eisely

Nine years as a youth, including cubs, scouts, and explorers. Fifteen years as an adult volunteer.

The troop we were affiliated with several years ago in Southern California adopted a procedure for an informal review of the Eagle candidate's project proposal. This was before anything was written down on the form. The scout came in and orally described his project and the various steps he planned to take. Most of the time the scout had sketches of the work to be done if there was some kind of construction involved. This enabled the adults to make suggestions and ask questions. Inevitably there were things that the scout had not considered. This made for better projects, approvals accomplished more smoothly, and time saved for everyone. This review does not have to be accomplished at any level above the unit to be effective. This was not a substitute for formal reviews accomplished later on, but was an attempt to assist the scout when such assistance was most effective.

I would suggest writing up the description separately before you sit down to fill out the form. Show all the involved approvers the writeup and get verbal agreement before you commit anything to the form. Be sure to get all the signatures before you start work. I saw one scout rejected at his Eagle board because the district advancement chair refused to sign the form after he had done the work. The council subsequently over ruled that individual and the youth received his eagle.

Several years ago in a galaxy far far away, I assumed the CC's role for a troop and immediately had to deal with rechartering. That troop too was carrying several adults on the roster who were no longer active. I just called them up and asked them if they intended to participate and solicited the registration fee if they wanted to stay on the rolls. Most graciously declined and appreciated the call. They did not want to be financial burdens to the troop. Real simple.

There may be strange people in Austin, but I think San Francisco can claim the title for the mostest and strangest.

Residing in one of the most PC states in the union, sometimes referred to as the left coast, I get rather jaded about United Way. It really hurts in areas where scouting is more dependent on United Way. We seem to be doing very well without them.

NJCubScouter is correct. You cannot be registered at the unit level without having a position specified on your application form. Concerning committee approval of tour permits and outings. In my mind, outings are approved when the annual calendar is established. Other outings can be added, but the committee should still approve. Signing the tour permit is essentially a confirming act. The fact that BSA includes a space for a committee signature on the tour permit form suggests that BSA takes the committee role seriously.

All of the statments about ASM's and the SM not being members of the committee are correct. BSA seems to envision the committee as performing two functions; (1) supporting the program and (2) providing oversight of the program as delivered by the SM and the ASMs. Most committees operate by consensus and do not take formal votes. However, situations may arise where there is strong disagreement and votes are necessary. This is where it becomes critical to understand who votes and who does not. I would not exclude ASMs from committee meetings. Their views are important and valuable. I cannot imagine a way to turn off people faster than excluding them from a meeting. As an ASM, if I was told that I could not attend and participate in a committee meeting, I would find something else to do.

United Way Capital Area to stop funding Boy Scouts 76-year partnership ends over Scouts exclusion of gays By Andrea Ball AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF Thursday, November 13, 2003 After a 76-year partnership, the United Way Capital Area and the Boy Scouts are parting ways because the Scouts organization excludes gays. "Our value is that we raise money from the entire community," said Clarke Heidrick, chairman of the United Way board. "We need to allocate the money to agencies that serve the entire community." Boy Scouts of America, Capital Area Council, will lose approximately $157,000 a year, a little more than 5 percent of its $2.9 million budget. The group will ask its supporters to make up that loss with additional contributions, said Bruce Walcutt, the organization's president. "Frankly, the Boy Scouts are a resourceful bunch," he said. "That's what we're taught to be. We'll continue to keep our programs alive." Under the terms of an agreement unanimously approved Wednesday by the United Way board, the Scouts will remain a partner agency until June 30, 2004 and will receive about $157,000. Then -- although it will no longer be affiliated with the United Way -- the group will receive another $157,000 for 2005 as transition funding, Heidrick said. Then funding will stop. Both sides say the split is amicable. The Boy Scouts have been a United Way Capital Area partner since 1927. "The Scouts have conducted themselves very honorably during this process," Heidrick said. Wednesday's decision comes after more than two years of discussion. In June 2000, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Boy Scouts have the right to exclude gays. That decision spurred more than 50 local United Ways to change their relationship with the Scouts. Some immediately cut ties with the group. Some phased out funding. Others started working with Learning for Life, a Boy Scout-affiliated organization that allows gays to participate in its programs. Many have remained firm supporters of the Scouts, which provides educational programs focused on character, citizenship and personal fitness. United Way of America, the parent organization to the 1,400 affiliates across the country, did not take a position on the issue. "We're convinced that's a decision that needs to be made on the local level," said Philip Jones, spokesman for the United Way of America. After the 2000 court ruling, United Way Capital Area -- which raises money for 44 health and human service organizations -- scrutinized requirements for its agencies. In March 2002, the board adopted an inclusion policy requiring all partner agencies to serve people without regard to issues such as race, color, gender or sexual orientation. Of the 44 groups, 43 were in compliance with the policy. But the Boy Scouts organization was in violation because it does not accept "avowed homosexuals," according to the Scout's literature. United Way and Boy Scouts officials met several times, then agreed to a friendly divorce. Donors -- who can use the United Way to donate to any 501©(3) nonprofit registered with the IRS -- will still be able to give to the Scouts through their workplace campaigns. But the Scouts will not be entitled to money raised through the United Way's community investment fund, which totaled $4.1 million last year. The Scouts received about $157,000 from that fund in 2002. "It's a big deal," Walcutt said. "We have a lot of supporters in Central Texas and we're going to ask them to do more." Randall Ellis, executive director of the Lesbian/Gay Rights Lobby of Texas, called the split a "bold step" for the United Way. "It will go a long way to fostering tolerance and acceptance in Central Texas," he said. Others say the United Way's decision smacks of political pressure that will hurt families. "I think what it says about the United Way is that they are easily intimidated by a very politically active homosexual lobby that pushes a homosexual agenda," said Cathie Adams, president of the Texas Eagle Forum, a Dallas-based conservative group. "It's a travesty." Heidrick said the United Way did not receive pressure to cut ties with the Boy Scouts. The group cannot determine whether it has lost donations because of its affiliation with the Scouts, he said. The Boy Scouts will remain a partner agency of the Georgetown Area United Way and the United Way of Hays County.

I always felt that one of the biggest mistakes that the anti war movement made during the Viet Nam era was to stigmatize and abuse returning veterans. It appears that some still have not learned that lesson.

Sebastopol is a town North of San Francisco in Sonoma County. To say that it is liberal in outlook greatly understates the case. This is a town that declared itself a "nuclear free zone" many years, and the official signs welcoming you to the town on the road make this point. Be all that as it may, this story describes a petty action by persons unknown to intentionally degrade the observation of veterans' day. ______________________ Sebastopol vandalism may be war protest Nearly 200 flag holes filled with concrete before Veterans Day November 11, 2003 By DEREK J. MOORE THE PRESS DEMOCRAT In what may be an unusual war protest, Sebastopol police say almost 200 holes along city sidewalks were plugged with concrete in an apparent effort to keep Boy Scouts from flying American flags today in honor of Veterans Day. The vandalism in the heart of downtown forced city workers to spend several hours Monday drilling out the concrete in time for today's festivities. Police said they have no motive or suspects in the crime, but they speculated that because of the timing of the vandalism, it was done in protest of U.S. military operations in Iraq. City officials were stumped by the vandalism, first reported Monday by a pedestrian. "It's pretty odd, but it's so fresh it looks like it was done during the night last night," Rich Emig, Sebastopol's public works superintendent, said Monday. On certain holidays, including Martin Luther King Day and the Fourth of July, the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts fan out early in the morning to erect the flags and then take them down at the end of the day. "Whoever did it doesn't understand that it's 12-year-old kids putting the flags up," said Jim Lehman, Scoutmaster for Sebastopol's Troop 14. "They don't have an agenda." The area of the vandalism -- on Main Street downtown and along Highway 12 between High Street and Petaluma Avenue -- has been the site of frequent anti-war protests for months. But a spokeswoman for an anti-war group, Women In Black, denounced the vandalism, saying it goes against the group's nonviolent views. The group holds silent vigil protests in the city weekly. "We respect anyone that would want to fly the flag," said Sylvia Melrose of Sebastopol. "And we certainly wouldn't support anyone who would do something like this." Gary Medvigy, a Sonoma County deputy district attorney who was called to active duty last spring as an Army colonel, also expressed outrage. "If this was a political statement, it certainly struck a chord. I've got guys over there who are wounded," said Medvigy, who is temporarily back home in Sebastopol after a six-month tour of duty at the U.S. Central Command headquarters in Qatar, on the Persian Gulf. Police and city officials said the vandalism was thought out because whoever did it apparently lugged around concrete mix, painstakingly pouring some into 90 percent of the 200 flag holes. The vandal or vandals apparently moved quickly because the work was not neatly done. Emig said the vandalism was the first he could remember since the flag holders were drilled almost 40 years ago. The city dispatched four workers, three trucks and two hammer drills Monday to repair the damage. The work took four hours to complete and is expected to cost the city $1,080, Emig said. Police said they would keep a close eye on the area Monday night to avoid a repeat of the vandalism. Medvigy, who is expecting to be re-deployed overseas around Christmas, said he would be out this morning helping the Scouts to put up the flags. "I can take contrary opinions, but vandalism has nothing to do with democracy," he said. "It's just a criminal act."

All I know is what I saw on line and posted here. This scout is in Colorado. You might try the national organization of volunteers mentioned in the article. They might even just have a web site.

DENVER - The clear notes of taps played by a live bugler should be part of every veteran's burial service, according to a group of volunteers called Bugles Across America. Colorado is home to the first group of young buglers who are volunteering to play at veteran's services. A month ago, 13-year-old Ray Banks co-founded the cadet corps of Bugles Across America. Banks, who lives Greeley, got involved while looking for an eagle scout project. "I got interested in bugling from scouts because during World War II, scouts were called upon to sound taps at veteran's funerals so it kinda went together," Banks said. Now, 12 young people are part of the cadet corps. They join some 2,000 adult volunteers who play at veteran's services. Bugles Across America is a not for profit organization. Volunteers from the group have played at almost all of the services for U.S. soldiers who have died in Iraqi war. Families of any U.S. veteran can request a volunteer from Bugles Across America. Banks said, "This is is our way of saying thank you to our veteran's for fighting for our country."

Thanx for the thoughts. Let us remember to honor our returning veterans from Afghanistan and Iraq. US Army, 1963 to 1968 Service in Germany and Viet Nam

As a general rule, random parents should not interfere with the operation of the troop or butt into PLC meetings. A contrarian view would suggest that parents have a right to at least know what is going on, and to observe activities in which their children are actively involved. Of course keeping oneself informed as a parent or observing an activity is not the same thing as actively interfering or verbally attacking a youth leader. Does this person have a son who is on the PLC?

I would guess that the volume of space enclosed by the glass globe is too filled with unburned propane and products of the prior combustion to provide enough oxygen to start the ignition. You might try simply blowing gently up through the air holes at the bottom to ventilate the globe.

I have been very busy and not following all the news stories about scouts and scouters as closely as I normally might. Apparently the army officer killed a couple of weeks ago when the rockets hit the hotel in Baghdad was an active scouter. Need I say more? ________________________ ORLANDO, Fla. - The Army officer killed in a rocket barrage on a Baghdad hotel had a high-ranking position in which he directly advised civilian administrator L. Paul Bremer on how the occupation was being received by Iraqis, a military official said Monday. The Pentagon (news - web sites) identified the officer as Lt. Col. Charles H. "Chad" Buehring, 40. He was in his hotel room Sunday at the time of the attack, which also injured fifteen people. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz was visiting the hotel at the time of the attack, but escaped unharmed. Buehring was in charge of psychological operations for Army Forces Central Command, said his commanding officer, Lt. Col. Bo Merchant. Buehring also directly advised Bremer and other officials about how the occupation was being received by average Iraqis and how to encourage their cooperation. "He was just a great American," Merchant said. "An awesome officer." Buehring, who lived in Winter Springs, had served in the Army for 18 years and is survived by a wife and two boys, ages 12 and 9. He was active in the Boy Scouts and his church. "He had the unique ability to balance the needs of the military profession, the needs of his family and the needs of his community simultaneously," said Merchant. "He was very active in Scouting, he was very active in the (Presbyterian) church he was a member of." After graduating from The Citadel with a bachelor's degree in political science in 1985, Buehring was commissioned as a second lieutenant. He later earned master's degrees in international relations and in military arts and strategic studies. In the Army, Buehring graduated from the Special Forces' officer qualifications course, the Army Rangers school and the Pathfinders course. He was a master parachutist and was qualified as an anti-terrorism instructor.

I don't have real strong feelings about this one way or the other. Our troop owns no tents. We have a storage problem for what we do have. Be that as it may, one problem with boys wanting to use their own tents is ending up with too many tents, or tents that are excessively large, on a particular outing. A boy who insists on using his own two man tent by himself is in fact imposing something of a burden on the rest of the group, particularly if you are backpacking. The more excess stuff a scout takes along for his own use, the less community stuff his pack will accomodate. This is reason enough to insist on using the troop gear if you have it.

I agree with KS and Eamonn. Our son has a cell phone and knows when to leave it on and when to turn it off. He has it because we want him to have it. I would probably encourage any scout with a cell phone to leave it in a car at the trail head while back packing, but it is useful for at least one adult to have a cell phone even in the boonies. I venture that most of the adults involved in our troop, and many of the boys, have phones, but they have not created a problem, and they are potentially very useful in emergencies.

As experienced and as respected as this man is, he is not above the rules. Based on his years as a scouter, I am willing to assume that as an individual, he would not harm the youth, but he is still not above the rules. The rules exist to protect him from false accusations as well as to protect the youth. I would simply go with him and the boy to store, but just watch, and not help unless asked. I also would promote YP training in the troop at the earliest possible date. If the council is doing its job, they will have a record of YP trained adults and will not approve tour permits without that box being checked. If enough adults in the unit get trained, they probably will create a ground swell in favor of YP compliance.

Just to be clear, I have no objection to calling this training course "Powder Horn" or any other G rated term. Of course PETA might object to the term "Powder Horn", because of the implied endorsement of the suffering of cows for the benefit of humans...but I digress. I too like the allusion to earlier times. In another thread some time ago, somebody pointed out how different councils adopted different names for their training courses, even though they were all supposedly going off of the same syllabi. For the benefit of people who move around - and Americans do move around a lot - I like the idea of standardizing the names whatever somebody chooses to call the courses.

Embellishing a bit on FOG's response...Historically, Powder Horns were horns off of cows that the frontiersmen converted to containers to carry their black powder in. I've never spent that much time around black powder, but I believe they sawed off the tips of the horns just a bit to provide a narrow opening to pour the powder into the barrels of their guns. Just why BSA chose to use this term for the training syllabus, I do not know.

I have no strong feelings about this either way. Certainly equity suggests that women should be as susceptible to conscription as men. The whole argument is largely moot. I doubt that we will ever see the kind of conflicts that we had in WWI, WWII, Korea, or Viet Nam, requiring millions of people in uniform over a long period of time. Unless enlistments start falling off for some unforeseeable reason, I think our all volunteer force will be sufficient.

My general impression of the notion of "cracker barrel" in scouting is any late night snack. Sometimes around a campfire, often in a lodge or dining hall, usually only adults or possibly including senior scouts. It is another opportunity to socialize and swap exagerrations. (I almost wrote lies, but then I remember that scouts don't lie).

Oh I agree. The melody for our national anthem is also quite difficult to sing. If I could only remember the words.... One hates to give the French credit for anything these days, but the Marseilles as a national anthem does stir the blood.