eisely

Does anybody know any more about this reported incident from a New Mexico newspaper? One wonders what these boys were doing. Outright attacks by bears are highly unusual. Dozens Of Bears Destroyed In 2001 Invasion The bear invasion of 2001 has been one of this summer's big stories. But photos and video of bears wandering through backyards is only part of the story. In fact the New Mexico Game and Fish department says officers and landowners have destroyed 64 bears this year. Most of them in northern New Mexico after the bears killed livestock. Other animals were put down after repeatedly wandering into populated areas. Most of the time the bears do not harm humans. But last weekend a 93-year old woman in Mora County died from a bear attack and a couple boy scouts were injured in attacks at the Philmont Boys Scout Ranch this summer near Raton.

This story involves the City of Ann Arbor Michigan. The city participates in United Way as an employer. The local United Way still supports scouting. Therefore, the city council wants to pull out of United Way, or make it more difficult and costly for city employees to support charities of their choice. Dumb and dumber. Ann Arbor questions Boy Scout support Issues of gay rights may lead city to drop United Way campaign August 20, 2001 BY MARYANNE GEORGE FREE PRESS ANN ARBOR BUREAU The Ann Arbor City Council is to vote tonight on a resolution to withdraw from the Washtenaw United Way campaign because the group supports the Boy Scouts. Democratic Councilman Stephen Hartwell, who supports the resolution, says the Boy Scouts' policy banning homosexuals as scout leaders conflicts with the city's human rights ordinance banning discrimination. "This is a discrimination issue," Hartwell said. "The Boy Scouts wanted to exclude men and boys on the basis of sexual orientation. They want to turn it into a private organization, but they use schools and public resources." Hartwell said council members decided to consider withdrawing from the United Way campaign, which begins next month, after negotiations seeking a compromise broke down between the city and United Way officials. Hartwell said the city had suggested listing all 80 organizations that the United Way funds on a pledge card for city employees, including the Boy Scouts, and allowing employees to choose which charities to support. If the employee chose the Boy Scouts, the city would not use payroll deductions to send the money to the United Way, Hartwell said. The pledge card would also not include the United Way's community fund, which contributes to about 39 organizations, including the Boy Scouts. Last year, the city's 950 employees donated about $45,000 to the United Way, including $25,000 to the community fund, said Jim Cieslar, president of the Washtenaw United Way. The campaign raised $8.8 million last year. Cieslar said United Way officials oppose a campaign that limits an employee's right to choose and could not accept the compromise proposed by City Council members. "I understand the situation they're in, and whatever we can do to make it work, we will do," Cieslar said. "The limiting of choice is the issue for us. "The Boy Scouts are a very controversial and complicated issue. Some see this as a case of discrimination, others see as a right for a private organization to set its own standards," he said. "We respect the right of all agencies to pursue its own values and principles within the boundaries of the law." Bob Poole, executive director of the Great Sauk Trail Boy Scouts Council, which serves about 18,000 scouts in eight counties including Washtenaw, said the issue is a matter of choice. Last year, the council received about $91,000 from the Washtenaw United Way community fund and about $46,700 from designated donations, he said. "Our concern with the City Council is that employees should have a right to designate whomever they wish," Poole said. Of the 10 United Way organizations funding the Great Sauk Trail Council, only Ann Arbor is considering ending donations, Poole said. Nationally, 10 United Way organizations, including the United Way in Allegan County, have stopped contributing to the Boy Scouts since 1992 because of its stand on homosexuals, said Gregg Shields, spokesman for the Boy Scouts of America, based in Irving, Texas. In Ann Arbor, Republican council members Joe Upton and Marcia Higgins say they oppose the resolution because it limits employees' ability to choose a charity. Both say contracting with an alternate fund-raising organization or reprogramming the city payroll to send donations directly to 800 charitable organizations represented in the county would not be a good use of taxpayer money. "Without the United Way's help, total contributions to charities will be lower," Upton said. "This is an extreme interpretation of the city's human rights ordinance, which governs employment practices. It would be different if we had an application from the Boy Scouts to build a camp. Let the employees decide." Bryan Weinert, the city's manager of resource recovery and solid waste and co-chair of the local United Way campaign, said opinions among city employees vary. But a majority are upset about the council resolution and are concerned about its possible impact on the charitable groups. Because Democrats have a 9-2 majority on the council, the resolution has a good chance of passing, Hartwell said. But Democratic Mayor John Hieftje said several compromises are being discussed, including contracting with an alternative fund-raiser or allowing employees to write their own pledge card for the United Way this year without listing any specific charities. "I would like to see us take a middle path," he said.

Rooster7 is correct to point out that US military is under similar attack on this issue. As everybody says, continue to think, act, and speak positively.

OGE, You ask why scouting has the bulls eye painted on it. I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but I think the answer is that there is a definite movement to change the way that America looks at homosexuality, along with a variety of other lifestyle issues. Outside of organized religion, scouting is the only movement or organization of national stature that says "no." It is no accident that organized religion gets the same treatment in the media that scouting does. I see the attack on scouting as part of a much broader attack on traditional values in this country. The gay rights movement has seized a dominating position in urban areas in disproportion to its numbers, influencing such things as United Way. They also have succeeded in painting themselves as victims of discrimination, not people who have chosen a certain life style. All this contributes to the negative view of scouting current today. Only the Roman Catholic Church has achieved the level of vituperation from the gay community that scouting currently enjoys. Were you aware of an incident several years ago when gay activists invaded St. Patrick's cathedral during a mass, went up to the alter, and seized and desecrated the hosts during the communion liturgy? One does not have to be a catholic to find such an action incredibly repugnant. And yet scouters and the Pope enjoy a unique position in the eyes of the American news media as haters, equivalent to the guys who dragged the black man to his death in Texas a few years ago and the people who murdered the young gay college student in Wyoming. How's that for logic?

This situation in Green Bay, as also suggeested in other posts, suggests that scouts are being singled out. It would be interesting to know how the requirements "not to discriminate" are being handled by United Way chapters with respect to other participatiing agencies. What about age based discrimination? Gender based discrimination? Race based discrimination? How closely is United Way looking at these things?

As a longstanding member of OA, and recently a district level advisor, I agree with the other posts that OA is not a good place to learn camping skills. OA is the national honor society within scouting, and exists to recognize outstanding scouts, perform service, and promote camping (which is different than providing camping training). Adults can be elected into the OA by their units and here is the requirement. First of all the unit with which the adult is affiliated must elect at least one youth member during the twelve month election cycle (usually a calendar year). The requirements for youth eligibility for election are: actively registered, first class scout or higher, approved by unit leader, Less than 21 years of age at time of election, fifteen nights camping in the 24 months preceding election under the auspices of the BSA (of which 6 nights must be at a long term camp). Only one session at a summer camp can be counted for this purpose. Thus a youth who attended summer camp two summers in a row, gets to count only one of those sessions. The balance must be made up in "short term" camping activities, a concept which is not defined. All camping must be under BSA auspices. Thus recreational camping with one's family does not count. Based on the rank requirement alone, no Webelos or cub scout can be elected to OA, therefore no cub unit can elect an adult volunteer. The nights camping is a rolling requirement. We had a youth elected in 2000 who never made it to an ordeal within the prescribed twelve month window after his election, and was not eligible for election in 2001 because he had not gone to summer camp with the troop for the two preceding summers. If a unit elects at least one youth member during an election cycle, the unit committee may nominate one adult for the first 50 active scouts in the unit. If there are more than 50 active youth, the unit may nominate two adults. The OA does not prescribe any rules or procedure for selecting adults other than imposing the eligibility requirement. To be eligible adults must meet the nights camping requirement in the same manner as a youth. As a practical matter, it is very difficult for an adult to qualify unless they commit a lot of time to camping with their unit, including at least one session of summer camp. Old Grey Eagle points out that extended expeditions at high adventure bases may be counted as "long term camps." The official OA guidelines that I am familiar with make no mention of such activities. I have counted such activities as either "long term camp" or "other camping" when I have reviewed records. jmcquillan states in his post that the youth at the chapter level control adult membership. In our council, adult membership is handled strictly through adult channels. Adult nomination forms are prepared and signed by the unit committee chair, approved by the OA district (chapter) advisor, and approved by the council (lodge) advisor. In any given year, few units would have more than one adult eligible, and the committee essentially "appoints" the adult candidates. Any person registered with scouting over age of 21 is counted as an adult for OA purposes. There are numerous OA websites that can provide more information.

This is becoming an increasingly common story. Personally I don't think scouts should sell out to United Way and I am glad this council stood up. Hopefully they will find replacement funding. Some councils have found that direct donations increase as a result of these disputes. Scouts, United Way split The Bay Lakes Council will seek $79,000 from the public instead of United Way of Brown County By Christopher Clough News-Chronicle The Bay Lakes Council of the Boy Scouts of America announced Thursday it is unable to resolve differences in policy with the United Way of Brown County, which provides funds for scouting programs. Because of the conflict, the council said it will seek other sources of funds for its traditional Cub Scout, Boy Scout and Venturing programs for 2003. An agreement is already in place for the council to receive United Way funding through 2002. The difference came about when the United Way of Brown County adopted a nondiscrimination policy for its member agencies on April 11. The Boy Scouts do not allow homosexual members or leaders. The two sides have met several times since then to resolve the situation but were not able to come to an agreement. "We are trying to work something out," said Dan Platkowski, president of the council's executive board. "But our indication is it's going to take a long time, so we're not taking the risk of not having funding available in 2003. "We're kind of agreeing to disagree. The Boy Scouts do not want to change their policies, and at present, there's no indication that either party can come to terms." Toni Loch, president and chief executive officer of the United Way of Brown County, said the agency would look at continuing its funding of nontraditional scouting programs such as Learning for Life, where the discrimination issue doesn't come into play. "It's acceptable to say neither side changed," she said. "Both have their own beliefs and philosophies. We've agreed that traditional programs will not be eligible for funding, but we'll look for nontraditional programs where we can continue." She said the agency gave $79,000 to the council this year, which Platkowski said was about 12 to 14 percent of the total funding for the scouts. Platkowski said the council board began discussing possible scenarios to find new funds about two weeks ago, after a third meeting with the agency on the subject. "We believed there was some common ground we could get to," he said. "In April, when we first got together, they talked about being different from the Fox Valley United Way (which is also ceasing funding of the council for the same reason). But after the second or third meeting, it became apparent the United Way was not going to change the heart of its new policy." Thirty-one United Way agencies are located within the geographic boundaries of the council, and the Brown County and Fox Valley agencies are the only ones withholding funding because of the scouts' policy, Platkowski said. Platkowski said he was disappointed to be part of the council's decision. But he said he bore no bad feelings toward the United Way, a sentiment Loch echoed. "It's kind of a sad day when someone who's been a partner with you all this time can't be a partner any more because of a disagreement," he said. "I hope the United Way has a successful campaign this year, and I hope the Boy Scouts have a successful campaign." "We feel we had excellent discussions with them," Loch said. "We really have valued the programs the scouts have done with us."

In July a group from our troop backpacked in Yosemite (I did not participate) and used bear canisters for their primary storage. They also strung up a bear bag at their first camp site and lost everything in the bag. No cables were available for this. The bear canisters were not even touched. It appears that bears in Yosemite now recognize bear canisters as unbreakable, even though food odors were present. I for one believe that the bears in Yosemite are unusually smart when it comes to human food. An interesting field test of this equipment. The canisters can also be used as short camp stools.

Hey gang, I want to add one other perspective to this. While one has to register to participate, this is not a private forum. It is really accessible by anybody. The site probably gets a lot visits from people curious about scouting and/or hostile to scouting. While I enjoy humor as much as anybody, I make it a point of policy not to introduce questionable items in groups of people or on the internet. I do not say or put anything in writing that I could not live with seeing in the newspaper tomorrow. That may sound unduly paranoid, but it is a simple rule to live by. Others will judge us by what they see in this forum, and we ought to keep that im mind. Did you hear the one about the lawyer and eagle scout?

I would further refine a point in response to an earlier post by jmcquillan. A trek leader doesn't even have to be an assistant scoutmaster. We have some adults who are competent outdoorspeople (not just outdoorsmen) who are happy to lead an occasional outing, but do not wish to commit to a larger role as an ASM. The key question for accepting such volunteers is the qualification of the individual to lead the trek in question, not their title in the organization. I would go so far as to say that I have seen some assistant scoutmasters who were nice people and capable of making a contribution, but whom I would not want to see leading an expedition into the back country.

Welcome to scouting at network speed. A lot of people share your concerns and reservations. There are numerous threads in this forum about fast track advancement where similar concerns have been raised. When I first became re-involved in scouting as an adult leader about ten years ago, national had completed a professionally conducted study of boys who left after one year in the program. One of the conclusions was that, if a boy completed first class in his first year he was more likely to stick around. I can't argue with that conclusion, but the program may suffer in other ways because of this acceleration. It is up to you as part of your troop's cadre of adult leaders to try to manage your advancement program in a way that makes sense. Most resident summer camps have programs for new scouts that push them through a lot of requirements for the first three ranks. It still takes a certain amount of time to get to first class, even if all the skills are signed off, because the boy has to participate in a minimum number of events other than troop meetings. You may wish to devise programs to provide a little more depth to the training the boys have already allegedly received before they get to their first class scout master conference. Good luck.

Apparently this individual was applying for readmission in the Minuteman Council that has this new policy. It is not clear to me what is going on in this case, but it appears to me that the Minuteman Council is trying to have it both ways, and looking bad everywhere. Maybe someone who lives in the area (jmcquillan?) may be able to offer more information on this particular contretemps. Homosexual Spurned in Attempt to Regain Admittance to Boy Scouts By Michael Betsch CNSNews.com Editorial Assistant August 13, 2001 (CNSNews.com) - A former Hanover, New Hampshire Boy Scout leader, dismissed last year for announcing his homosexuality in a newspaper interview, thought he had found a way to get back into scouting after a troop in Boston adopted a "don't ask, don't tell" policy for homosexuals. He was wrong. The Massachusetts Minuteman Council, one of the state's largest, with a membership of 18,000 scouts and 330 troops, changed a bylaw July 19th to allow inclusion of homosexual scoutmasters under the "don't ask-don't tell" policy. But, Mark Noel's application was rejected last week anyway. The Minuteman Council said its decision was based on the fact that the Boy Scouts of America national headquarters had already revoked Noel's membership last summer, following his newspaper admission. Brock Bigsby, scout executive for the Mass. Minuteman Council, said the rejection of Noel's application to be a scout leader, was "consistent with the national Boy Scouts policy, since scout leaders would not be permitted to discuss their sexual orientation." However, Friday's Boston Globe accused Bigsby and other Minuteman Council officials of flip-flopping on the homosexual inclusion issue. Prior to the Noel decision, the Globe had quoted Bigsby as saying, "Gay Scout leaders would be permitted as long as they did not discuss their sexual orientation 'in scouting,'" which, according to Bigsby, meant "any scouting-related function." Noel believes the Minuteman Council should recognize the difference between the comments he made to a newspaper and the conversations he had with the boys under his command. "If [bigsby] wants to deny my registration because I said I was gay outside of Scouts in a newspaper, then I am going to appeal it because that policy doesn't make sense," Noel said. Eric Ferrero, a spokesman for the Lesbian and Gay Rights Project of the American Civil Liberties Union noted Bigsby's change in tone from July 19th, when the homosexual-inclusive bylaw was created. "They need to nail down this policy," Ferrero told the Globe. "You either have a policy on non-discrimination, or you don't." Bigsby maintains Noel had ulterior motives in applying with the Mass. Minuteman Council. "It sounds like [Noel] wants to use scouting as a soapbox to advance his personal agenda," Bigsby told the Globe. However, Noel insists his sole reason for applying for a leadership position with the Minuteman Council was to "help scouts get rifle merit badges." Noel is a former police officer, the Globe noted. Included on Noel's readily accessible Internet homepage is an article that appeared in the July 21, 2000 edition of the Birmingham Post-Herald, in which Noel details his former police employment and reasons for leaving. "Back in Atlanta," the Birmingham Post-Herald article reads, "I worked my way through college by serving as a police officer in Cobb County. It was during my second year there that the Cobb County Board of Commissioners passed a resolution condemning the gay lifestyle as being incompatible with the community standards of Cobb County. Needless to say, this caused a big uproar in Atlanta. Some may remember this resolution as the reason why all the Olympic venues for the 1996 games were pulled from Cobb County. I simply remember it as the start of the three most stressful years of my life, since I felt that my job and education had been placed in immediate jeopardy. I retreated into the closet and shut the door tightly. When I finally graduated from college, I left Cobb County and swore to myself that I would never live in the closet again." Noel recently told the Boston Globe, "I am not going to use this as a soapbox; I never have. I said I was gay in a public forum, but I never brought it up with the boys in the troop." However, Noel did tell a different story in a September 7, 2000 editorial, published in the Detroit Free Press. Noel wrote, "A few older scouts in my troop caught me off-guard. The James Dale case had been argued before the U.S. Supreme Court just a few hours before the meeting that night, and these guys wanted to know what I knew about the case, what I thought, and why the Boys Scouts of America discriminate against gays. They had no idea how closely I followed the James Dale case. You see Dale and I are both the same age, we're both Eagle Scouts and members of the Order of the Arrow, we both served as assistant scoutmasters, and when we were in college, we were both leaders of our campus' gay and lesbian group. So, in case you haven't guessed it yet, yes, we're both gay." According to Noel, "None of these scouts knew all this. So when they cornered me - however innocently - with their questions, I instantly found myself in the dreaded, Don't Ask, Don't Tell, dilemma: I can't tell them what I know or what I think, but if I'm going to be trustworthy, I can't lie to them either. "So I dodged the question and got them to discuss the issue among themselves," Noel's editorial reads. "They quickly surprised me again by revealing that a few of them were supporters of the Gay-Straight Alliance at their high school and that one of their friends had even testified before the Vermont legislature during their hearings on the recent civil unions bill." Bigsby said the decision to reject Noel's application was based on the fact that discussion of his homosexuality was off-limits in "any scouting function, any scouting scenario ... that includes newspaper editorials," the Globe reported.

One of the other posts about trousers and growing boys reminds me of a way to extend the useful life of a merit badge sash and avoid transferring all the patches to a larger sash. When a boy starts his scouting career and first needs a merit badge sash, buy the large sash. This may hang to the floor on a small boy without modifying the sash. Do this by taking up a loop of fabric at the top of the sash, where the hem rests on the shoulder. Do not cut the fabric. Put this loop underneath. This will make the sash shorter for a smaller body. As the boy grows taller, and needs more space for all those patches, let out the loop. Save sewing effort and dollars!

My best recollection is that only awards, ranks, badges, etc. given by the scouts are to be worn on uniforms. As jmcquillan suggests, look it up in the Insignia Guide. I would not rely on the casual advice of others on questions of insignia and the proper wearing thereof. A lot folks who are otherwise very good scouters are very sloppy and "out of compliance" when it comes to insignia.

We have a different vocabulary for events and outings. We refer to the adult whose name goes on the tour permit as a "trek leader," although there may not be any trekking involved. This can be any registered adult volunteer with the unit. In spreading the work around, our scoutmaster (unit leader) is seldom the trek leader.

When one talks about "the" unit leader, I infer that you are talking about "the" scoutmaster or "the" cub master or "the" crew advisor, of which there is one per unit. If you change the article to "a" unit leader, then that could be almost anybody. People use the term "unit leader" very loosely. The preferable term might simply be "adult volunteer" or "scouter." The term "leader" in this context implies to me someone more directly involved in a volunteer capacity working directly with the youth members. Thus, for example, district volunteer staff would not normally be labeled "leaders" and I seldom hear district staff referred to as "leaders." Similarly, unit committee chairs are not "leaders" in the sense that their primary responsbility is not interaction with the youth membership of the unit.

This didn't make your list Stan, but you might want to consider adding "patriotic."

Amazingly, this story still has legs. It would appear that the opponents of BSA policy finally figured out a way to get their message across in a less offensive manner. The online story can be found at sfgate.com, including photographs of yesterday's protest event. Fortunately the Japanese scouts found a better way to use their time by going camping. Japanese Scouts get a public apology U.S. group's policy on gays criticized Charles Burress, Chronicle Staff Writer Friday, August 10, 2001 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Berkeley -- Under pressure after the barring of Berkeley City Hall to visiting Japanese Boy and Girl Scouts, a contrite City Council member Kriss Worthington expanded his apology yesterday to include the people of Japan and condemned the Boy Scouts of America's policy against gays. Worthington joined a Berkeley Eagle Scout and others at a rally on City Hall to say criticism should be directed at the national Boy Scouts, not Berkeley. Worthington and Berkeley Mayor Shirley Dean have been deluged with dozens of angry e-mails and phone calls from around the country because Dean, reacting to Worthington's objections about the U.S. Scouts' anti-gay policy, canceled a Monday ceremonial meeting with visiting Scouts from Japan. "To the people of Japan, to the Japanese ambassador, and especially to the Japanese Scouts, I say, 'Gomen nasai,' " Worthington said, using a Japanese expression for "I'm sorry." On Wednesday, he expressed an apology not addressed to anyone in particular. "Instead of attacking Berkeley, . . . concerned citizens should be writing to the BSA (Boy Scouts of America)," said Linda Hodges, a board member of Scouting for All, a Petaluma organization actively involved in a campaign to remove the Scouts' anti-homosexual policy. "It's hard to be David to the mighty Goliath that is the BSA," she said, turning to Worthington. Berkeley Eagle Scout Ryan Georgi said yesterday was the first time he has spoken in public against the national policy. He and fellow Scouts who oppose the policy are "caught in the middle." In Berkeley, the Scouts are attacked for being part of the organization and in the Scouting world outside Berkeley, the troop is attacked for not supporting Scout policy, he said. "There are some of us working inside the organization to bring about the change," said Georgi, who is entering the University of California at Berkeley. A small fraction of Eagle Scouts have returned their badges in protest of the policy, which is supported by a sizable majority of those in Scouting. Worthington, who is gay, objected to the Scouts' meeting with Dean at City Hall because it would have included some Boy Scouts of America, who are hosting the Japanese Scouts. U.S. Girl Scouts, also helping to host the visitors, would have been at the meeting as well. Much of the criticism focused on the exclusion of the Girl Scouts and Japanese Scouts, who have no policy against gays. Saying she wanted to spare the Scouts from embarrassment and possible protest, Dean agreed to meet with them instead at their goodbye "Sayonara" dinner at a private location outside Berkeley tonight. Worthington said he wanted to have flyers distributed at the City Hall meeting and to have it be "an educational experience" on the Boy Scouts' ban on openly gay leaders. The Berkeley-Albany Girl Scout Association yesterday issued a statement of support of Dean "in her upholding of the city of Berkeley's nondiscrimination policy. We understand her decision not to meet with us at the originally scheduled time." The meeting -- at which the Japanese Scouts present a proclamation from the mayor of Berkeley's sister city, Sakai -- is a traditional ceremonial highlight for the Scouts visiting in a biannual exchange program from Berkeley's sister city in Japan. In the past, the ceremony has taken place at the City Halls of each city. Leaders of the Japanese Girl Scouts said they do not wish to comment on the controversy, according to their American hosts. The Japanese Boy Scouts have spent the past two days camping in the Sierra and could not be reached. Council member Dona Spring also attended the rally yesterday, saying the American Medical Association recently took a stand urging youth groups like the Boy Scouts to stop discrimination against gays. She quoted Steve DeToy, a spokesman for the Rhode Island Medical Association, who said that "teens who are discriminated against suffer greater health risks, starting with anxiety and mental health issues and leading to suicide." E-mail Charles Burress at cburress@sfchronicle.com.

Apparently the behavior of the Berkeley politicians was even too much for the San Francisco Chronicle. Enough said. Boorish in Berkeley Thursday, August 9, 2001 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BERKELEY MAYOR Shirley Dean and Councilman Kriss Worthington played right into the hands of those who defend the Boy Scouts' anti-gay policy this week. By canceling a City Hall ceremony with Berkeley-area Scouts and 38 visiting Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts from Japan, Berkeley politicians allowed a just cause -- fighting bigotry -- to be subject to ridicule. The Boy Scouts' national anti-gay discrimination policy is indefensible, but, please, leave these kids out of it. Many Berkeley Scouts have taken a courageous stand opposing the national organization's policy against gays. And the Scouts in Japan do not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. Local governments and school districts are justified in refusing to provide public facilities to any group that discriminates, including the Boy Scouts. Parents who abhor bigotry may not want to allow their children to join. And many Americans may want to withhold financial support from Boy Scouts of America. Perhaps the strongest message of all was sent by the Berkeley Scouts who stood tall through the taunts from other troops at a recent Jamboree because of their principled stand. They did not deserve a cheap snub when they returned to Berkeley. They deserve merit badges for tolerance.

I like Mike's answer. On point as always. Since most troops are chartered to churches of one kind or another, that is a good starting point. Then again, a lot churches are confused, or least the leadership is confused, about what their key beliefs really are. Nevertheless, I am not aware of any denomination that would consider sex outside of marriage to be other than a sin. People may not want to admit that, but that is a fact. A wise old Irish priest pointed out to me years ago that the ten commandments have been reframed to the ten suggestions in most people's minds. I am not a puritan or a prude, and I am not a saint, but I get really uncomfortable with the examples some adults set. Some kind of private discussion with the adult leaders involved, as suggested above, would seem to be in order.

Berkeley is also known locally among some folks as Berserkly and the Peoples' Republic of Berkeley. Then again, Santa Monica is also sometimes referred to as the Peoples' Republic of Santa Monica. Be all that is it may, one would think that the voters of Berkeley would expect, and be entitled to, more than just a "knew jerk" reaction by any elected representative on any issue. Berkeley does provide some entertainment for the rest of us though. Glad I don't live there.

Day Three Snubbed Japanese Scouts get apology Worthington blames 'knee-jerk' reaction Charles Burress, Chronicle Staff Writer Thursday, August 9, 2001 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Berkeley -- Deluged by a torrent of anger and ridicule over Berkeley's pulling back the welcome mat for visiting Japanese Boy Scouts, City Council member Kriss Worthington apologized yesterday for how the problem was handled. He also announced that he will join local scouting representatives today for a "united" stand against the Boy Scout ban on homosexuals on the steps of City Hall, where the scouts were barred from entering Monday. "We just had a knee-jerk reaction," Worthington said, referring to roles played by him and Mayor Shirley Dean in canceling a scheduled meeting between Dean and a group of scouts from Japan. ". . . We're trying to do the right thing, but we ended up looking foolish because of Shirley and me." Dean said she was "totally floored" by Worthington's statements, and defended her role. The city, and Dean and Worthington in particular, have suddenly found themselves primary targets in the anguished battle being waged around the country over the Boy Scouts and gays. But the ire seems heightened in this case because in Berkeley, unlike in other places, the excluded scouts included Japanese Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, as well as U.S. Girl Scouts, not any of whom are involved in the homosexuality dispute. Worthington said critical e-mails and phone calls are running about 10 to 1. "Their instinctive reaction is thinking Berkeley hates all scouts," he said. "I'm basically apologizing for the clumsiness of the city of Berkeley in the message that was received regarding our attempt to oppose the discrimination." The 38 scouts from Berkeley's sister city in Japan, Sakai, had been scheduled to present Dean with a proclamation from Sakai's mayor. Following tradition going back many years in the exchange program, the presentation was to have been at City Hall, the ceremonial highlight of their weeklong trip. They would have been accompanied by American Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts, who are acting as their hosts, and Worthington, who is gay, protested. He repeated yesterday, as he said before, that his target was solely the American Boy Scouts, not the Japanese scouts or the U.S. Girl Scouts. Although Berkeley's ban on subsidies to groups that discriminate would not have forbidden the meeting, Dean canceled it and had it rescheduled to take place at a private, undisclosed location tomorrow in El Sobrante. She said she wanted to avoid embarrassing the scouts and possible protests. Worthington said he would have liked to have made the meeting into an "educational experience" about the Boy Scout ban on gays, but Dean said she didn't want the youths, some of whom are as young as 10, to be "caught in any kind of cross-fire." Saying she too opposes the Boy Scouts' anti-homosexual policy, Dean said she felt the Monday meeting was "not the time or place" for such a discussion, and that it was up to the scouts' leaders and parents to decide how to raise the issue with them. Dean said she will decline Worthington's invitation to City Council members to attend the 5 p.m. protest at City Hall steps today. She said she wants to calm the uproar in Berkeley, and she asked whether Worthington's actions "could have to do with the fact that he's running for Assembly." Worthington has argued that no age is too young to be taught about discrimination, and he said his advocacy on this issue comes not from his political campaign but from his history of fighting for "progressive causes." Dean and Worthington belong to opposing political factions on the council and have clashed sharply on several issues. Worthington said today's City Hall gathering will include representatives of local scout groups, who complained earlier this week that they were being unfairly vilified when many of them are opposed to the national Scout policy. Karen Lewis, who is co-host to the Japanese Girl Scouts, said their leaders were informed of the controversy and preferred not to comment. E-mail Charles Burress at cburress@sfchronicle.com.

Follow up story on the Berkeley fiasco. Berkeley furor at snub of Scouts Emotional outcry over Japanese group Charles Burress, Chronicle Staff Writer Wednesday, August 8, 2001 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Berkeley's mayor was under siege and a gay councilman was labeled everything from a hero to an idiot yesterday in a new uproar over the city's stumbling effort to oppose the Boy Scouts' ban on homosexual leaders. Mayor Shirley Dean was assailed by unfriendly radio talk shows and angry residents after a Chronicle story about her decision to cancel a meeting Monday at City Hall with visiting Scouts from Japan. Kriss Worthington, an openly gay member of the Berkeley City Council whose objections led to Dean's decision to keep the Scouts out of City Hall, said he received "very emotional" calls from people on both sides. Anti-Worthington epithets sent to The Chronicle from around the country ranged from "idiot" to the unprintable. A spokesman for the Japanese government called the incident "unfortunate." Dean had been scheduled to meet with 38 Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts from Berkeley's sister city in Japan, Sakai. Following a tradition of many years, the ceremonial highlight of their weeklong visit to the United States was to have been the presentation to her of a proclamation from the Sakai mayor at City Hall Monday morning. Japanese Scouts have no policy on homosexuals, but because they would have been accompanied by Berkeley-area Boy Scouts, who are acting as hosts, Worthington objected. He said the city should not support an organization that discriminates. A city law bans subsidies to groups that discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, but the city attorney said Monday's event would not have violated that policy. Dean said she acted to spare the Scouts embarrassment and possible protests. The meeting was rescheduled for Friday at an undisclosed location outside the city. "The cancellation was unfortunate," said Masaya Sagawa, a spokesman for the Japanese Consulate in San Francisco, "but I understand this is really a sensitive issue for American Boy Scouts." The chairman of the Berkeley Boy Scout hosting committee, Kevin Takei, said the Japanese visitors were not told why they were barred from City Hall, only that the mayor had to cancel the meeting. Yesterday's flurry of phone calls, e-mails and letters to the editor included those from frustrated Scout parents and leaders in Berkeley who said city political leaders should not attack the Berkeley Scouts, who routinely help clean and restore parks and school yards, but should cooperate with the local Scouts who oppose the national policy. "We are not the problem," said Ellen Georgi, a Cub Scout leader and parent of three Scouts. "Living in Berkeley, we have our liberal ideals and we get slapped in the face wherever we go." They're treated like pariahs by their own city and school district and as traitors outside the city, she said. At last week's national scouting Jamboree, some Utah Scouts called them "homo lovers," she said. Her Pack 30 risked its standing last year by issuing a statement opposing the national policy. Her son Ryan, an Eagle Scout entering the University of California at Berkeley, recently completed a garden project at a Berkeley public school that won third place in a national contest, but he received no local recognition, not even a thanks from the principal, Georgi said. "Why not glorify what Berkeley Scouts are doing instead of vilifying them?" complained Councilwoman Betty Olds, who opposes both the national Scout policy and the complaint raised by Worthington. But Mark Chekal, former chairman of the Berkeley Community Health Commission, praised Worthington as a "hero," saying that anti-gay policies by the Boy Scouts and other influential organizations "are a large part of the problem that leads to teen gay and lesbian suicides." Councilwoman Dona Spring said Berkeley Scouts should secede from the Boy Scouts of America and form an independent organization. She said Dean should have refused to meet with the Scouts in her official capacity. Several communities across the country have banned Boy Scouts from regular use of public facilities, but Berkeley leaders were divided yesterday over whether they should go further and ban some visits to public property. Spring said the Berkeley ban on subsidies to groups that discriminate should be expanded to include receptions involving city officials. Worthington said he does not favor a ban on Boy Scouts merely being present on city property, but he said serving refreshments to them or accepting a proclamation from them might violate city policy or at least warrant turning the event into "an educational exercise" on discrimination. A number of scouting groups around the country have called for the policy on gays to be changed, but they are opposed by a formidable movement of more conservative groups inside and outside the organization. "It's one of those things where people feel very strongly on one side or the other," Worthington said.

This is a tough one. It is hard to claim that we are trying to set positive examples, and tolerate bad examples among the adult leadership. People living together as unmarried couples is a widespread practice today. You'd have to be blind not to notice. I might be inclined to have a private conversation with the adult leader involved to learn more about what is going on. One question that comes to mind, is how did the scout become aware of the adult leader's living arrangements in the first place? Unless there are children involved, it would be unusual for scouts to learn of such situations.

This story largely speaks for itself. The reference to a Sea Scout Ship being evicted is true. This unit is still in business elsewhere. The leadership of the unit is suing the City of Berkeley for breach of contract. Apparently the free lease in perpetuity at the city marina was in consideration of free rip rap provided by the scouts decades ago from a quarry owned by the scouts when the breakwater was first constructed. A contest: How many points of the scout law has the City of Berkeley now breached? Japanese scouts left in lurch by Berkeley Gay councilman has meeting canceled Charles Burress, Chronicle Staff Writer Tuesday, August 7, 2001 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A group of Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts from Japan found the welcome mat at Berkeley City Hall yanked out from under them yesterday after a city councilmember objected to the Boy Scouts of America's policy on gays. The meeting at City Hall was to have been the ceremonial highlight of a weeklong visit to the United States for 38 scouts from Sakai, Berkeley's sister city in Japan. "I feel it's very unfortunate because the children are innocent in all this, " said an American organizer of the program who asked not to be identified. The Japanese visitors apparently were not told why they were barred from meeting at City Hall. The scouts left in the lurch are here for a biannual exchange program. Following tradition going back many years, they had been scheduled to meet yesterday morning with Mayor Shirley Dean at City Hall, where they were to present an official proclamation from the mayor of Sakai. The gathering would have included Boy and Girl Scouts from the Berkeley area, who are hosting the Japanese scouts. Japanese scouts have no policy against gays, and the U.S. Girl Scouts officially ban discrimination. But the U.S. Boy Scouts' ban on openly gay leaders has roiled scouting ranks in recent years. Dean canceled the event after Kriss Worthington, a gay member of the council, said city property should not host an organization that discriminates. Instead the scouts are scheduled to meet with the mayor later outside the city at a location that Dean and organizers have kept secret. Dean said she wanted to avoid having the Japanese visitors "be embarrassed or subjected to any problems." City Manager Weldon Rucker supported the decision to move the event out of City Hall, Dean said. And Courtney Radsch, a spokeswoman for the Girl Scouts of the San Francisco Bay Area, said, "We're just happy that the mayor can meet (later) with the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts from Japan." "It's a non-story," said Dean, adding that the meeting is rescheduled for Friday at a private location in El Cerrito. WRENCHING DEBATE Berkeley went through a wrenching debate on the Boy Scouts' gay policy three years ago, when the City Council ended a 60-year tradition of providing free docking space to the Sea Scouts. City policy forbids subsidies for any group that discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation as well as race, gender and other factors. The carrying of letters from one mayor to the other by the scouts has been a tradition of the Berkeley-Sakai sister-city program for many years. The presentation has always been at the City Hall of each city, said Denise Glaude, a leader in the Berkeley-Albany Girl Scouts. This is the 22nd year for the Boy Scout exchange program and the 20th for the Girl Scouts, she said. Asked about the reaction from the Japanese visitors, Glaude said, "They just said, 'Oh.' " Kevin Takei, chairman of the Boy Scouts hosting committee here, said the visitors were not told the reason for the cancellation. "That's what we told them -- the mayor had to cancel. They didn't ask why," he said. "I think the most important thing is for them to present the letter of greeting from Sakai to the mayor of Berkeley." The Japanese scouts and their leaders could not be reached for comment. PUSH FOR FLYERS Worthington said he would like to know the location of the meeting later in the week, because he would like to give flyers to the scouts saying Berkeley does not condone discrimination and asking them to oppose the Boy Scouts of America policy. Worthington had also wanted such flyers given to the scouts if they had come to City Hall. Dean and organizers reached yesterday said they prefer not to disclose the location. George Fosselius, who is assisting the Boy Scouts, said two places are under consideration and that the adults want to protect the youth from "embarrassment" and unwanted intrusion into their cultural exchange and scouting activities. Dean said some of the scouts are too young to be confronted with the issue. "Some of them are 10 and 12 years old." But she said she will "absolutely" answer any questions honestly and fully if she is asked. Worthington, who recently declared his candidacy for the state Assembly, disagreed, saying, "There is no age too young to learn that sexism, racism and homophobia are unacceptable." Because of their policies, Boy Scouts have been evicted from some public facilities around the country in recent years. Scouting parents and leaders are increasingly calling on the national Boy Scouts organization to repeal its policy. At the Berkeley-Albany annual Solano Avenue Stroll last September, parents accompanying a contingent of Cub Scouts carried a banner saying, "Berkeley Scout Parents Say No to Homophobia." The U.S. Supreme Court last summer upheld the Boy Scouts' policy on gays, but that did not end the controversy. Just last week, the Boy Scouts' plight made the cover of Newsweek, which reported, "Americans are increasingly torn over a beloved institution." E-mail Charles Burress at cburress@sfchronicle.com.