional?? (I think we only have a handful of Ships in our whole Council..)" Its a course run by the council, but the trainers could be experienced Sea Scout leaders from the Ships. In my council, its basically been our council commodore, another sea scout leader and myself doing the training 2-3 times a year in different locations so that local Sea Scout leaders can get to it. Are there experienced Sea Scout leaders from other Districts who can come teach it (and could then start a cycle of this course being taught by local people)? Or does the region need to help you with people from another council?

"For Cub Scouts (and parents) I define the duty to God as: 1) Following the faith of your family 2) Respecting the religious beliefs of others. That's worked pretty well. " And that is pretty much WOSM's definition of it, per their documents. AFAIK, its the BSA's as well. They don't allow you to change "Duty to God" to use different wording, but allow/encourage you to interpret it as you see fit.

"The only change I see is that Sea Scout Leaders no longer take Venturing Leader specific but take a new course - Sea Scout Adult Leader Basic Training (SSALBT) code P44 " Old news. this was changed a couple of years ago. And SSALBT is not really a new course, it was around for years as an add-on to VLST. And frankly, they need to revamp and expand SSALBT, because a lot of stuff is missing that is in VLST. How can they expect a 3 hour course to replace a 5 hour course? You can get a copy of the syllabus and PPT from the Sea Scout office. I contacted them a few months back to be sure I had the most recent version for use in my council.