eisely

Dear Scamp, I don't think you mean to say that you will never judge fitness for membership. We do this all the time on those occasions when a youth is so disruptive or engages in dangerous behavior that we have to suspend or terminate his membership. What I think you mean to say, is that absent overt behavior or a "coming out" by a member who may be gay, you are not going to judge fitness for membership on the sexual orientation issue. That is my understanding of the national BSA policy and I think that is what you are agreeing to.

I have been wondering where other scouting organizations were coming out (pardon the play on words) on the gay issue. Now we know. Of course the Europeans are not the rest of scouting worldwide. The issue of gay rights is creating quite a ruckus at the United Nations as well, because a lot of countries with other dominant cultures, notably Islamic countries, have an even more restrictive view. These countries also have scouting movements. Finally, since when did Steven Cozza become an expert on American Culture? I don't presume to speak for him, and he should not presume to speak for the entire United States. European Scouts Demand Intervention on US Homosexual Issue By Patrick Goodenough CNSNews.com London Bureau Chief August 03, 2001 London (CNSNews.com) - A U.S. group campaigning for the Boy Scouts of America to change its policy of excluding homosexuals is participating in a Scout jamboree in Sweden this week. Their European hosts would like to see the movement's world body change its non-interventionist stance on the issue and insist that the BSA back down. Swedish Scouting Association spokesman Mats Pettersson said Friday that the Swedes felt there was no place in the Scouts for discrimination against homosexuals. "On this particular issue, of course, we are much more liberal than the Americans, and we want to see a change in the position that the BSA has," he said by phone from Kristianstad. The town in southern Sweden is the venue for the Scout 2001 jamboree, attended by 27,000 youths from 54 countries, although most of the scouts are Swedes. Alongside the jamboree, 55 non-governmental organizations are participating in a "Global Development Village," which Pettersson said was aimed at opening the delegates' eyes to what the NGOs do on a range of issues. Scouting for All, a California-based group formed by former Eagle Scout Steven Cozza and others to oppose BSA policy on homosexuals, had been invited as one of these NGOs, he added. Scouting for All said in an earlier media release it would hold workshops to educate the thousands of children about the issue it is campaigning on. "These presentations will educate over 25,000 youth and their leaders as to the harm discrimination in Scouting can cause and how to initiate change to end the prejudices that face the youth of the world today," the release said. "This question of discriminating for homosexuality is a question that interests us because in Sweden, of course, Scout groups can't discriminate because of homosexuality," Pettersson said. If a Swedish Scout group kicked out someone for this reason, it would itself be expelled from the national Scout organization. Pettersson would not be drawn on whether Swedish Scouts felt the BSA should be expelled from the World Organization of the Scouting Movement (WOSM) because of its stance. "I wouldn't like to make a statement on that." Swedish Scouts had written to the BSA two years ago, he said, "asking how they could expel someone if they claim they are open to all without distinction." No answer had been received. They had then written, together with Finnish Scouts, to the WOSM, asking the world body about the criteria on which members could be excluded. The WOSM had replied that it was up to national associations, he said. "In Sweden, we would not normally interfere with what a national organization does, but since there's democracy within the world Scout movement, we feel that it's our obligation being Swedish and also Scandinavian, that we should work on this issue and try to make the [WOSM] change their position in this matter." The WOSM secretary-general, Jacques Moreillon, would be attending the Scout 2001 jamboree Saturday, Pettersson said. "Unofficially, we will have a discussion with him about this. We have also made him aware that Scouting for All is invited here and that he should expect to see them here." Pettersson said the jamboree itself, which ends late Saturday, had not discussed the homosexuality issue; it was being discussed on the sidelines. Two weeks ago, however, at a European Scouting conference in Prague, a resolution had been passed unanimously asking European Scout groups to work towards prohibiting "any discrimination whatsoever due to homosexuality of Scouts or leaders." Although the resolution hadn't referred to the U.S., he said, "I think it was very strongly [aimed] against the BSA in America." The WOSM oversees 151 national Scout organizations. Its spokesman, Mark Clayton, confirmed the body's position on Friday.. "The requirements for membership, as for many other things like uniforms, badges, training schemes, are established by each national association," he said from Geneva. The WOSM would not be drawn into such issues. The U.S. Supreme Court last year upheld the BSA's constitutional right of association, saying it had the right to dismiss an openly homosexual Scout leader. Scouting for All's Cozza said in the group's statement that the BSA was clearly violating the WOSM's position that national associations should reflect the culture of the country in which they are located. "Currently in America the Boy Scout's of America are not being culturally driven," he charged. "The BSA is following a religious fundamentalist doctrine which excludes all other ideologies, and persons who don't adhere to that doctrine."

The announced policy in this Massachusetts council as I understand it is not too different from what the San Francisco Bay Area Council did about two years ago. This West Coast council adopted a "don't ask - don't tell" policy, and indicated that it would not automatically expel gays. I don't know how this has worked in practice. By the way, has anybody seen the cover story in Newsweek about boy scouts? The article exceeded my expectations in that Newsweek did not appear to take sides on the issue of homosexuals in scouting. I fully expected a negative story.

I picked up the following item this morning. Can anyone provide more information? Boston-Area Scout Unit to Allow Gay Leaders -Report BOSTON (Reuters) - One of the largest Boy Scout councils in Massachusetts has adopted a policy that will allow gay scoutmasters to be affiliated with some local troops as long as they do not discuss their sexual orientation, The Boston Globe reported on Wednesday. Brock Bigsby, Scout executive for the council, told the newspaper the carefully worded ``don't ask, don't tell'' policy, quietly approved last month, is consistent with the National Boy Scouts Council's stance on homosexuality, since the doctrine would permit avowed gays to lead Scout troops as long as they did not discuss their sexual orientation. The policy approved by the Massachusetts Minuteman Council -- an umbrella group for 330 Boy Scout troops and 18,000 Scouts in greater Boston -- bars the exclusion of anyone on the basis of race, religion or sexual orientation, the Globe reported. ``Discussions about sexual orientation do not have a place in Scouts,'' Bigsby told the Globe. ``The Scouts will not inquire into a person's sexual history and that person will not expose their sexual orientation one way or the other.'' Greg Shields, the spokesman for the Boy Scouts of America, was attending the National Scout Jamboree in Virginia and could not immediately be reached for comment. The Boy Scouts have argued that homosexuality violates the Scout oath to be ``morally straight'' and the Scout law to be ''clean.'' In June 2000, the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) ruled in a 5-4 vote that the Boy Scouts may exclude gays, saying that a private group like the Scouts has the right to set its own moral code and espouse its own viewpoint. Last month, the Massachusetts Minuteman Council and Scout leaders in several other major cities asked the national office to let individual scouting organizations make their own decisions about gay Scout leaders and members, according to the newspaper report. Bigsby told the Globe the petition was under review. The Boy Scouts of America have more than 4.9 million youth members and about 1.2 million registered adult volunteers.

When I trekked at Philmont six years ago, lunches were "spreadables" and crackers. Spreadables were generaly tuna or shrimp. Do you suppose that PETA has gotten to the Philmont commissary people too? I smell a vast conspiracy here!

I think he was overtaken and consumed by agents of AETP (Animals Eating Tasty People).

The story below deals with developments in Southern Florida - again. While I think I am tolerant, I have always been clear that I support the BSA's position regards adult members. I don't honestly know how I would deal with a scout who came to me in confidence and said that he was gay. BSA policy says throw the kid out. I am not sure that is the right solution for such a youth. The "settlement" described below apparently will lead scouters to refer such youth to gay groups and gay programs for youth. While such a youth would certainly find a welcome in such places, wouldn't this be like throwing a lamb to the lions? How much confidence can be placed in such groups? What are the motivations behind such groups? Where do the parents of such a scout figure in all this? The news story leaves out a lot of details. I wonder what the local council got out of the deal? Continued funding from United Way? Access to public facilities without hassle? Is it all worth it? One hopes the local scout leadership knows what it is doing. One would like to know much more. Gay leaders, Boy Scouts reach accord By Ellis Berger Miami Bureau Posted July 18 2001 MIAMI In marked contrast to the ongoing vitriolic battles over human rights laws in Miami-Dade and Broward counties, local Boy Scout officials and gay activists announced an agreement Tuesday after yearlong discussions that both sides say will lead to better understanding and respect. The Boy Scouts of America's South Florida Council said it will work with gay organizations to educate its volunteer leaders to be more sensitive to the needs of members who identify themselves as homosexuals -- and who will continue to be excluded under the national policy when that becomes known. And gay community leaders, in turn, said they will continue to emphasize publicly support for freedom of association laws -- even those the U.S. Supreme Court upheld last year when it ruled that the Scouts and other private groups have the right to bar gays from membership. "As matter of practical application, our agency is not set up to deal with gay children," said Scout Executive Jeffrie Herrmann. "We recognize there are other groups that are prepared to do so, and we want to arm our volunteer leaders to help move kids in that direction. One of the core values we teach our kids is respect for individuals, even those who believe differently than we do. But we are in very, very basic discussions on which way we're going, and it would be premature to talk about specifics." Part of the agreement included an opinion page column by Herrmann that appeared in the Sun-Sentinel last week in which he denounced efforts by anti-gay forces in both counties that invoked the council's name in petition drives to overturn human rights ordinances that prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation. "We are not involved in these petition drives, will take no position on them, and we have asked the groups repeatedly to cease using our name and reputation for their own political gain," wrote Herrmann, whose council covers Miami-Dade, Broward and Monroe counties. That position was strengthened by an internal Scout memorandum, made public during the news conference Tuesday at United Way headquarters in Miami, that says the local council will vigorously prosecute any group that attempts to use copyrighted Scout identification "to imply endorsement of their political agenda by our movement." The agreement was made possible because both sides avoided arguing over national policies and focused instead on local issues that would benefit young people, both straight and gay, said Jorge Mursuli, chairman of SAVE Dade, the civil rights organization that is fighting attempts to repeal the county's human rights ordinance. "We were parties who did not have much trust for each other when we started this process last July," Mursuli said. "The question for me was how do we coexist? If I cannot affect the national policy, how can I affect the quality of life for gay kids? The training will go a long way towards doing that by educating people and helping them be more tolerant." Ellis Berger can be reached at eberger@sun-sentinel. com or 305-810-5004.

Sorry to hear about the bad experience. However it sounds to me like there is a problem with an individual, not a program. Probably all crews could benefit from some briefing (play on words not intentional) on the need for modesty before hitting the trail, and this need is not confined just to Philmont. Coming back to the individual, your story just shows that competence as an attribute does not discriminate across the sexes, just as it does not discriminate across the races. Better luck next time.

Sorry to hear about the bad experience. However it sounds to me like there is a problem with an individual, not a program. Probably all crews could benefit from some briefing (play on words not intentional) on the need for modesty before hitting the trail, and this need is not confined just to Philmont. Coming back to the individual, your story just shows that competence as an attribute does not discriminate across the sexes, just as it does not discriminate across the races. Better luck next time.

Mike Long - worms have feelings too. Shouldn't you be using an artificial lure of some kind? Of course that may become "fishing debris." My we are conflicted aren't we.

A somewhat troubling story about the use of images. Boy Scout In TV Ad Is Opposed To Fishing By PHIL LEMOS The Hartford Courant July 13, 2001 Justin Aligata said he feels the conflict every time he puts on the Boy Scout uniform. The West Hartford teen doesn't understand why the Boy Scouts of America offers merit badges in fishing when the organization's 1998 handbook says a scout "does not harm or kill any living thing." Now he's really causing ripples. Aligata is starring in a commercial from the nonprofit People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals that airs on local television today. The 30-second spot argues that fishing is cruel and inhumane. PETA unveiled the ad Thursday at the Sheraton Hotel in East Hartford. "I may be a scout patrol leader, but there's one merit badge I will never try to earn....Boy Scout law says we're not supposed to hurt or kill harmless things without reason. So I just couldn't hook helpless animals in the mouth, yank them out of their environment and still call myself a Boy Scout," says Aligata, dressed in full Boy Scout garb, in the commercial. He concludes the ad: "It's wrong to hurt animals. Please don't go fishing." Aligata, who will be a sophomore at Conard High School this fall, became a vegetarian after attending Earth Day festivities in 1999. He was asked to appear in the commercial after he posted his beliefs about fishing on the PETA website. He said he's since been subjected to some good-natured ribbing among his troop members. The scoutmaster of West Hartford's Troop 12, Tony Sebastiao, said Aligata didn't tell the troop until after he had done the commercial. "It was kind of a shock," Sebastiao said. "But he's got his own views. He's not your average 15-year-old. If that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. But that's not necessarily the views of the rest of the troop." PETA said the commercial would run today on every local network except WVIT-TV, NBC30, which PETA claims would not air the commercial because it is too controversial. Officials at WVIT-TV refused comment Thursday. The spot also runs today and Saturday in Dallas, where the Boy Scouts of America is headquartered, and may be seen nationwide at the website www.fishinghurts.com. Since March, PETA has asked the Boy Scouts of America to scrap the fishing and fish and wildlife management merit badges, PETA spokeswoman Dawn Carr said. Though Aligata has the Boy Scouts of America's blessing to appear in the commercial, the fishing merit badges will stay, said Gregg Shields, the organization's national spokesman. "We have a merit badge on fishing that is totally optional. He can still be an Eagle Scout without getting all the merit badges," Shields said. "The whole point of fishing merit badges is to teach young men how to fish, how the ecology works, how to preserve the environment and how to clean up after themselves." Despite being the butt of jokes, Aligata said he sticks to his beliefs. "I'm proud of what I've done. Most kids my age might be at home playing video games. I'm out there making a difference," he said.

Agreed.

The two relevant dates are the scoutmaster's conference and the board of review. Date of rank is from the board of review date, not the court of honor. This is important for the time in grade requirement for the next rank. The court of honor is literally a formality, an important and useful formality, but a formality nevertheless.

jmcquillan is right. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Personally I think a system that integrates new boys into existing patrols is better, but I can see advantages and disadvantages to both ways of doing business. If it has worked for your troop in the past, why change?

ckleisch, The method of handling funds sounds consistent with the way that our lodge and chapters work. I don't think that our lodge even has a separate bank account, much less a chapter. I don't know why this is so, but we have had no problem making the system work. It seems odd that someone at the council level would communicate this kind of message about council control of funds. You may be talking to the wrong person.

duty to god A scout is reverent. One of the unique aspects of scouting as a youth movement, nor merely an organization, is the incorporation of a non sectarian acknowledgement of god and a vague duty to god, as operating principles. In an increasingly irreligious, indeed almost nihilistic, world it becomes increasingly difficult to get the boys attention for even a thirty second grace before a meal. Furthermore, although boy scouts are as confused and uncertain in their beliefs as other adolescents, showing any respect for religion at all is increasingly uncool. If god really matters to us, and to scouting in particular, how do we find ways to try to bring even modest references to god, our duty to god, and reverence into our daily activities? I admit that I am not the best example. We are not regular church goers, and I find myself easily turned off once I get inside a church. Nevertheless, having just turned 60, I find myself asking what have I really accomplished and how will I measure up? I get really concerned for my children's future when I read quotes such as that below. Pope John Paul II recently visted the Ukraine, which was the site of many of the most horrendous atrocities in Europe before, during, and in the aftermath of World War II. Here is what he said. May the memory of this episode of murderous frenzy be a salutary warning to all. What atrocities is man capable of when he fools himself into thinking that he can do without God? So I open this forum for ideas that work. Keeping in mind that boys get involved in scouting primarily to have fun, what are simple things that scouters have figured out that can bring a little more godliness into scouting. Open for suggestions.

In putting up the original post I focused on ticks for a reason. While chiggers are more numerous and more annoying in different parts of the country, they are, after all, merely annoying. Ticks can be fatal. Several years ago, when we lived in Northern Virginia outside Washington, DC, it seemed that every summer a handful of people in Virginia died of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. This is a perfectly treatable disease, but has to be recognized in time. It is also transmitted by certain species of ticks common to that area. In more recent years a new disease transmitted by ticks, Lyme Disease, has been identified. This is endemic to where we now live in California. While this is far less lethal, it is difficult to treat and full recovery can take months. We always made it a point with our sons, when we returned from a day in the woods, either to home or to a campsite, to perform a tick check. This also entails checking in parts of the body properly viewed as quite private, some of which are not readily visible to the individual. Clearly conducting an intrusive tick check of scouts' bodies by a scouter in this manner raises serious questions of a different nature. While I routinely advise scouts and parents to look for ticks, that is where I stop. How much better to take simple preventive actions. This is where the advice about sulfur is most helpful. Merely stinking is always better than getting sick and possibly passing on to the happy hunting ground.

Apparently Mr. Morford's piece did not run in the San Francisco Chronicle but only ran on the sourced web site. The following correction was supplied to the Wall Street Journal's web site OpinionJournal.com by the news director for SFGate.com: "The Mark Morford column on Boy Scouts did not appear in the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper, nor is Morford an employee of the Chronicle. The article appeared only on SF Gate, a separately managed website that contains original material as well as Chronicle content, and was not reviewed by Chronicle editors prior to publication." Don't want to misrepresent anybody or anything.

For those who are concerned about the quality of the dialogue on these issues, please take note of the diatribe below. "SF Gate" is affiliated with the San Francisco Chronicle, a major general circulation metropolitan newspaper (that I don't read). If this kind of stuff represents the genteel side of the critics of the Boy Scouts, imagine what is going on elsewhere. To keep jmcquillan's admonition in mind, this is not the level we want to get to. We want to stay above this. Jesse Prefers Straight Boys A homophobic senator, the Scouts, and the sad truth about American politics By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist Wednesday, June 20, 2001 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So here's a fascinating little anecdote of minor political intrigue and ignoble Washington bickering and fiscal backstabbing and blatant GOP homophobia and bitter Jesse Helms-infused ugliness you may or may not have heard about, because God knows no one really wants to pay too much attention to anything Jesse Helms does or says or smells like for fear of nausea and intellectual degradation and nasty rashes breaking out on your id. It goes something like this: everyone graciously acknowledges how the Boy Scouts are now rather famously homophobic, actively rejecting those awful and morally corruptive gay people from their straight-laced, knot-tying, tent-pitching faux-ranks, essentially yielding to dumb fear and denying the existence of the inborn homoerotics in scouting, of thousands of menboys and boymen sharing campsites and learning to be virile together and sharing neatly pressed uniforms and learning how to be good upstanding quietly repressed members of American society. This much we know. We also know many upstanding educational facilities across this fine land have decided, in turn, to ban the Scouts from using their auditoriums and schoolrooms and bathrooms for their meetings and pow-wows. This is probably a good thing. The reason is clear enough: The Homophobia Merit Badge doesn't exactly jibe all that well with the ostensible American educational ideal -- in tatters or not -- of tolerance and humanitarianism and the sharing of ideas. (OK, and also drug paranoia and sexual whininess and rampant misinformation and underpaid staffs and too many lousy teachers, but that's another column). Not to mention that most schools have zero obligation to cater to bigoted otherwise intolerant groups. This is the school's choice. No KKK meetings, no Mormon brainwashing seminars, no creepy Promise Keepers rallies, no showings of German snuff films in the school cafeteria, no homophobic Scout troop meetings. Simple. So here comes Jesse Helms (extreme R, N.C.) and his horde o' white wheezing chest-thumpin' GOP hunks, oozing his viscid North Carolina malevolence across the nation as he spearheads a nasty little education initiative (tacked onto the larger education reform bill) that effectively bars government funds from schools that have barred the homophobic Scouts from using their facilities due to their anti-gay stance. That's right: you don't want the happy exclusionary anti-gay Scouts to meet in your school? Fine. No money for you. Helms said his amendment was meant to combat "the organized lesbians and homosexuals in this country of ours." He actually said that. No one slugged him for it. Satan fluffed the fiery leech-infested pillows in Jesse's cell in anticipation of his pending arrival, but that's about it. He did not immediately implode and dissolve into a puddle of green odiferous tripe, as you might expect. In fact, the measure passed. (Side note: If this story reminds you of a recent newsitem in which GOP man-beast Bob Barr (R-Georgia) threatened to withhold funding from the D.C. transit commission unless they named another bus stop after Reagan, you are reading far too much political news and need to get some air and drink more wine and read of book. Seriously. But you're right, it is the exact same breed of Prozac-inducing obscenity). Sometimes we have to be reminded of how politics really works. We have to remember it's not at all about two opposing viewpoints battling valiantly to make progress for their respective causes, wrongheaded or no, aiming for the general betterment of their constituents or their wives or even their own wallets, sometimes resorting to ugly backstabbing tactics to make progress for their cause. Would that it were half that noble, one tenth that intelligible or humane. Forget the huge tax cuts and the sweeping education reforms and grand mutations in foreign policy enacted over years and decades. Politics is also in the minutia, politics is tiny whiny acts of sneering **** -slapping amongst its participants, politics is bitter little maneuvering to see who gets the last laugh, to see who really wields the bigger stick, to see who can act most like a screeching 5-year-old forced to go to bed without their tenth scoop of ice cream. Politics is Jesse Helms preventing schools from buying new supplies and fixing up schoolrooms because they refuse to cater to a group, however noble its overall intention, which stupidly and rather meanly fears and discriminates against people it deems immoral and dangerous because they have slightly different sexual wiring. The Boy Scouts may do as they please. The Supreme Court said so. The schools -- and the culture at large -- should respond accordingly. Everything else is merely little simpering balls of poison in the form of a wildly unattractive anti-everything North Carolina senator who wields too much power and probably should be excised like a bunion.

The apparent action by the council in Rochester, New York sounds similar to something the San Francisco Bay Area Council did a few years ago. As far as I know this West Coast council was the first to have a "don't ask - don't tell" variation of the national policy. The idea of letting the chartered organization establish a policy also deserves more exploration. Since so many units are chartered to churches, this would effectively shift the burden back to those who object most strenuously to homosexuality. In a different thread a few months ago, there were heated exchanges about public schools being chartered organizations. The issue then was the constitutionality of a public school accepting a charter from Boy Scouts that incorporates a duty to god into its principals. In Oak Park, Illinois the local variant of PTA was the charter partner that did not want to abide by scout's policy on gays. The idea of allowing chartered organizations to have their own policy would also place a stronger burden on parents to understand what they are getting into. Parents also have the option of organizing their own 501c3 non profit corporation for the express purpose of obtaining a charter and running a scout unit. This option exists today, and would allow more variation among organizations. I still come down on the side that believes that homosexuals are inappropriate role models, but some degree of local flexibility may be a constructive way to work through this situation. Rooster7, Do any of the data you cite go into the question of pedophilia committed by "avowed" homosexuals as distinct from homosexuals still in the closet at the time that the abuse occurred? jbroganjr, I also think you presume a bit when you say that it sounds like none of the posters have ever known any gay people. I happen to work for a very large organization in San Francisco and work alongside gays every day in very productive professional relationships. Any employer who might choose to shut gays out of its labor pool will pass up a lot of talented hard working people. But that is yet different from selecting leaders for youth organizations. Also of interest; anybody who doubts that there is a gay agenda to persuade the youth of America that homosexuality is a great life style should visit the web site of the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network. Just search for GLSEN and you will get there.

I'd like to respond further on the competitive aspects of camporee and, to use my own phrase, "ability grouping." The problems I have seen come from the other end of the spectrum. I have seen stacked patrols where no boy in a particular patrol was less than a life scout. I also know of one troop that does not allow its first year scouts to even go to camporee. This also results in stacked patrols. I don't know of an effective way to address this problem. One has to assume that the adult leadership of each unit is approaching camporee in a consistent fair minded manner, but there is no effective way to control that without a huge intrusive effort, even if one had a mind to do so. Competitions can be healthy ways to develop patrol and troop spirit. But if the boys perceive that other units are approaching the competitive aspect with winning by any means being the dominant attitude, the boys in units that are not doing this will be turned off. Camporees should be first and foremost just fun. Unfortunately I have seen that spirit lost on more than one occasion.

Now that is an impressive post. With footnotes no less. Thanks for the info.

jbroganjr, If you think this thread is scary, you ought to go back to some of the prior threads. The more recent dialogues in this forum have been quite civilized. Another point about pedophilia and homosexuals. I agree with jmcquillan in that I know of no data that support the idea that homosexuals are more aggressive pedophiles than heterosexuals. The people in the gay community make just the opposite claim. Where do these data come from?

I managed to catch about three fourths of this last night, and it was not nearly as bad as I expected. The apparent treatment of David Rice does disturb me. No one gives up their right to free speech when they join the boy scouts, and I don't think that BSA national or anybody else is interested in instituting a "thought police" regime in scouting. I know more than a few active scouters who are troubled by the national policy, and free and frank discussion among scouters of this issue, like any other issue bearing on the organization, should be encouraged, not suppressed. However, the documentary did show Rice in uniform participating in a gay pride parade carrying signs attacking the scouts' policy. I don't know of any organization that would find such public opposition to an important policy in such a forum acceptable. Fortunately young Steve Cozza was not disturbed by national in pursuit of his scouting career as a youth. The documentary showed him getting his eagle, to which he was entitled. It will be interesting to see what happens when Cozza turns eighteen. If he is to stay active in scouting at that point he has to complete an adult volunteeer application. It would not surprise me to see such an application turned down. For me one of the key moments in the documentary was a shot of Cozza addressing a friendly crowd. In his remarks he declared homosexuality to be "normal." That was his exact word. This is where the factual issue of homosexuality as a choice versus being pre-determined becomes very important. More and more people in the general population have accepted the notion that homosexuality is not a choice.

The following post is from the Washington Times. I haven't seen this documentary yet. Has anyone else seen it? PBS film on Boy Scouts slammed as one-sided By Elianna Marziani THE WASHINGTON TIMES The Public Broadcasting Service tomorrow will air a documentary that reportedly takes issue with the Boy Scouts policy of excluding homosexuals. But conservatives are determined to block it. Foes of the film say it is one-sided and misuses public money. "Its one thing if [the documentarys producer, Tom Shepard] were to produce a film on his private dime. But when you bring the taxpayer money in, and are bringing taxpayer money in, to undermine the Boy Scouts of America, it changes things. Then it becomes a concern of taxpaying Americans," said Peter LaBarbera, senior policy analyst at the Culture and Family Institute in Washington. Mr. LaBarbera and those who share his sentiments have initiated a grass-roots e-mail campaign, encouraging like-minded citizens to call their local PBS station and ask them not to air the show -- or at least, to provide equal time for a similar film from the opposing viewpoint. More than half of PBS funding comes from viewers and national and state governments -- and that is what has caused controversy. The documentary, "Scouts Honor," examines the aftermath of last summers Supreme Court ruling that the Boy Scouts may exclude homosexual members and leaders. It follows the lives of 16-year-old Boy Scout Steven Cozza and 71-year-old Scoutmaster David Rice. They are the heterosexual founders of "Scouting for All," an alliance of homosexuals and heterosexuals that is fighting the Boy Scouts policy. People on both sides of the issue who have viewed the film say that it is done in such a way as to make the Boy Scouts appear homophobic and intolerant, while making Steven appear heroic and worthy of admiration for his conviction and tenacity. "It really showed the courage of Steven Cozza in a way that I thought was very heartwarming and very powerful," said Amy Koberta, spokeswoman for Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG). The show will air locally on Channels 22 and 26 tomorrow at 10 p.m. as one in a series of "Point of View" independent nonfiction films. "Scouts Honor" was produced by Mr. Shepard in association with the Independent Television Service (ITVS). ITVS was established by Congress "to fund and promote programming that involves creative risks and addresses the needs of underserved audiences." Ms. Koberta says that the homosexual community is one such underserved audience and lauds PBS decision to air "Scouts Honor." Many religious and conservative groups do not. "If there was ever an overserved audience proportionally, its [homosexuals]," Mr. LaBarbera said. "To say theyre underserved is the height of ridiculousness." Pro-family conservative Guyla Mills of Kerusso Ministries, a nonprofit organization in Newport News, Va., agrees, and says that as a public broadcasting network, PBS should make an effort to balance its programming. "It was very one-sided," she said of "Scouts Honor." She said that while the film included interviews with people supportive of the Boy Scouts policy, the film was slanted to evoke sympathy with Steven, not the Boy Scouts. Ms. Koberta says the film was "very well-balanced" and includes the opposing viewpoint. But Mr. LaBarbera says that any mention of the opposition was "token." He says Mr. Shepard, the films producer, is a known homosexual activist and says the video has been shown at "Gay Pride" events in an attempt to mobilize homosexuals against the Boy Scouts. Additionally, several homosexual activists, including Kevin Jennings, executive director for the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN), are on the films board of advisers. Mr. LaBarbera says any film with that kind of track record is obviously slanted -- something he finds unacceptable in taxpayer-funded programming. "I dont think a documentary always needs to be two-sided, but PBS is supposed to serve the nation," Mr. LaBarbera said. "I dont think the purpose of PBS is to be used to spread propaganda against one of Americas most beloved institutions." The Boy Scouts of America was chartered by Congress in 1916 as an educational program for boys to build character, train them in citizenship responsibilities and help them develop personal fitness. Scouts take an oath that says, "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight." The Scouts say that while they do not make efforts to learn the sexual orientation of members, open homosexuality is inconsistent with the organizations values. James Dale, an Eagle Scout in New Jersey, was expelled from the organization in 1989 when officials found out he was homosexual. He sued the Boy Scouts in state court in 1992, but a Superior Court judge dismissed his claims in 1995. A New Jersey appellate court overturned that decision in 1998 and the state Supreme Court upheld it in 1999. The U.S. Supreme Court overturned that ruling last summer, affirming that the Boy Scouts may make its own rules regarding membership and leadership. Angered by the U.S. Supreme Courts action, Steven and Mr. Rice began a media campaign and petition in their hometown of Petaluma, Calif., attempting to change the Scouts policy. "Whats ironic is that the values and tenets that Steven Cozza learned in Scouting about fairness, about sticking up for the rights of all people, and being honest and open in your relationships sort of welled up in him and moved him to take a stand," Mr. Shepard said.