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This poll is too simplistic. Few would have quit over this issue, even if BSA had lost. I think it would have strengthened the resolve on both sides of the issue. Perhaps BSA as we think of it would have ceased to exist as homosexual acitivists had exploited such a ruling to force others to agree with them. Personally I would go to jail on a contempt of court charge before approving any such memberships if I were a unit chair. Wouldn't that make a nice video bit? Adult scouters going to jail in full uniform.

Campmor also has one in its catalogue.

To facilitate the tour permit process, our troop keeps current files on all vehicles that may be used and drivers that may drive. We are fortunate that we live fairly close to our council office. I routinely go by there and get tour permits approved on the spot. If there is sufficient time, I have mailed in tour permits with a self addressed postage paid return envelope. This makes it even easier for council staff to get the tour permit back to me. Faxing also works. It all depends on the competence and diligence of the people working in the council service center.

I was with a group that used Amtrak in 1995. If you have the time, it is a good way to do this trip. The major issue is making connections. If you are coming from Delaware, I presume you would change trains in Chicago. Amtrak's terrible on time performance makes this risky. There was a group that had to lay over in Chicago because Amtrak did not get them to Chicago in time to make their connection. Last summer we flew into Albuqurque (sp?). I don't know about Colorado Springs, but Southwest has very good connections to Albuqurque and, of course, has good fares. It is about a three hour drive. The advisor information you will receive lists various ground transport services you can contact.

Ask about the level of involvment on the chartered organization. Many CO's are just names, and that is far from a deal breaker, but if there is active involvement and guidance from the CO, you want to know about it. Ask about their activities. How active are they in terms of outings and what are their expectations? Do they expect you to be the adult leader responsible for every single outing? (That would be a deal breaker for me.)

The actions and opinions of this lady in your council office are suspect. There is no minimum age for any rank in Boy Scouts. There are requirements that in themselves tend to stretch things out a bit, but age does not enter into it.

Written policies are probably much less important for cub scout packs than for other types of units. When you start evaluating performance in leadership positions in scout troops, "show scout spirit", etc., written policies about what constitutes adequate performance are probably a good idea. There have been other threads in the past about boys elected to leadership positions who never show up for meetings and expect to get full credit for the time in the position. There are a variety of ways for dealing with these kinds of situations, but guidelines written in advance can avoid a lot of controversy.

Written policies on some subjects are probably a good idea. I don't know if you would call such writings by-laws.

Sorry to see you go, but that is your decision. I too object to the use of the words bigotry and intolerance.

Based on what was written, I infer that this early leaving is not for religious reasons. A conversation with the father is the best starting point.

If you are so inclined, visit the Department of Defense web page below and sign a brief message thanking the men and women of the U.S. military services for defending our freedom. The compiled list of names will be sent out to our soldiers at the end of the month. So far, there are only about 2,505,787 people have signed to date. What a shame. There should be hundreds of millions of thank you's. Pass the word that we can honor and support the defenders of freedom during National Military Appreciation Month http://www.defendamerica.mil/nmam.html It takes only 20 seconds...literally. (Please pass it on to your email friends)

I have never read any article in a magazine or newspaper, or seen any report in any other medium, on a subject that I felt I knew really well that did not contain at least one error. That includes The Wall Street Journal. The fact that I rely on the journal for much of my news reflects the fact that the paper reports on things that interest me. The fact that I read their editorials, columns and op ed pieces, most of which I agree with, proves nothing. I would point out that one of their regular columnists, Al Hunt, is very liberal. When I read an opinion piece I also look for information to support the opinion. Most of what appears in the journal as editorial material contains information as well as opinion. I used to read far more material from the far left, but gave up on it because I could predict what the writer was going to say. We should all plead guilty to reading stuff we agree with. So?

Cool...or perhaps I should say hot.

kwc57, Are you referring to Bill O'Reilly? I agree that he is arrogant and rude, but he is only a part of Fox News. What about Beggala and Carvill on CNN?

KoreaScouter, Is that government issue stuff? When I was in Viet Nam we found the government issued bug repellant spray useless for keeping bugs off of your skin, but it made a great blowtorch. This stuff also worked well for cleaning grease pencil markings off of plastic surfaces.

Silly article.

Thanx for the info. Learned something new today.

I think KoreaScouter pretty well nails it and says everything I would like to have said. I am aware of Goldberg's book, but have yet to pick it up. Local newspapers do tend to reflect one point of view or the other. The larger metropolitan newspapers are almost overwhelmingly liberal in outlook, and it shows. I submit that the success of Fox News is simply the result of more honest reporting.

Many, perhaps most, participants in this forum would agree that the media is biased against conservatives and conservative values. This piece does not relate to boy scouts, but relates to media bias. It appeared in The Wall Street Journal today. _________________ One Man's Terrorist? Ramsey Clark slurs Jesus, and the media shrug. Friday, January 17, 2003 12:01 a.m. EST Does a slur falling in a press forest make a noise if no one reports it? When Jerry Falwell labeled the prophet Mohammed a terrorist on "60 Minutes," he set off a media feeding frenzy. But when peace activist and former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark offered a similar analogy about Jesus Christ, the response was, well . . . silence. "The Christian Church overwhelmingly--there are exceptions--who choose to call Mohammed a terrorist. They could call Jesus a terrorist too," Mr. Clark told a group of reporters, somewhat awkwardly. "I mean, he was pretty tough on money lenders a time or two." Mr. Clark delivered the crack at the National Press Club last week, where he was promoting an antiwar demonstration--sponsored by International A.N.S.W.E.R. (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism)--slated to kick off tomorrow outside the Capitol. Though representatives from a number of major media all heard the remark, the only one to report on it was the Cybercast News Service (CNSNews.com), a small, Internet-based conservative news outlet. Compare this with the furor that erupted when America's most quoted Baptist minister opined on Mohammed. Editorial pages denounced him; an Iranian cleric called for his death; Muslim rioters in India killed several people; and presidential spokesman Ari Fleischer found himself asked whether the Falwell remarks discredited George W. Bush--notwithstanding the president's consistent public warnings against Muslim-bashing. A search of Factiva, the Dow Jones/Reuters database of more than 8,000 news sources, yields 182 reports with "Falwell" and "terrorist" within the first week alone. In sharp contrast, although Mr. Clark's Christological rumination has now been picked up by various Internet blogs, Factiva yielded only one hit for "Ramsey Clark and Jesus": Fox News Channel's Brit Hume. And then the networks and news organizations profess that they are shocked--shocked!--when a Bernie Goldberg writes a book accusing them of bias. Now we could call up Mr. Clark and the folks at International A.N.S.W.E.R. in high dudgeon, demanding that they apologize or distance themselves from these remarks. But too often people who say things they oughtn't to have said find their statements amplified and twisted far beyond their original import by a media-driven culture. What bothers us is the glaring double standard that reserves this treatment for only one side of the political aisle.

KoreaScouter has an important point. Military gear is made for adult use over extended periods of time, and thus may be over engineered and much heavier, compared to commercially available gear. Often it is not the best gear for youth, even if a bargain is available.

I agree with firstpusk. I would definitely talk to the district chair privately to try to find out what is going on. That person may not be aware of what has happened. Forcing a confrontation at a district committee meeting may only harden positions that some may have taken that you know nothing about, cause more embarrassment, and make things worse rather than better. Do you really want this position that badly? Clearly something is wrong with the way this was handled, but look out what you ask for because you might get it. When the dust is settled you might consider a private conversation with the council executive, not to nurse a grudge or assuage your own feelings, but to let that person know how the DE screwed up.

le Voyageur's suggestions are all good ones. I am familiar with two of the sites he suggests. You might also consider Yosemite. Our troop is going there in February to camp on the valley floor.

I grew up in a time and place where there were huge quantities of army surplus gear available, and often that was all that was available. We used the old fashioned pup tents and dug ditches to keep the water out too. While it is fun to reminisce, gear is more widely available and better today and we camp differently. The specific subject of this thread is more of a uniforming question than a broader gear question. If there is a piece of military gear that does the job, go ahead and use it.

Go for it!

If all the boys want is a game club, then that is not scouting. If doing something like this is a recruiting hook to get boys interested in the larger program, I have no problem with it.