eisely

How's about them apples? Learn something new every day. As I roll the melody through my head it is indeed the same as the passage from 1812 Overture. Two questions: What has God Save the Czar got to do with native american lore and a BSA honor society? Why couldn't the founders have picked something easier to sing? Most times this is sung, people make a horrible hash out of it.

This is good. I am going to use it. Thanx.

Sounds like a big job in an unusual situation. Way to go.

I am not an attorney, but I have always understood that the truth is a defense against a defamation claim. Even though you may possess and speak or write the truth, it does not mean that the other party won't come after you. I repeat my advice - don't do anything proactive to inform others of this situation without getting some guidance from an attorney first.

FOG is correct. You can use a Class III for any purpose that requires either a Class I or Class II.

You are absolutely right about the Class I. I am so used to dealing with just Class III it did not occur to me to look at the form itself. Next question: Is our troop in compliance? I don't think so.

An interesting question has arisen regarding medical forms for adults. As far as I know, Class I medical forms apply only to youth. Only Class II or Class III forms are used for adults, and then only in certain situations. Consequently, one ends up with adults participating in various activities just as adults, not necessarily registered scouter volunteers, about whom one knows very little. These are weekend events and day hikes which are covered by Class I forms for boys. Unless one happens to have a Class II or Class III available for a particular adult, you may end up with a lot people on an event for whom you have no information whatsoever. I don't think this creates any special liability for scouters, units, councils, or BSA in general. Presumably adults who are legally of age are responsible for their own situations. However, if for example, you have someone along on a car camping event that meets all the criteria for Class I, and that adult somoeone is an insulin dependent diabetic, wouldn't it be to everybody's benefit for the adults in charge to know this piece of information? Has anybody ever had to confront this kind of problem in an emergency? Does anybody have a different rule or procedure for collecting at least minimal information on adults? Are units legally restricted in gathering health information on adults? Inquiring minds want to know.

Unless you are interested in incurring personal liabilities for defamation, I would do nothing without consulting an attorney. Do you have a "Megan's Law" in your state? This is a law that requires the dissemination of information regarding convicted sex offenders of all kinds. Perhaps this would apply to your situation.

These are all good suggestions. You can also purchase hard bound versions of the handbook. I found the extra bucks to be a sound investment.

Nobody will ever accuse Mel Brooks of exhibiting good taste. Ever. He is funny and entertaining, but you can always count on him reaching for the lowest kind of humor. As far as Schwarzenegger goes...what they used to say about Jesse Ventura is true once again. My governor can beat up your governor. I wonder who else from the cast of the first Predator movie will run for governor somewhere.

Trying to address the original question, my understanding of BSA policy about storage of forms is the same as BW's. Namely, BSA national offers no real rules. Clearly common sense indicates that any medical information is highly confidential and should be made available to adult leaders, medical personnel, and possibly even other scouts, on a need to know basis. Many troops do keep these in a central file, and frankly I think that is a highly effective way of doing business. This is where I part company with BW on this issue. Having current medical forms in a central file saves no end of headaches and ensures that the information is available before any outing begins. Out council high adventure team recommends that two copies of all forms, carried separately by two different adults, be taken along on all treks. I always put the forms in a zip lock bag for a trek. At the end of the trek, if the forms I have been carrying are duplicates, I often destroy them, or return them to the parents. Our troop does not have a central file, and consequently dealing with these things is often more of a headache than it should be. I also disagree strongly with BW's view on whether or not leaders should review the content of the forms. I have always understood that to be part of my responsibility as a trek leader. I want to know what is going on with the people on my trek. I also brief the other adult on the trek who may be carrying a set of forms if there are issues with any participant. I do not look at the forms out of idle curiousity, but because I believe that I have a genuine need to know, so I can more responsibly perform my duties as an adult leader. I do not want to get caught in the kind of situation described in an early post in this thread where important information was withheld by the parents of a boy, or I did not make sensible use of the information that was provided to me.

Anybody who has seen any news tonight, or first thing in the morning, knows that Arnold Schwarzenegger won the election big time, apparently getting an absolute majority of the votes. I certainly did not expect that strong an outcome, and I wish him well. We desparately need some leadership in this state. Maybe he will be able to give us what we need. It was really wierd, watching him give his acceptance speech surrounded by Kennedys!

Ann Coulter is quite a bit over the top these days, and I would not have invited her as a speaker, even though she has some great insights and is very entertaining. Ollie North is a more complex case. Technically he is not a felon since his convictions were overturned on appeal. Whether he did more harm than good while in the Reagan White House, I will leave others to debate. There is one lesser known story about him that bears repeating. When he was a very junior officer in the Marines, and had completed a tour in Viet Nam, he learned that one of the sergeants who had served under him was being court martialed in Viet Nam over something. I forget the charges, but they were very serious. Against the advice of his superiors he managed to travel to Viet Name at his own expense and helped this sergeant win an acquittal. How many careerists in any organization would exhibit that sort of loyalty to a subordinate? I was not in the marines, but there are many layers of meaning to Semper Fi.

I think these boys did well, and did honor to themselves and the ideals of scouting. It is very unusual for adolescents to call one another on this sort of thing, and it probably has more impact than if adults do it. If, as adults, we silently condone this sort of humor, we are teaching the wrong lessons by our omissions.

The Man of Steele has given the answer regarding BSA National policy of unit size. There aren't any such policies. May I make another suggestion. This works well particularly with regard to Webelos. When we, as a family were active in cubs, no single parent volunteer wanted to assume responsibility for the den. We had a meeting within the den and set a calendar whereby specific parents assumed responsibility for den meetings for specific months for specific activities. This worked well since it was easy to identify specific months with specific activitities for attaining the Webelos badge and the AOL. At the pack level, we agreed that there had to be a designated leader and that leader also agreed to attend all the pack committee meetings to provide coordination at that level. But sharing the burden within the den worked well for us. Needless to say, everyone had to understand YP requirements, etc. Just a suggestion.

My memories of cub scouting as a youth are, needless to say, quite vague. I always thought the word Akela referred to the cubmaster specifically. I do not recall ever hearing of the legend recounted by BW, but it certainly provides an alternative explanation of the source of the word Akela.

Arrowheads are still the official recognition and are presented to crews with great ceremony at the closing campfire (which takes place nightly). Bull patches are still purchased at the trading post.

Useful information. Thanx.

Having never attempted to clean a hat like that, I would probably take a soft vegetable brush and a little Woolite and cold (possibly luke warm) water to it.

Probably the most egregious incident of underage youth, in this case girls, on an outing of which I am aware took place several years ago with our troop in Southern California. That troop almost always did a major outing over spring break. I did not go that year, but my oldest son, then a pretty new scout himself, participated. The outing was a canoe trip on the Colorado below Hoover Dam, going downstream about 25 miles. There was a shortage of adult participants. The adult leader in charge was experienced and capable. The dad who agreed to go to make up the necessary adult headcount, showed up on the morning of departure with his little daughter, about age 8 or 10, and her little friend, fully expecting them to participate. The adult in charge acquiesced in this because otherwise there would have been no outing. Most of the time one encounters a great deal of headwind on that route that time of year. These girls could not handle it and were clear liabilities to the outing. Everybody finished, but there were a lot of complaints. If I had been in charge I simply would have canceled the outing, rather than take two extra non scout kids along on an event I knew they would not be able to handle. But then, that's me...

Out here in California the big schtick is earthquake kits. I don't think PFDs would be included in that. However, what should be included are... Sanitary supplies for females and babies in the househould, More water, Pet food for pets in the household, and still more water. Keep the fuel tank in your car at least half full at all times. Did I mention water? Keep extra shoes, preferably sneakers. Earthquakes happen at night and you may have to walk through serious debris. Keep a pair of shoes by your bed at night for the same reason. Keep on hand spare batteries and bulbs for flashlights. A portable radio. You can get radios these days with a built in hand crank generator that charges an internal battery enough for several hours of operation. I generally look at my camping gear as part of my earthquake kit. In this regard fuel for lanterns and stoves can come in handy. By the by...there is an emergency preparedness merit badge. Making sure the families in your troop are appropriately prepared for what is likely to happen in your area is a great troop activity, and snags a merit badge.

Korea Scouter (or should that now be Hawaii Scouter?) I share your concerns about the tour permit question I have raised with regards to OA events. Presumably all the G2SS rules apply to OA events as to other scouting events. In particular I would presume that YP guidelines also apply. One of the difficulties with the tour permit for OA events lies with the form itself. The form is designed for unit level use. Who signs the approval on behalf of the "committee". There is probably no way a responsible OA adult member can begin to know who is driving since participants are coming from all directions at different times to the same destination. Keeping in mind that the whole idea behind the tour permit is risk management at the council level, maybe the risks associated with OA events are deemed to be so low that nobody is concerned. I do note that our lodge (properly so) is now requesting much more comprehensive medical information from participants on the registrations forms we use. That is certainly a good thing. Not wishing to seem sarcastic, but where is Bob White when you really need, and would appreciate his expertise?

BW's information is helpful, but still does not provide a definitive answer. It is certainly correct that there are usually more than two adults present at any OA activity. Are tour permits required for an OA event? I don't think our lodge files tour permits. I have been the adult nominally in charge at two events and tour permits were not on the checklists I was following and I did not get any. While both the youth and the adults are supposed to be more mature and responsible, one would think that a tour permit would be a logical requirement. If tour permits were required, then you would have to have two real names. Still not sure....

At a minimum it is fair to say that the SM has mishandled this situation, and apparently is continuing to make things worse for this lad, rather than better. Regarding Philmont per se, I fail to see the big issue here. Lacking clear communication, in my mind there was no "contract." This boy probably really wants to go, given his brother's prior participation. This suggests several courses of action. Somebody, not the SM, ought to contact the now divorced parents and see if there is a willingness to finance this. The emotional stakes could be very high for this boy. This may be something he really needs. Has anybody thought about that? If the boy clearly is not going to go, substitutes can be found. Further, the troop really is not on the hook for the full cost of Philmont, only what has been paid so far. If you have less than a full crew, you ultimately pay for only those who actually go, although the earnest money for a full crew stays with Philmont. Somebody correct me on this if I am wrong. It clearly is wrong of the SM to publicly humiliate this young man. The troop cannot hold him financially responsible for the advances on his account under these circumstances.

What is the target audience of your troop handbook? Is the youth members or the parents, or both? Suggested topics: Schedule of elections for youth leaders. Job descriptions and expectations for youth leaders. Information about scout accounts held by the unit treasurer, if your unit maintains such accounts. Information about financial polices; dues amounts, when dues are paid, what dues cover and what they don't cover. Information about a unit uniform exchange if your unit does this. Unit policies about equipment; sign out procedure, maintenance of inventory, policies on equipment return to the quartermaster. Information on training opportunities and schedules for both adult and youth leaders. Just a few thoughts.