eisely

1 Hour As a native born american, my words can be but a pale reflection of what you say. Having never experienced neither real privation nor oppression, but having observed it, I can understand intellectually what it means for people to struggle to come here and get their citizenship, but I can never understand the depth of feeling. There is plenty of room for honest disagreement about the wisdom of going to war with the Saddam Hussein regime at this time (I happen to favor the policy), but I get really angry at the arrogance, willful ignorance, and narcissism of many of the protestors. They do not care one whit about the suffering of the Iraqi people under this evil regime that is about to pass forever from the scene. Bill Bennett expounded a wonderful argument when he would confront debaters in the 1980's who saw the Soviet Union and the United States as moral equivalents. He would pose what he called the "fence test". He would point out that the United States built fences to keep people out, while the then communist countries in Europe built fences to keep people in. Haters of the United States could never come up with an explanation for that. May I ask from where you came to the United States?

This has little to do directly with scouting, other than shared ideals. This is from the Wall Street Journal on line service. You will be moved. America remains a shining city on a hill if we care to see it. _____________________________________________ Jos Antonio Gutierrez He was an American hero. Now he's an American. BY BRENDAN MINITER Friday, April 4, 2003 12:01 a.m. EST One of the first U.S. soldiers to die in Iraq was not an American citizen. He'd come here illegally as a teenager. His name was Jos Antonio Gutierrez. He was killed on March 21 by enemy fire while trying to secure Umm Qasr, a port vital for humanitarian aid. He was a 22-year-old lance corporal in the U.S. Marine Corps. It's easy to discount talk of the American dream as hyperbole, a clich carelessly tossed about. But then there are people like Gutierrez, whose whole life proved that the naysayers were wrong. It is possible to escape the oppression of your circumstances. It's no coincidence that he joined the Marines, whose motto is "semper fidelis." Gutierrez remained always faithful to the dream that inspires the best within us. And for this he is an American hero. Gutierrez was born in Guatemala, but he told his American foster family only an outline of his life there. It's easy to see the pain in the omitted text. His mother died when he was three. Five years later his father was dead. He left school to work a series of odd jobs to buy food for himself and his sister, Engracia. He learned about the U.S. from an American aid worker at a shelter. Then "the mentor left," explains Lillian Cardenas--one of his foster sisters--so Gutierrez decided to head for America by stowing away on freight trains. He got stuck in Mexico for a couple of years, crossing into California when he was 14. He was determined to see Los Angeles. Somehow he ended up in Hollywood. He slept on park benches and got food from a shelter. An alert social worker enrolled him in a program that helped him gain legal residency and placed him with a foster family. The first placement didn't work out. Neither did the second or the third. Finally in 2000, he came to live with Nora and Marcelo Mosquera (themselves immigrants from Costa Rica and Ecuador). The Mosqueras have three "biological" children, but have cared for more than two dozen foster children over the years, some of whom they've adopted. They never adopted Gutierrez, but on Mother's Day last year he wrote home and "formally" asked if he could call them mom and dad. He never forgot Engracia, often calling or sending her money. But he reached new heights with the Mosqueras. They pressured him to learn English (in frustration he'd say he just wanted to learn enough "to get by"). He had a strong faith in God and would urge his siblings to go to church--they were all Catholic. He was a private person, but would jokingly tell the family that someday "people will know my name." After high school he was recruited to play soccer for nearby Harbor College. There he began studying architecture. Gutierrez loved America and talked about giving something back by enlisting in the Army. A few months after Sept. 11, he surprised everyone by announcing he'd joined the Marines. The Army recruiter just wasn't as convincing, he told them. After he graduated from Parris Island in March 2002, the Marines became another family for him. "You always had to take the big car when you picked up Jos," Mrs. Cardenas recalls. "I have a little Acura, and once drove it the 90 minutes to Camp Pendleton to pick him up," she said chuckling. He was waiting there with five buddies. "Honestly, I have to tell you that you're not all going to fit." Sometimes he'd show up for dinner with as many as 30 Marines. "There were Marines everywhere," she said, but they were all welcome. "Whenever you'd have him around, you didn't have a worry in the world." He knew the danger that awaited him in the Gulf. Before leaving, he asked his foster family to take care of Engracia. "You're her family now," he said. But Mrs. Cardenas also remembers why he was willing to go to war. "From what I've seen," Saddam has to be confronted, he told them. "It's my job. It's also my duty." Gutierrez, along with Jos Angel Garibay--a Marine killed on March 23 battling for Nasiriyah--has now been awarded citizenship posthumously. Mr. Miniter is assistant editor of OpinionJournal.com.

These are not unusual problems. If my recollection is correct, First Class rank is a Philmont requirement. Philmont also places a limit on the number of adults who can be on a crew, although this limit has varied over the years. If you have not exceeded the adult limit and still have slots for boys, there is nothing wrong with opening up the slot or slots to boys from other units in your community. I would discuss this with the boys in the crew before I did this. You can also simply take a crew that is less than twelve people. I don't know how this may affect your transportation arrangements and pricing. Last summer I went with a council contingent of four crews. Two of these crews did not include the full twelve people. Our crew had only eleven. I don't think Philmont will charge you for twelve people if you are short one or two people. You need to talk to Philmont about this, but I think they charge a flat fee per participant regardless of the number of people in the crew.

The following email was circulated by our council today to all scouters on its mailing list. Does anybody else know anything about this? _________________________________ Scouting in Support of America Call to Action March 2003 Roy L. Williams, the Chief Scout Executive of the Boy Scouts of America, has asked Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venturers, and volunteer leaders across America to tie red, white, and blue ribbons on trees in their neighborhoods. "Our thoughts are with our fellow Americans fighting for peace in the Middle East, and we pray for their safe return," Williams says. Throughout the decades, the Boy Scouts of America has rallied to the support of our nation's military and their families. In countless conflicts, Scouts have stood shoulder to shoulder in supporting the brave men and women who protect our nation. In this current conflict, Scouts, volunteers, and families will carry on this great tradition. We encourage all citizens to show their support of America by joining us in tying red, white, and blue ribbons on trees in neighborhoods across the country. If you know someone in the armed services, you may honor him or her by writing their name on the ribbons. PDF Format: http://www.scouting.org/media/rwb/SiSoA.pdf Press Release: http://www.scouting.org/media/press/030324/index.html

Money-Filled Soup Can Returned To Owner Wed Mar 12, 1:30 PM ET Add Local - KCRA TheKCRAChannel.com to My Yahoo! A Sacramento man has been reunited with a soup can filled with his life savings that was accidentally donated to the Boy Scouts. Over the weekend, Nicholas Madrigal donated soup cans to the Boy Scouts, who were collecting for a food drive. What Nicholas didn't know was that inside one of the cans was over $2,000 his father, Julian Madrigal, had been saving for years as a limo driver. But after hearing about the mistake, the Scout's gave the can filled with money back to its rightful owner after a long search. "It was a good deed, and it came full circle. And I feel so rewarded that we have these type of people in this country," Julian Madrigal said. In exchange for the return, Julian Madrigal is offering to take the person who found the can on a three-hour excursion in one of his limousines.

As an American and a veteran I worry most about American troops. Let us hope this is really as quick and bloodless as everybody expects, for our sakes, the sake of our allies, and the sake of the Iraqi people.

I think the answer to your question can be found in G2SS.

I too have a wool jacket and a box full of patches representing things I have done. I will continue to comply with the rules, and the only elective patch on my wool jacket is a large patch for the 1957 jamboree. One of the most ridiculous examples I saw as a scout was an adult leader at the OA conference in Lawrence, Kansas in 1958 who had every square inch of his uniform covered with patches, including his trousers. I am sympathetic with the desire to take pride in accomplishments and to display symbols of those accomplishments, but this bad example has stuck with me all these years. Kids do remember bad examples as well as good examples.

As BW said, your CO should be able and willing to come up with the necessary information. BSA troops are not separate legal entities. Banks need a taxpayer ID number to put on the account. Your CO should have such a number already. Since they "own" the troop and all its assets, logically their number should be on the account. Somebody may suggest just using some leader's social security number. Do not do this. Use a proper ID other than a social security number of an individual. Also, when you set up the account, specify dual signature control as suggested. Have at least three signatures on the signature card.

I froze my little touche on my first scout camping trip too!! What a coincidence.

I remember the spats from my days as an explorer scout. I never did figure out what purpose they were supposed to serve. My dad had to show me how to put them on.

I am not a neatnik, but I don't keep scout stuff in my car. Don't ask about the garage, office, attic, closet, etc. etc.

Ed, The written word is infallible. You just have to be sure you are looking at the correct words.

If your council is accepting and processing adult applications for ASM positions for people between 18 and 21, I suggest that is evidence that the Scoutmaster Handbook is wrong.

Once again the written word is inconsistent and misleading. Shocking!!!

I have always understood that ASM is the only position someone between 18 and 21 can register for.

Responding on the very narrow point that there is a REQUIREMENT to provide interpreters.... The first reference to this was in the context of a school situation. I presume that this was a public school. In my most recent post I acknowledged that this would likely be a requirement for a public school. That is not the same thing for either an employer, an ordinary business dealing with the public, or boy scouts. I doubt very much that ADA requires interpreters in all situations. The thought that LauraT7 brings up about treating this as a learning opportunity also occurred to me. There are many potential solutions to this situation. It is not obvious that guaranteeing the presence of a highly trained interpreter is the only, or necessarily the best, solution. In a different thread some time back I related a bit about an experience I had as a teenager on staff at summer camp in Missouri when an entire troop of deaf boys came to camp. We did not have interpreters, but everybody did just fine. The deaf scouts profited from the experience and so did everybody else, self included.

Ozemu, What is the link to your website? Any pictures there?

Many councils have designated volunteers or paid staff who coordinate international cooperation efforts. I suggest starting with your district executive to see if your council has any such programs. The persons in charge of that effort should be able to help you.

I concur with Bob White, although I am not an attorney. ADA applies to employment and public accomodations. Further I doubt that any entity subject to the law would be required to provide paid interpreters as an accomodation, other than possibly public schools K through 12. I don't think BSA is legally required to do anything. Having said that, BSA should try harder. There have got to be alternatives that can be provided in the situation described. It occurs to me that there may be safety concerns regarding these two boys that may come into play. It might make sense to try to pair the boys up with other scouts from the troop in their merit badge classes and other activities to ensure buddy coverage.

No, we're not. A snipe hunt is hazing. A skit can be hazing, although I have no objection to the skit originally described.

Always good to hear from you ozemu. We have profited too from your commentary. And thanx to a real ally that has learned the pain of terrorism the hard way.

Not wishing to come across as too sarcastic, it behooves you to find out who the chartered org rep is and talk to that person. They may be very proactive, or totally unaware of their duties. You may have to guide them. Ultimately they do have to sign off on the CC, even if they do not participate in the selection process directly. Oh yes...welcome to the forum.

I have seen similar skits. I don't see this one as out of line.

One further thought, any public comments about his comments will likely make matters only worse. Under the best of circumstances he may be motivated to make a public apology, but I don't see that as a necessary part of the exercise.