emb021

"The course syllabus clearly allows for the facilitator to introduce "breaks" or conferences as needed between rounds, typically one or two conferences. The conferences are optional. The facilitator has to judge the benefit of these conferences versus lessons being learned. " My understanding of the game is that the conferences are NOT optional, it's how its supposed to work. My Fraternity uses the game (we just call it the Red-Green Game) in our training course on conflict resolution, and the inter-group conferences are in there. And they are most certainly NOT optional.

The mentor patch and badge were created for a new Venturing Mentoring training that was supposed to have been rolled out in 2009. We where told about it at the 2009 National Meeting. The patch was earned after the training, then after the Venturer mentored someone, they'd earn the badge. However, the patch and badge were released, but the training has NOT been, due to the reorg at National. The new training group wouldn't release it, because they claimed it needed work (which, AFAIK, it didn't. It was done). So we have a patch and badge for non-existent training.

"Unless I misread the info at the link SailingPJ provided, the Quartermaster sail is 40 hours, including 2 nights. An awful lot of SPL's provide that kind of leadership on weekend campouts, in a properly run boy-led outfit." Sorry, but I was an SPL. Being an SPL on a camping trip is a cakewalk to what you need to do for a Quartermaster Sail. Can not be compared.

I wanted to go (am in south florida), but the group I was trying to convince to let me come help them wouldn't agree. Oh, well.

What Papadaddy said. Ran into one idiot wearing the old green Explorer shirt (marked for the Leadership Corps). He wasn't involved in Venturing and used the "once official, always official" along with him being in Leadership Corps as a kid as his justification. What BS.

Quartermaster and Eagle are only "equivalent" in the sense that they are the highest awards of their programs. People need to keep in mind that the Boy Scout program was written to the reading & ability of a 11/12 year old boy. (and that includes Eagle Scout). Quartermaster was written to a high school age youth (basically 17/18 year old). In addition to doing a service project, Quartermasters ALSO have to do a "Quartermaster sail". This requires the Sea Scout to be in charge of his boat undersail for 72 hours. That a lot more then what Eagle Scouts will do.

I have: 1 Sea Scout white uniform 2 Sea Scout Tan uniforms (we were asked to have 1 white, 2 tan for the Sea Scout booth at National Jamboree. Before I had only one of each) 8 Green ODL venturing uniforms. All are the same in terms of insignia EXCEPT each one has a different National or World Jamboree patch on them. (I took advantage of some sales on eBay and the sell off of the old Venturing shirts to add to my collection and to have enough for each Jamboree). I have several charcoal gray pants/shorts (NONE from National) and socks.

"But it seems like the AHG is evolving into the BSA's preferred, semi-official program for girls." Yeah, well, at one time there was a 'preferred, semi-official program for girls' for the BSA. It was Camp Fire Girls. But that went by the wayside several decades back.

"Now the centennial ring I'm with you on. I'd like to knwo who's crazy idea it was. That idiotic decision is on par with having special jambo shoulder loops,and changing the unit number colors IMHO. Problem is, My shirt has been worn so much with it on, I bet it the material underneath it is darker than the rest of the shirt." Have to agree. I thought the centennial ring was stupid. Then they did a similar ring for the WJ (or was it an arc? I can't recall). There would have been a time when I would have gotten one for all my uniforms. Instead, I put it on none. And the Jambo shoulder loops are also stupid. And since it used the boy scout loop colors, really the only people who should be wearing them are those in Boy Scout Troops. Not district/council scouters, etc. Yesh. I wear a Jamboree patch to show I went to a jamboree. I'm ok with JSPs. But I don't need rings around the World Crest or special loops to indicate I went as well. The silliness with the unit numbers is a whole other matter...

"While ADULT size shirts may not be a problem, you forget about the YOUTH size shirts. " Wasn't talking about youth shirts, just adults. Few youth will have more then 2-3 knots. "Anyway when I sewed on my son's WC, as well as his Centennial Ring, the amount of space does NOT allow me to sew on his religious award knot." My view is that now that the centennial is OVER, people should stop wearing the centennial ring. If they have one on, so be it, but don't be adding them on. I actually decided NOT to wear one. Anniversary items like the centennial ring traditionally are ONLY worn during the anniversary year, then removed. But few people realize that, much less follow it. But that's the problem with most people in the BSA. Once they put something on their uniform, they are loath to remove it, even when they should. (example: the wearing of the commissioner arrowhead awards by now non-commissioners)

"This will also limit the number of knots one should wear." Only if you have a LOT of knots. I have 2 rows. There is still plenty of room on my XL shirt between the knots I have and the World Crest. "I have to explain to every parent a hundred times that there is a uniform measurement and placement guide in the covers of the Scout Handbook. And of course the only patch missing is the WOSM patch." No, it's there. Just shown too close to the pocket. "So I just tell them to sew it center the shoulder and the top of the pocket." What I do is take a straight edge lined along with center of the pocket, then find the center between the shoulder and the top of the pocket. No problem. "If an adult limits his collection of knots to 5, then the position of the WOSM Emblem should be fine." Again, baloney. I have 5, and still have room for probably 2 more rows before I hit the World Crest.

"There was a precedent (~1954) for an alternative path to Eagle for explorers skipping first class for Bronze award explorers." Actually, those rules were in place going back earlier. Sea Scouts who earned certain Sea Scout ranks back in the 30s just had to complete some additional work to receive the Tenderfoot, 2nd Class, and First Class rank, and from there go get Star, Life, and Eagle. The path show (which, btw are NOT 'hand drawn diagrams', they are taken from the literature of the time) actually gives a method for Explorers earning EITHER Explorer Bronze OR the Outdoor rating to go get Star, Life, Eagle in the 1950s. In the 1960 program, when they killed off the Explorer advancement program, they created yet another set of requirements that allowed Explorers to go straight to earning Eagle WITHOUT earning any prior Boy Scout advancement!!! This policy was dropped when they opened up Exploring to female participants in 1971, and went back to the old policy (in place since the 30s or so) of earning First Class in a troop and going to Star, Life, Eagle in the Post. This is ALL covered at my site: www.seniorscoutinghistory.org

I've asked the same thing, and not gotten an answer. It would certainly alleviate the problem of people putting it in the wrong spot. I think it interesting that the uniform of the Boy Scout of the Philippines, they embroider the World Crest AND their logo on all their uniform shirts.

Someone who has been a SM for 3 years and has not been nominated would be seen as strange in my neck of the woods. We try to make sure that ALL SMs are in our lodge. Sounds like someone has been dropping the ball in your case. May be your committee, as they are the ones to elect you. I know in my lodge, we would have noticed a SM not in the lodge, and would have worked behind the scenes to help make it happen.

sst3rd- not sure why you are telling me this. I said nothing about whether I agreed or disagreed with co-ed scouting. Mearly stating the facts as they exist today. Nothing more.

"OA is part of the Boy Scout division, as is Varsity. Unless the BS Division program changes to co-ed, youth OA members could not be female. (I hope I'm interpreting this correctly.) " There are no longer program divisions (Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Venturing) in the BSA. They got rid of them about 3 years ago. That said, the OA is considered part of the Boy Scout program, hence it no going co-ed etc.

Ok, first off, its Venturing, not Venture. Those are 2 separate programs. Are you planning to wear both a Venturing green uniform shirt AND a Boy Scout tan shirt? If you are registered as a Venturer, you are not supposed to wear a tan shirt. Adults can do either. POR patches usually go on any uniform. Loops indicate what kind of position you hold (unit, district/council, etc). Unit numbers indicate the unit you are in. So if you are wearing the uniform as part of your job as camp staff, POR, loops, and unit number would all be appropriate.

"I see more Scouts and Scouters taking offense at the use of the words costume, regalia, etc, than I do Indians." Most of the people I know (myself included) involved in "Indian Lore" (I don't dance, but do create historically accurate period clothing) have no issue with regalia, clothing, or outfit. Using the word 'costume' is not appreciated or liked, as we are trying to create properly clothing/outfits. As noted, these are not costumes. It seemed that only those outside the world of "indian lore" who want to impose the term 'costume' on us. Most Native Americans, so long as we are respective and work toward accuracy, don't have a problem with us.

Dance outfits are for dancing, not for OA ceremonies. This was a topic that came up at Indian Summer last year. A lot of people (especially those from the AIA side), didn't like the use of the term "costume", for the reasons given by others here. They made it clear that this is the term to use in CEREMONIES. Reasons given is that these clothes are created for team use, much like theatrical clothing, with more an interest on looking decent, not in being accurate (as is done by those on the AIA side, whether one is a dancer or not). Dance outfits are created by individuals for their own use, and work on being correct and (as applicable) historically accurate, where ceremonial clothing is not. So I understand where they are coming from, but people should NOT make the mistake of calling dance outfits or the like as 'costumes'.

"OA's policy seems to be that true Native Americans wear regalia while OA ceremonialists and dancers who are imitating Native Americans do not. " Not quite. They are costumes when worn by OA ceremonialists. The policy, AFAIK, does NOT apply to dancers. They fall under a different group within the OA (ICE vs AIA), and the AIA people do NOT use the term 'costume'. ICE= inductions/ceremonies group AIA= American Indian Activities group

"1) It's called regalia. A costume is what someone wears at Halloween and Mardi Gras." For those of us who do historical re-enactments, dancing, etc, its outfit or regalia. As noted, doesn't matter WHO you are, its about how your outfit is made. I usually find its the people OUTSIDE who want to claim its a costume, not those inside. HOWEVER, (and I'll have to double check), the items used for ceremonies are supposed to be called "costumes" and treated as such. In most cases, when it comes to ceremonies, the idea is that you have outfits that the team wears, so they should be owned (and maintained, etc) by the lodge. The same outfits would be used for AoL/Crossover ceremonies. With dance teams, its usually individuals who create their own outfits.

With staff, they will usually recommend 2-3 airports and have transportation (at an additional cost) from them. So if you're flying, those are what I would look at. I just have no idea what airports they are planning on using.

"basic The Arrowhead is a quick "you're on the right track" recognition for commissioners." Originally, that's what the Arrowhead award was for all leaders- a basic leadership award that was earned within a year, whereas the Training Award/Keys were earned after 3 years of service. Later (don't know why), the Arrowhead was reduced to a commissioner-only award.

Some courses give out a course patch, which would be worn on the right pocket. (most such patches have a button loop, so there's no reason to wear it). I have been seeing more and more courses doing a course CSP, which I don't have a problem as a souvenir item (tho I prefer the pocket patch), but don't see the need to wearing it on the uniform (the beads you wear tell us you took wood badge, why do you need a CSP to tell us that??). Some council Wood Badge Associations do either a pocket patch or CSP, again fine as a souvenir, but don't see a need to wear either. FWIW, I did get a course hat and t-shirts. I occasionally wear the t-shirts, but the hat, along with all the course course mementos, went into my wood badge box. I wear the beads all the time, and only rarely wear the necker & woggle.

"Yah, yeh all do realize that the bank doesn't actually check signatures on any check these days, right? So the two signatures bit is really in the "no help whatsoever" category." Don't be too sure of that. We had a minor issue with our bank when they did with one org I was the President of. It wasn't a big check AND it DID have 2 signature. Problem was they were too close together and the bank didn't think there was two. So they were calling us up about it.