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I like Bob White's suggestion. However, I too feel that this cannot be left alone. Presumably you have some acquaintance with the other key leaders in the unit, the CC and CO rep. I would discuss the incident privately with them at first. They could be vital allies. The objective is not to remove, but to reform. A serious conversation with the cubmaster in which these other key volunteers participate should be sufficient. The offending cubmaster should be directly asked for specific complaints he may still have about camp. The results of the evaluations, not all the details, should be shared with him. Bottom line, he needs to be encouraged to shape up and keep his mouth shut. As mother rabbit said, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." (Maybe that is the wrong advice but I couldn't resist.) He needs to be encouraged to use the proper forums to express specific complaints that he thinks are important, but the female component is too critical to the overall success of the program to allow his conduct to continue.

The relevant health history is on the back of the youth application form. It is actually a Class I medical form that qualifies youth to participate in activities of less than 72 hours duration, or that do not otherwise require the more extensive Class I or Class III forms. You have to be careful to unfold the form before you fill out this portion, otherwise you make unwanted carbon copies of your entries. I believe that this health history is on the part of the form retained by the troop.

None of your choices are any good. The best route for the rest of the boys is probably to hold a new election for the balance of the term.

While the formality is for the CO rep to recommend the CC, I think it most situations it is a matter of consensus among the active adults. I have never seen an election held, although I don't think there is anything in the rules that would prevent one. CCs have to be selected or recruited, just as SMs have to be selected or recruited. In a lot of situations the CO rep is barely sentient and doesn't participate in the process.

I first heard the expression used when I was a scout in Missouri decades ago. In the scouting context it usually means a late evening snack spread, often the last event of the day. These are primarily for adults and take place at training events and similar gatherings. Never heard of the restaurant chain. Are the restaurants any good?

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They do Kabuki in Korea?

I understand, agree with, and enforce the ban on alcoholic beverages at scouting events. Does the official ban extend to adult only events such as recognition dinners?

Well said.

A natural disaster certainly would form the basis for an appeal. There are a lot of details missing from your original post but, it seems to me that you advised the boy properly. The matter is out of your hands. He needs to talk to people further up the line.

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I agree with BW. While G2SS rules out paint ball, for good reason I might add, G2SS would not appear to rule out laser tag. Some people in the leadership of a unit may question the worthiness of laser tag as an appopriate scouting activity, but there does not appear to be a blanket prohibition.

Good points kwc57. I suspect we are talking about a very few boys here. However, as joining ages get pushed every younger, these situations are more likely to occur. A word about civility. Nobody doubts the good faith and interest in safety of anybody who has chimed in on this thread. I have found the viewpoint of the two qualified aquatics directors particularly interesting since these are people we do not hear from very often. Be all that as it may, everybody should lighten up. You'd think we were rehashing the gay issue in post no 21,427.

Thanx to both of you. Not exactly the answer I was hoping for, but I am not surprised. By the by Laura, I write off my expenditures for publications as a charitable donation. These are expenses I would not incur if I were not in a volunteer position and non reimbursed expenses are deductible.

BW, Is there a single publication or source that describes all the adult awards, the requirements for them, the organizational levels at which they are awarded, and the procedures or process for making such awards? I figure if anybody knows this you would.

Actually I believe that YoungBlood did say that he had observed boys panic when they lost their nose clips. He did not give any details or say how often he had observed this. I am not sure how many observations are necessary. If I were responsible for the safe operation of a swimming program, one such incident would be enough to convince me that limitations on the activities of boys reliant on nose clips would be warranted.

Way to go.

First of all I would observe that not all the knots are square knots. Be that as it may, I wonder if it would distract from the boys' achievements to devote a few minutes of each court of honor to recognize the adult achievements. Any thoughts on this?

Question for Bob White Who is responsible for monitoring, recording and verifying the progress and contributions of adult leaders that may qualify them for one or more awards?

The complete text from G2SS about the swim test is below: _________________ Swimmer Test The swimmer test demonstrates the minimum level of swimming ability required for safe deep-water swimming. The various components of the test evaluate the several skills essential to this minimum level of swimming ability: Jump feetfirst into water over the head in depth, level off, and begin swimming. Swim 75 yards in a strong manner using one or more of the following strokes: sidestroke, breaststroke, trudgen, or crawl; then swim 25 yards using an easy, resting backstroke. The 100 yards must be completed in one swim without stops and must include at least one sharp turn. After completing the swim, rest by floating. The test administrator must objectively evaluate the individual performance of the test, and in so doing should keep in mind the purpose of each test element. "Jump feetfirst into water over the head in depth, level off, and begin swimming. . . ." The swimmer must be able to make an abrupt entry into deep water and begin swimming without any aids. Walking in from shallow water, easing in from the edge or down a ladder, pushing off from side or bottom, or gaining forward momentum by diving do not satisfy this requirement. ". . . Swim 75 yards in a strong manner using one or more of the following strokes: sidestroke, breaststroke, trudgen, or crawl; . . ." The swimmer must be able to cover distance with a strong, confident stroke. The 75 yards must not be the outer limit of the swimmer's ability; completion of the distance should give evidence of sufficient stamina to avoid undue risks. Dog-paddling and strokes repeatedly interrupted and restarted are not sufficient; underwater swimming is not permitted. The itemized strokes are inclusive. Any strong side or breaststroke or any strong overarm stroke (including the back crawl) is acceptable. ". . . swim 25 yards using an easy, resting backstroke . . ." The swimmer must indicate the ability to execute a restful, free-breathing backstroke that can be used to avoid exhaustion during swimming activity. This element of the test necessarily follows the more strenuous swimming activity to show that the swimmer is, in fact, able to use the backstroke as a relief from exertion. The change of stroke must be accomplished in deep water without any push-off or other aid. Any variation of the elementary may suffice if it clearly provides opportunity for the swimmer to rest and regain wind. ". . . The 100 yards must be swum continuously and include at least one sharp turn. . . ." The total distance is to be covered without rest stops. The sharp turn simply demonstrates the swimmer's ability to reverse direction in deep water without assistance or push-off from side or bottom. ". . . After completing the swim, rest by floating." This critically important component of the test evaluates the swimmer's ability to maintain in the water indefinitely even though exhausted or otherwise unable to continue swimming. Treading water or swimming in place will further tire the swimmer and are therefore unacceptable. The duration of the float test is not significant, except that it must be long enough for the test administrator to determine that the swimmer is, in fact, resting and could likely continue to do so for a prolonged time. The drownproofing technique may be sufficient if clearly restful, but it is not preferred. If the test is completed except for the floating requirement, the swimmer may be retested on the floating only (after instruction) provided that the test administrator is confident that the swimmer can initiate the float when exhausted. ______________ The G2SS provides interpretation beyond the simple statement of the test. This is where the language, "without any aids" appears. The basic statement of the test does not make this point and that is all that is cited in the rank requirement. Once again the written word sows confusion rather than clarity.

I was a co instructor last fall for the Troop Committee Challenge. It was taught at the district level. It was a small group from different units and they universally felt that it was worthwhile. It can easily be taught at your troop committee level if you have someone who is familiar with the material. It is worth the effort. As an instructor I learn something every time I get in front of a group.

As an aside, did you notice that this was published on line by the Stars & Stripes? Those of you who served in the armed forces outside the US will recognize this. If I am not mistaken, the very first Stars & Stripes was created for the soldiers serving in the Union Army in the civil war. A bit of hsitoric trivia for your next cocktail party.

BSA used to have more regions than it has now. Growing up in Missouri, we were in the Great Central West Region. This region even had a song, sung to the melody of My Wild Irish Rose. I remember being taught this song by the great Roe Bartle at an OA gathering. I wonder why these regions went away. Why do we have regions at all? What do they do for us? Just reminiscing a bit...

YoungBlood, SagerScout, and JPS all make the same point. Swimming, while a rank requirement, is also an important survival skill. How many people have died needlessly because they didn't know how to swim? I learned to swim at a young age, and we always enrolled our children in swimming classes at the earliest available opportunity. I also like the idea of having scouts going into the water wearing PFDs as a training exercise so they understand the fit, etc. Getting boys to be able to swim to survive means getting them away from goggles and nose clips sooner rather than later.

As with most threads, we digress.... However, it is an interesting point that the safe swim defense guidelines say nothing about being reasonably sure that the water is safe. You are supposed to check the water for obstructions, but I don't think the guidelines say anything about the quality of the water per se. I would not expect leaders to carry around testing equipment that they wouldn't know how to use anyway, but leaders should inform themselves about water conditions before they go on outings where swimming may occur. I know this is what I have done. But the fact that checking with local authorities or other knowledgeable sources is not included in the guidelines is serious oversight. Hey BW, call up your buddies at national and suggest these guidelines be modified.