Ekmiranda

Based on the fund raising, which is usually good. My pack pays for most everything that we do. Blue and Gold is paid for; we ask that all families that come bring a cover dish. All the awards are paid for throughout the year. All the trips that we go on the cubs are always paid for and most of the time one parent is taken care of. All leaders and their families are paid for first for all the work that they do. Family camping is not paid for by the pack, the pack however pays for the Saturday night dinner. When crossing over to the next level all boys get the next book and slide, the parents get the scarf. We feel that it is important for the parents to contribute to this because it is an important event. Our picnic is also paid for and the tee shirts. Webelos Woods is paid for by pack funds also. We have a very aggressive fund raising committee and between popcorn, car washes, sponsored auction and candy we raise quite allot. We are going to hold our first tag sale this fall and see how that goes. I have heard that some Troops and Packs bring in over $2500.00 just in the tag sale. I as the Cub Master also challenge the Pack and the leaders; if we reach a certain amount by a certain time I will do something crazy. Something that will stick in the kids minds for the rest of their lives. This year I said that if we reach $4000.00 I would jump off a pier into the ocean in the dead of winter. All of the people in the pack enjoyed that. I always put it out to the kids and the leaders at the end of the year so they can think about it over the summer and we decide on what they want me to do and than I set the amount and we all go for it. This always works great. Lifer EKM

I have been the Cub Master of my pack for going on 5 years now. My wife is the C.C. We have great respect for anyone who wants to step up and become a leader. If someone is excited to the point that they want more we introduce them to ACM position. At the present time my wife and I have no intent to step down from these positions. We have been told by our U.C. and the C.O.R. that we are doing a great job and to keep on going as long as we want. Our son has moved on to B.S. 2 years ago so we have no vested interest in the pack except for the fact to make sure that the program is great and the boys best interest is on the front line. Aside from that all the leaders would not let us leave. We both enjoy working with the younger kids, and setting up the best possible program that we can. Lifer EKM

I am sorry that this took so long to reply. I cannot remember when it started. All I know is that it was there and it was quite prevalent to me. If at that early age of 4-5 some one else knew what was going on I did not know it and most certainly it was not stopped. The physical abuse stopped when I was about 13 or 14 after I was able to run away or fight back. The mental abuse continued well until I was 20 to 23. It seemed very odd because I always had what I wanted as a child. I mean the monetary things toys and cloths and what not. At times it almost seemed like the gifts and all the things were as a make up for the pain. But looking back it was not because my sister got the same. My father was the one who was the abusive one not my mother but she never did anything to stop the abuse. (I guess you could say that, that was abuse too not doing anything). Well I dont know if anyone outside of my mother knew anything. My father was a well-liked person throughout the community and the family. All the nephews and nieces loved him. He had a great way of making other kids think that he was the best father in town. As a small child growing up in the 60s you did not talk out of turn or say anything to an adult unless you were spoken to, no less tell someone that the greatest dad in town was hitting you and abusing you. Who would believe you and if someone did, I was too afraid of the beating that I would get after. My Aunts and Uncles, as far as I knew did not know that anything was going on. My sister did not know what was going on. As I was growing up it seemed to me that this was a normal thing and I just had to except it. Now that thats out of the way the question is about feelings. I never thought about feelings because as I said I thought that this was the norm. This is a tuff question, the feelings are hard to describe. As for people that did not know I really had no feelings but I did look at the way their family life was and I did notice that there was a lot more love and compassion in other family than ours. That made me sad and there was a lot conflicting emotions concerning the family life between us internally. As far as the beatings and the mental abuse, well picture yourself as a small puppy and your owner would constantly kick you and smack you, you would always be getting screamed at and constantly called stupid and idiot, and told you dont know what the F--- you are doing and that you are F--king good for nothing except for F--king screwing things up, you are not able to do anything except curl up in a ball and try and survive. There is a point when emotions and feelings leave and survival just takes over and that is all you think about GOD AM I GOING TO LIVE THROUGH THIS. As far as my Mother goes I think that she did nothing because she was afraid that if she spoke up he would leave and she would not be able to live without him. There would be no roof over our heads. But I have trouble with that because there are always places to go I dont think that she was smart enough to know that. I do have harsh feelings toward her still. Because to this day I have not gotten an Im sorry or anything. It is a hard thing to forgive and forget as a child, as an adult I have tried to talk about it but I think that she is living in denial about it and does not want to owe up to the fact. Or even talk about it. That makes things even harder to forgive and forget. I do not have a good emotional tie with my mother. I now have a great family life a wonderful wife and the most beautiful son that a parent could want. I have a 3000 square foot house, two nice cars and everything else that goes with it. I sometimes think if I had a loving family and a happy childhood when I was growing up how different would my life have turned out. I do not regret how my life has turned out I just think about it. I look back and think that if things were different I might not have met my wife, and if that had happened, than the most important thing that has happened to me in my life would never have happened. My son would have never been born and just for that and that alone I would not change one stinking thing. I hope this has answered any questions and has helped. EKM

Dear Scouteer's I have not forgotten about the request that LongHaul has madeI will reply in a while, I reget to tell you that there has been a death in the family, My wife's Mother. I will get back to you all soon. EKM

Hi All, First my quote did not say anything about Med Holidays it was taken from a post that I talked about running away. EkmirandaJunior Forum MemberRegistered: 2/16/2007Location: HolbrookPosts: 34View member's profileSend Private Message RE: Missing Scout in NC - Found!Posted: Thursday, 3/22/2007: 11:41:15 AM quality ScoutNut, OK now we are starting to hear more and more. I knew about the bribe did not know that he was talking to the other scouts about not wanting to be there. Maybe if this child has a history of just getting up and running away the family as a whole should be looked at. The deep underlying issues could possible be there and not the troop. This sounds like this boys picture is going to find it's way on to a milk carton in the future. How many times has this happened and how many talks has the father had. Or like I said how is the boys home life is he running away for a reason. This could also be a cry for help but no one is hearing it!!!!! Spun Thread: Yp or not YP that is the question YP is a very touchy subject; it is quite ambiguous and is very subjective to each of the individuals eyes. Using bruises is a very obvious case. The tougher and more underlying issue is the mental abuse. I think as a father first and a Scouter second we all see things in a different light and what might seem abusive to one might not be abusive to the next. If a child is constantly running away I feel that there is an issue there that needs investigating. I have read though all of the posts and all are giving great advice. I feel putting all things aside we need to look at things from a different perspective, and that is from the human beings point of view. Granted we are animals by nature but we are supposed to be civilized and cultured to the point that we all can make a rational judgment call. When we think that a child is being abused, and having made that assumption depending on the extent of the abuse and the knowledge that we have gained from the training (YP) the parent or parents should be given the benefit of the doubt. There are always reasons for things, always a reaction to an action. A meeting should be set up to have a little talk. In a simpler time things were easier and parents were of a mindset of, this is how I raise my child, who are we to question and judge this. Things these days have gotten way to far out of control, you cant discipline your child to harshly or you are this you cant spank or (hit) the child because of this. (When I say hit I do not mean in the face or with any type of object or belt, stick or switch and I do not mean with enough force to truly hurt the child I mean on the butt) Things have gotten to political correct, this country is walking on eggshells when it comes to disciplining a child and that is also the reason that we are having these issues with the children of today. I am by no means say or condoning that it is OK to hit a child or abuse a child. I came from a very abusive household, physical and mental abuse at the extreme end. By the time I was five I truly thought that my name was STUPID and IDIOT. At five years old I had received 6 stitches in the back of my head because my father through me into the back seat of the car because I was complaining that I could not see the parade. I made it though both. From my past experiences the mental abuse is a far worse abuse that could possibly stick with you for the rest of your life. If you have not been affected, or have not been mentally abused to the extent that I have been than you cannot imagine what I am talking about. What I am saying is that we as a nation have taken away the rights of a parent to discipline the child. Just look around and you can see it in the schools at the stores everywhere you look the children of today are in a position where they are doing the abuse to the parent .Why? Because a parents hands are tied. We all know what I am talking about. If a child today gets spanked by the parent or hit or disciplined to harshly in the childs eye all that child needs to say is that he or she is being abused and the whole family is turned upside down. Social services comes in the police the CPA and countless others. I know that I have gotten way of the topic of this discussion and I am sorry for that but I feel this needed to be said. Thanks EKM

I agree and I disagree. There are many levels of ADD & ADHD. My son did very poorly in his beginning years of school. The teachers said that he was ADD and my come back was that they just did not want to deal with a child that was a challenge. Finally we had my son tested by a specialist and were diagnose was a mild case of ADD. He was put on Ritalin and his school grades went way up into the high 90s. We did watch his eating habits and we do have issues with sleeping. He does not take the drug on weekends or any other time that he is not in school and we had asked the doctor about this and the response was that if it is not affecting the child with withdrawal symptoms it would be ok. But if it does than we would need to change the prescription. When we go on campouts and functions I am always there as the ASM and I always have his MEDS with me just in case things get way out of control. But my son must be a special case because there have been a few times not many where he has come up to me and asked to have his Meds because he feels that he is loosening control. At this time the SM knows and my son and I take a little walk and talk things out and I can get it so he is back in control. When we get back to the site he is back in control of himself and ready to continue in the activities. As a CM I am fortunate in the fact that when I do go camping the cubs, the parent is there and it is the parents issue. I do however require that if the Med Forms state that the child is taking meds that the Meds are at the site. At Den meetings if the parent drops the child off it is understood that if the den leader or I feel that the child is getting out of control a time out will be called and the child will be excused from the meeting for a determined amount of time and talked to by his leader or the asst. Gonzo is correct in one thing as far as I can tell. All three of us meaning my son, wife and myself visit the chiropractor regularly and there is a noticeable difference in the way my son behaves concerning the ADD. I am no Doctor or anyone with a degree. I am a Construction Manger on a Multi Million dollar site. These are just observations that I have noticed. I also must agree with Jblake47 WE ARE NOT DOCTORS, we are scout leaders and we are there to insure all the kids are safe. Go with the health forms, we have them filled out by a qualified doctor for a very good reason!!!! Stosh EKM

ScoutNut, OK now we are starting to hear more and more. I knew about the bribe did not know that he was talking to the other scouts about not wanting to be there. Maybe if this child has a history of just getting up and running away the family as a whole should be looked at. The deep underlying issues could possible be there and not the troop. This sounds like this boys picture is going to find it's way on to a milk carton in the future. How many times has this happened and how many talks has the father had. Or like I said how is the boys home life is he running away for a reason. This could also be a cry for help but no one is hearing it!!!!!

Hi CBOLT, I understand what you mean. I am a CM and I am very fortunate when it comes to leadership. All of the leaders in our pack are very passionate about there position. We all know that you cannot go to hard on the boys, as they are only 1st 5th graders. But we do set a standard that we all expect to follow. But do not go around and lecturing. Life at your age should have a certain amount of disciple in it. But to the extent of the SM and ASM bringing the DRILL SERGEANT routine in I dont think that it would work. (They should learn to pick thier battles wisely) As you said the unit is on the downslide is it because of the regimented routine that is being dished out. I think that the silly string would work great and at the same time get the message across to listen up. If it is that serious has it been brought to the attention of the CH and the Committee? Are they on the same boat as the SM & ASM? If so, if you are that serious about saving the unit is council aware of the situation and do all the parents know about the disharmony in the unit? EKM

I am just wanting to know if anyone has run across this and what are your feelings as to how this affects the drop out rate and the wanting to change units. as I stated in the my first post. "Dont get me wrong I am not wining or complaining. I just want to see if any one else has had this issue." And if you have what have you done or suggested to do

I am not saying that BSA is doing it or that all the Troops in the area are the same. What I am saying is that it is an internal issue with indvidual Troops or Packs. That the SM or the CM gets comfortable doing the same thing over and over again not BSA. EKM

Interesting I did not hear that the boy had to be bribed by the father to go on the Trip. That put more light on the subject. I know from past issues of home sickness all you need to do is to get the scout involved in something that takes his mind off the H.S. and its done. I know at times I need to coax my son to go on some campouts but also I am always there as an ASM. But when he gets to the meeting place his attitude changes. There are alot of things that have compounded in this issue like 2Eagle said, that could have led to the boy leaving. But still the fact remains that He did not tell anyone and also went off with the idea that he was going to make the road and HITCH-HIKE sounds like a runaway siniro to me. Has this boy had any past history with the Troop like this before/ and has the boy ever tryed to run away from home. I may be blind but how did a 12 year old get the idea in his head to go and HITCH-HIKE. (I am just speculating here and not saying that I heard this. Is it possible that the boy told the SM or the ASM or the SPL that he wanted to go home and someone said go and HITCH-HIKE the road is that way) MIND YOU I AM JUST SPECULATEING EKM

The Phrase cookie cutter is a very old one, It referances the fact that once something is done and it works, just keep on doing it that way and don't ever change it. Mostly it is a common thing amoung people and companys that are not inventive and do not want to try something new. EKM

Venividi, Thank your for understanding that I to have an opinion, and just so you know yours is valued and taken into consideration as is mine. Like I said before I hope to God that I am way off base for the boys sake. It would be a releaf to all to know that the boy just acted on his own impluses. Lets all hope that, that is the case. P>S> I have not heard someone use the phrase cheers in a long time. CHEERS, EKM

Working on developing character such that a scout resists impulses for short term focus on his immediate "wants" takes time and repetition, as does considering hike safety requirements such as carrying whistle, water, etc. I understand that it takes time to develope these skills and I agree with you but I think that you are missing my point. The father stated that he left the camp to go to the road and hitch hike home.(in the news cast it almost seemed like the father said it as a matter of fact and it was no big deal) I'm sure he was just happy to have his son back home safe. (But the fact is that the boy did not tell anyone) and Dad also stated that his son was knowlegable in the outdoors. If the boy just wanted to go home why did he not tell the SM or the ASM was he afraid to ? There are underlying issues here. What happen to this boy we may never know but something spooked him. And futher more, if this child was taking Ritalin and has ADD to what extent we do not know he should have been under the watchful eye of a leader. I do not feel that the SPL or the ASPL should have that responsibility no less his patrol leader. As I stated in my post before my son takes Ritalin and has a mild case of ADD and only takes it for school ( I am lucky in that respect ) But I also have three children in my pack who have a bad case of ADD and are on Meds. all the time. I know as a leader that these 3 children need to be looked after every second when we are on an outing. The child just disapeared. The whole story is not being told something is not right. For the boys sake I truely hope that I am wrong but it does not seem that way from what we are being told or read. I am not acussing anyone and am not pointing the finger either.

Its great to here that the boy is home and safe. I have to agree with the posts that there is something deeper going on here. I feel that the finger pointing should be held back but the investigation should proceed as soon as possible. Why did this boy wander off? Where was the buddy all questions that were asked and good ones but it goes deeper? How come the mess kit was found with in a mile from camp? Where were the water and flashlight and most of all the whistle and first aid kit? And what I find most concerning is the fact that the father said According to the Scout's dad on TV tonight, he was homesick and was trying to walk to the road where he could hitch-hike home. He was in camp because he wanted to sleep in instead of going on the hike. His mother is also quoted in the paper that he is on Ritalin for ADD, but doesn't like to take the medication. It sure doesn't take much to read between the lines. How many of us have guys like that in our troops? Was he on the Ritalin or not. And how sever is the ADD If this boy was planning to walk to the road to hitch hike home and hes as smart as the father said doesnt someone out there think that it would have been thought out and he would have brought a few supplies with him besides a bag of chips and candy bar and a mess kit. THIS KID RAN FOR SOME REASON OR ANOTHER!! Who is teaching this 12 years old to hitch hike home we all know what can happen. And the Ritalin What does that have to do with anything. My son takes the stuff and whether he is on the Ritalin or off it would not make him do or think a silly thing like that I want to hitchhike home. This whole thing stinks. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out EKM

I would like to start a conversation about the C.C.S. (COOKIE CUTTER SYNDROME.) I think that we all know what I am talking about. And for some of us we have been in touch with a Pack or Troop that fits this description. Or maybe even this is your unit. People on this site are talking about the drop out rate and the separation of BS and CS. I feel that this could have a major roll in the seperation of the two. Sometimes I feel that the C.C.S. if it has already been started is quite hard to break and if you have a unit that is running good it is even harder to avoid this black hole. The constant day in and day out of the same thing. How do you top the last Pack Night. One day you are thinking to yourself that the unit is doing fine the next you are just coasting along saying that the unit is OK but why is the attendance starting to drop. The next thing is you are looking at blank faces at you Pack nights. Where has the spark gone, is it time for you to relinquish you position or does it mean that it is time for things to change. I have faced these questions and other roadblocks on my journey in trying to build up the unit and moral. The challenges have stemmed from irate parents to self-centered leaders to parents that think that the scouting program is to teach their children how to get over on other kids at PWD and RGR. And another competitive function. I am the CM and my wife is the CH. I will say that my pack is growing and is strong I have good leaders that are passionate about what they do. I will back them in almost anything they do and they with me and my wife as long as it is morally straight and agrees with BSA guide lines. It is a work in progress and a constant adventure. Dont get me wrong I am not wining or complaining. I just want to see if any one else has had this issue.

I think what you should be looking for in a good stable pack are the following. Years Pack has been functioning Who is the CO and is the COR active in the unit How many dens are active and do they all meet weekly Each Den should have at least TWO DEEP IN LEADERSHIP All Leaders should be YPT and as said in past posts all Leaders should have Trained Patch Monthly Leader /Committee Meetings Good strong Committee Passionate devoted Leader Is CH active Good strong camping outdoor and structured all around program. EKM

I think what you should be looking for in a good stable pack are the following. Years Pack has been functioning Who is the CO and is the COR active in the unit How many dens are active and do they all meet weekly Each Den should have at least TWO DEEP IN LEADERSHIP All Leaders should be YPT and as said in past posts all Leaders should have Trained Patch Monthly Leader /Committee Meetings Good strong Committee Passionate devoted Leader Is CH active Good strong camping outdoor and structured all around program. EKM

I have just seen the article; I am sick with nausea and pain I can only see my sons face There is nothing that can be said that hasnt already been said. Words cannot describe such deep emotions Feelings and pain for the loss of such loved should not be My deepest and most sincere sympathy to all that this tragedy has touched EKM

Hi All, I have been in construction all my life. Carpenter most of the time as a tradesman. Got out of the labor end of it about 8 years ago and became a Construction Field Supervisor. Worked for 1 company for 7 years as that and called the company the meat grinder. I am presently working as a Construction Manager for one of the top 25 Construction Management firms in the country. Stress level went down 150% and gained back a month & of life back. Worked in Manhattan 7 years had to get up at 3 in the morning and catch train and did not get home till 5:30. Now work 20 minutes from my home. Life is getting better. Also work part time for Toys R Us as a bicycle assembler. Wife stays at home ands takes care of her mother. Her Mom is terminal with CHF. We have the front half of our house set up as an apartment for her and hospice takes care of the rest. Life has changed, as we know it. Our son is a scouter, wife is CC to my Pack and I am CM. My son is a big help to my wife with grandma god bless his soul. My wife and son spend almost all their time with the mom. Thanks EKM

I'm Sad, I am not getting my beads tonight. I had to cancel the Ceremony and my pack night. I live on l.L. New York and we have a winter storm that has hit the Island. Don't get me wrong it is nothing really big. I have Pack Nights at the Middle School and I was just informed by the school district that the schools are shutting down after regular class and all after school functions are canceled. This also means Pack Night and My WB Ceremony. I will need to wait another month to have the ceremony :-( BOO HOO

Dear Jblake 47, I think that you are on the right track. I have to agree with you because of the separation of the two. But this is how society brings us up. If you take a good look around mostly everything is set up like that. I think that the deeper problem lies in the structure of the upper pros and their age bracket. It comes down to why fix something when it isnt broke. Well maybe its broke and they dont even see it. Or here is a thought Maybe they do see it and just do not want to be bothered. They are set in their ways (cookie cutter syndrome) and feel that its been running this way for so long that it should still be working fine. Or why bother we will be retiring soon leave it for the next group to figure out. Like I have said in past posts it all boils down to leadership and who will step up and actually say that something needs to be changed and start the wheels in motion. The only way that things will change is to do something different. Anything different will draw a different conclusion, but the way we've always done it just isn't working. Try something else! The problem is what to do that is different. How do you go about changing a program that has been in place for as many years as scouting? What I would like to see would be that all of the leader CM & SM & CC all the way around get together in each district and have a discussion as to what the problems are. Or reps from each district. Or the other way to go would be to start to change things at the lower levels and as time goes by it will eventually start to be noticed and it will trickle up hill. It is hard to but blame on any one unit or committee or person, but I think that, I know in my district there are a bunch of cliquey troops and packs with very distinct personalities. A lot of times this is why boys do not fit in. Are they dropping out of scouting or are they just leavening that unit and heading for another what are the actual stats. I truly believe that it must start with the pack level and progress upwards from there. All packs need to gear the boys up better for what is up coming. Myself as a CM of a strong pack I am constantly trying to introduce things related to BS at a much lower level than just at the Webelos I. I bring thing in at the wolf level and continue it all the way up to W II. My drop out rate once they reach BS is very low I think in the 4 years and many scouts that have bridged I think only 3 have left scouting for good. It needs to start somewhere and it is certainly not going to start at the top.

"I was told once in a training course that less than 4% of the population are natural leaders. The rest are natural followers." And you listened to this one person that one time at one training course :-( I hope you do not tell your scouts that. If this is how you feel than I guess that's what you are intitled to. If you think negitive thinking is going to get positive results well there is nothing much more to say. Best of luck to you Barry.

I still say that it is all because of the cookie cutter. When you get comfortable with something and it works why change it right. WRONG!!!!! The reason things go stale is because no one takes the bull by the horns and says I am going to change this. We as leaders need to make a differance. Need to see these things that are not right and make them right.When you leave water in a bowl and don't touch it it will evaporate. You need to stir it up a bit. Sure it is going to be a battle at times what did you expect when you signed up for this. Just because it is a vol. job by no means does it mean that you can sit on your butt and watch the world go by. I hear talk about Troops that wait for feeder packs (lazy SM & ASM) I hear talk about parents that do not want to get involved (to passive of CM & ACM & CC) It is so simple to sit there and make excusses for things but it is harder to find the answers and correct those things. Leaders lead and follower make excusses.

These Heelys are simply not aloud at any of my Pack, Den, or scout related function. All of the parents know this as do the children. There is a time and a place for everything and skating around a gym or cafe. or a B&G is not acceptable. All you need is for one child to get hurt and its all over. I am all for haveing fun but at the proper time and place. Would you let your Scout bring their Game Boys to A meeting. Or a test at school There is a saftey issue here that needs to be addressed and we as Leaders need to uphold a certaint level of safety at our meetings.