eisely

These are an official BSA item. When my middle son, and several of his peers, got his eagle several years ago, we parents gave our sons personalized throw blankets with their names and the dates of their eagle on them, and with the six inch patch sewn on. This made a nice item to send to young man off to college with.

Whatever it is you are talking about...it never made it into my brain. Sorry can't help.

I too am running Norton and have had no problems until about a week ago. I could not get into this forum at all again until yesterday. It went away for me suddenly and suddenly it is back. Norton did several updates during that interval. It does make one suspicious. There are settings on your Norton internet software that you can modify that will affect how you access different web sites. I ran into a similar problem last summer when I needed to download some data from a commercial site that sells data. I had to tweak Norton to enable it to work.

I don't think you can infer anything about Pat Tillman's beliefs from what his younger brother allegedly said.

If you or I were to write something like this, we would likely be charged with a hate crime. The hate and venom on display in this piece by a graduate student here in the United States needs to be brought into the daylight. I pasted this not to belittle Pat Tillman, to inform you of some of the incredible attitudes present on our campuses. ___________________________ Pat Tillman is not a hero: He got what was coming to him By Rene Gonzalez April 28, 2004 When the death of Pat Tillman occurred, I turned to my friend who was watching the news with me and said, "How much you want to bet they start talking about him as a 'hero' in about two hours?" Of course, my friend did not want to make that bet. He'd lose. In this self-critical incapable nation, nothing but a knee-jerk "He's a hero" response is to be expected. I've been mystified at the absolute nonsense of being in "awe" of Tillman's "sacrifice" that has been the American response. Mystified, but not surprised. True, it's not everyday that you forgo a $3.6 million contract for joining the military. And, not just the regular army, but the elite Army Rangers. You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the "real" thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should call Pat Tillman's army life "Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets Killed." But, does that make him a hero? I guess it's a matter of perspective. For people in the United States, who seem to be unable to admit the stupidity of both the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars, such a trade-off in life standards (if not expectancy) is nothing short of heroic. Obviously, the man must be made of "stronger stuff" to have had decided to "serve" his country rather than take from it. It's the old JFK exhortation to citizen service to the nation, and it seems to strike an emotional chord. So, it's understandable why Americans automatically knee-jerk into hero worship. However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico, Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot. Tillman, in the absurd belief that he was defending or serving his all-powerful country from a seventh-rate, Third World nation devastated by the previous conflicts it had endured, decided to give up a comfortable life to place himself in a combat situation that cost him his life. This was not "Ramon or Tyrone," who joined the military out of financial necessity, or to have a chance at education. This was a "G.I. Joe" guy who got what was coming to him. That was not heroism, it was prophetic idiocy. Tillman, probably acting out his nationalist-patriotic fantasies forged in years of exposure to Clint Eastwood and Rambo movies, decided to insert himself into a conflict he didn't need to insert himself into. It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable. What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his "service" was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in. Perhaps it's the old, dreamy American thought process that forces them to put sports greats and "larger than life" sacrificial lambs on the pedestal of heroism, no matter what they've done. After all, the American nation has no other role to play but to be the cheerleaders of the home team; a sad role to have to play during conflicts that suffer from severe legitimacy and credibility problems. Matters are a little clearer for those living outside the American borders. Tillman got himself killed in a country other than his own without having been forced to go over to that country to kill its people. After all, whether we like them or not, the Taliban is more Afghani than we are. Their resistance is more legitimate than our invasion, regardless of the fact that our social values are probably more enlightened than theirs. For that, he shouldn't be hailed as a hero, he should be used as a poster boy for the dangerous consequences of too much "America is #1," frat boy, propaganda bull. It might just make a regular man irrationally drop $3.6 million to go fight in a conflict that was anything but "self-defense." The same could be said of the unusual belief of 50 percent of the American nation that thinks Saddam Hussein was behind Sept. 11. One must indeed stand in awe of the amazing success of the American propaganda machine. It works wonders. Al-Qaeda won't be defeated in Afghanistan, even if we did kill all their operatives there. Only through careful and logical changing of the underlying conditions that allow for the ideology to foster will Al-Qaeda be defeated. Ask the Israelis if 50 years of blunt force have eradicated the Palestinian resistance. For that reason, Tillman's service, along with that of thousands of American soldiers, has been wrongly utilized. He did die in vain, because in the years to come, we will realize the irrationality of the War on Terror and the American reaction to Sept. 11. The sad part is that we won't realize it before we send more people like Pat Tillman over to their deaths. Rene Gonzalez is a UMass graduate student.

One alternative would be to remove the old streamers and mount them in a shadow box or something. Some of them may rightfully belong to patrols from camporee competitions. It might not be a bad idea to do this annually. Award streamers have been around as long as I can remember, and that is decades. I surmise that they are modeled after military battle streamers awarded to units for participation in various campaigns. Military units also get recognized with "presidential citations" and the like for particular achievements.

The Wall Street Journal on line put up this earlier column about Pat Tillman written by Peggy Noonan. _______________________ Privileged to Serve In this war, not only the sons and daughters of the poor are enlisting. Friday, April 23, 2004 1:45 p.m. EDT (Editor's note: This column appeared on July 12, 2002. Pat Tillman died in combat in Afghanistan yesterday.) Maybe he was thinking Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. Maybe it was visceral, not so much thought as felt, and acted upon. We don't know because he won't say, at least not in public. Which is itself unusual. Silence is the refuge of celebrities caught in scandal, not the usual response of those caught red-handed doing good. All we know is that 25-year-old Pat Tillman, a rising pro football player (224 tackles in 2000 as a defensive back for the Arizona Cardinals, a team record) came back from his honeymoon seven weeks ago and told his coaches he would turn down a three-year, $3.6 million contract and instead join the U.S. Army. For a pay cut of roughly $3.54 million dollars over three years. On Monday morning, Pat Tillman "came in like everyone else, on a bus from a processing station," according to a public information officer at Fort Benning, Ga., and received the outward signs of the leveling anonymity of the armed forces: a bad haircut, a good uniform and physical testing to see if he is up to the rigors of being a soldier. Soon he begins basic training. And whatever else happened this week--Wall Street news, speeches on the economy--nothing seems bigger, more important and more suggestive of change than what Pat Tillman did. Those who know him say it's typical Tillman, a surprise decision based on his vision of what would be a good thing to do. When he was in college he sometimes climbed to the top of a stadium light tower to think and meditate. After his great 2000 season he was offered a $9 million, five-year contract with the St. Louis Rams and said thanks but no, he was happy with the Cardinals. But it was clear to those who knew Mr. Tillman that after September 11 something changed. The attack on America had prompted a rethinking. Len Pasquarelli of ESPN reported last May that the "free-spirited but consummately disciplined" starting strong safety told friends and relatives that, in Mr. Pasquarelli's words, "his conscience would not allow him to tackle opposition fullbacks where there is still a bigger enemy that needs to be stopped in its tracks." Mr. Tillman's agent and friend Frank Bauer: "This is something he feels he has to do. For him, it's a mindset, a duty." "I'm sorry, but he is not taking inquiries," said the spokeswoman at Fort Benning. She laughed when I pressed to speak to someone who might have seen Mr. Tillman or talked to him. Men entering basic training don't break for interviews, she said. Besides, "he has asked not to have any coverage. We've been respecting his wishes. And kinda hoping he'd change his mind." Mr. Tillman would, of course, be a mighty recruiting device. The Army might have enjoyed inviting television cameras to record his haircut, as they did with Elvis. But Mr. Tillman, the Fort Benning spokesman says, "wants to be anonymous like everyone else." Right now he has 13 weeks of basic training ahead of him, then three weeks of Airborne School, and then, if he makes it, Ranger School, where only about a third of the candidates are accepted. "It's a long row," said the Fort Benning spokesman, who seemed to suggest it would be all right to call again around Christmas. Until then he'll be working hard trying to become what he wants to become. Which I guess says it all. Except for this. We are making a lot of Tillmans in America, and one wonders if this has been sufficiently noted. The other day friends, a conservative intellectual and his activist wife, sent a picture of their son Gabe, a proud and newly minted Marine. And there is Abe, son of a former high aide to Al Gore, who is a lieutenant junior grade in the Navy, flying SH-60 Seahawk helicopters. A network journalist and his wife, also friends, speak with anguished pride of their son, in harm's way as a full corporal in the Marines. The son of a noted historian has joined up; the son of a conservative columnist has just finished his hitch in the Marines; and the son of a bureau chief of a famous magazine was commissioned a second lieutenant in the Army last month, on the day he graduated from Princeton. As the Vietnam-era song said, "Something's happening here." And what it is may be exactly clear. Some very talented young men, and women, are joining the armed forces in order to help their country because, apparently, they love it. After what our society and culture have been through and become the past 30 years or so, you wouldn't be sure that we would still be making their kind, but we are. As for their spirit, Abe's mother reports, "Last New Year's, Abe and his roommate [another young officer] were home and the topic came up about how little they are paid [compared with] the kids who graduated from college at the same time they did and went into business. "Without missing a beat the two of them said, 'Yeah--but we get to get shot at!' and raised their beer bottles. No resentment. No anger. Just pure . . . testosterone-laden bravado." The Abes and Gabes join a long old line of elders dressed in green, blue, gray, white, gold and black. Pat Tillman joins a similar line, of stars who decided they had work to do, and must leave their careers to do it. They include, among others, the actors Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gable and Tyrone Power in World War II; sports stars Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio in the same war; and quarterback Roger Staubach in Vietnam. It is good to see their style return, and be considered noble again. And good to see what appears to be part of, or the beginning of, a change in armed forces volunteering. In the Vietnam era of my youth it was poor and working-class boys whom I saw drafted or eagerly volunteering. Now more and more I see the sons and daughters of the privileged joining up. That is a bigger and better story than usually makes the front page. Markets rise and fall, politicians come and go, but that we still make Tillmans is headline news. Ms. Noonan is a contributing editor of The Wall Street Journal and author of "A Heart, a Cross, and a Flag" (Wall Street Journal Books/Simon & Schuster), a collection of post-Sept. 11 columns, which you can buy from the OpinionJournal bookstore. Her column appears Thursdays.

It is highly unusual for anyone to give up a high income career to enlist at the bottom of the ladder in the military. While all the young people who have volunteered for military service are to be thanked and saluted, his sacrifice was unique.

Like Evmori, I probably qualify for the geezer category. I grew up as a boy scout in Missouri, and have lived in California for many years now. Have been an adult volunteer for over fifteen years. Served as Pack Treasurer, Webelos Leader, ASM, CC, and on district training staff. Also OA Vigil member. zippie2223, Hopefully your new cubmaster will be successful. When we were involved in cubs, we had an interim cubmaster for one year who was outstanding. He was military due for reassignment, and we knew we had to recruit a replacement which we were able to do. But this one guy went on a recruiting binge and doubled the size of the pack in a single month. It was a great year.

I guess the council is lucky that she didn't have access to all the larger cookie jars. __________________________ Bookkeeper for Boy Scouts pleads guilty to stealing almost $207,000 By MATT GRYTA News Staff Reporter 4/20/2004 Kathleen Maeder, bookkeeper for the Greater Niagara Frontier Council of the Boy Scouts of America for the last two decades, pleaded guilty Monday to stealing almost $207,000 from the group over the last five years. Under a pre-indictment plea before Erie County Judge Sheila A. DiTullio, Maeder pleaded guilty to second-degree grand larceny for the theft of money from the sale of items at the Scout Store on Maryvale Drive in Cheektowaga. Maeder, 45, of Livingston Street in Lancaster, faces a prison term of up to three years when she is sentenced June 30. She was allowed to remain free without bail pending sentencing. Maeder admitted stealing $206,939 from the Scouts but has not said what she did with the money. District Attorney Frank J. Clark and financial crimes prosecutor Candace K. Vogel said Boy Scout officials were long suspicious about apparent discrepancies in books kept by Maeder, a Scout employee for 22 years. Clark and Vogel said the Scout council is seeking full restitution. Gary Butler, executive director of the Niagara Frontier Council, which administers Scouting in Erie County and western Niagara County, said Maeder was confronted in December and was forced to resign in January. Scout officials then contacted Cheektowaga police and the district attorney's office. "We will be working with the district attorney's office to do an asset reconstruction . . . to try to find out what she did with the funds," Butler said. Because of discrepancies in the books Maeder was keeping, the council's board had a forensic accountant audit all the financial records dating from May 1999. The audit established that only money from the store was missing, not other contributions from donors, court officials said.

I guess one of the real issues is not pulling the trailer, but pushing it while backing up, particularly in uneven terrain or in real wet or snowy conditions. You might want to set up some practice sessions in a parking lot somewhere to see who can really handle a trailer in reverse.

One of my bad habits is the occasional use of profanity, although rarely in front of youth, either scouts or just youth. You did the right thing to speak to the cubmaster directly. He is setting a terrible example. Somehow he has to get the message. Have you discussed this with any of the other parents?

I too find FOG's personal attacks gratuitous, unnecessary, and un scoutlike. As far as I can tell, I have been slammed only one. He does contribute useful insights from time to time, in spite of his attitude problem. Hopefully he will maybe mend the errors of his ways.

The only formal meeting we have is the monthly committee meeting. The SM and the ASMs all attend along with the other committee members. This is not consistent with the official BSA bifurcation between the committee and the "unit leaders" (SM & ASMs). However it works for us. The main focus is near term scheduling and adjustments to schedules, in light of the overall annual plan. Adult leaders also get together informally during troop meetings to conduct routine business that might narrowly involve a specific outing or event.

Every unit I have been affiliated with, either pack or troop, collected a small fixed amount for such new registrants. As Twocubdad says, you need to estimate what pack level expenses you might incur until the fall rechartering time and put that forward as your standard fee.

There is little to add to the prior posts. Setting expectations clearly is critical to this boy's success. I suggest a meeting with the boy and the parents together to explain the requirements and provide the necessary definition of "active" and "actively serve". Clearly you have some concerns otherwise you would not have initiated this thread. You do have a lot latitude in setting these expectations, but if you do not do it now, you will have nothing but grief from the parents later on if the boy does not get his rank. I would want a SM conference with just the boy first to find out from him what his motivation really is.

Good Evening Mrs. Smith and welcome to the forum. I am among those who see value in writing at least some things down. I am not sure I would call such writings "bylaws", but there is value in providing new parents and boys with some guidelines. For example, there is no standard for "serving actively" in a position of leadership to meet rank requirements for the higher ranks. I think that setting expectations for what "actively serve" means will help aspirant youth leaders, and the other scouts they seek to lead. Such expectations are best put in writing so there is no dispute when a boy is up for advancement. Job descriptions for committee members is another item. While the Troop Committee Guidebook envisions very specific divisions of responsibilities, in fact you have complete latitude in how you go about this. Larger units will find it necessary to subdivide these responsibilities; e.g., spinning off Friends of Scouting into a separate responsibility apart from Treasurer. So there is much that can and should be written down. If you want to call them bylaws, feel free to do so, but do commit some things to writing. It will make for a much better functioning organization.

Well here goes with another personal note. Our oldest son has signed on with a major contractor to go work in Iraq. He is not in the military and he was not ordered to do this. He is doing it because he wants to make a difference for his country and the world at large. This has all happened very fast. He signed his employment contract on Wednesday, April 7, and expects to be enroute to Baghdad on April 20. Needless to say, we, as parents are awash in a variety of emotions. We know that he is very self reliant adn capable, and can succeed at this. He never made eagle, but he racked up other accomplishments. I like to think that his scouting experience has helped there somewhere, certainaly in his old fashioned patriotism. Those of you who remember our military in your prayers should also include the civilians who are part of this historic event. Thank you for letting me impose on you.

I too remember "spiffys" although I haven't seen or used one in decades. As near as I can tell, that is what is pictured on the link. It ought to work for you. If I am not mistaken, sailors in the navy used to wear what they called "cheaters" which were neckties that you hung on your collar without passing it around your neck or tying it. Maybe you could convert you BSA green tie to a cheater.

I have always understood that BSA owns some trade marks, and the word "scouts" by itself is not covered. What is covered is "boy scouts". I could be wrong about that, but that is my current understanding.

Here is at least one elected official who publicly endorses boy scouts. I can't imagine an elected official here in the San Francisco Bay area doing this. _________________________- Sanford stumps for local Boy Scouts fund-raiser By Kelly Marshall The Sun News A fund-raising campaign for local Boy Scouts received a boost Monday night from Gov. Mark Sanford. Sanford, former president of the Coastal Carolina Council, Boy Scouts of America, stopped by the TPC Golf Club in Murrells Inlet to ask for support and donations for the Scouts in the Black River District. Money raised through the fund-raising campaign will pay for the district's scouting events and activities. "Scouting can make a real difference in a child's life," Sanford said. "The principals of scouting are unbelievably important." Sanford, an Eagle Scout, sat with other long-time Boy Scouts Kendall Buckner and Marshall Bryant. "Scouting creates good moral judgment," Buckner said. "It's up to us as parents and adults to teach the right choices." Alan Walters, the Black River district chairman, presented Sanford with several gifts and said two Boy Scout scholarships would be named in Sanford's honor. The governor gave up his position with the Coastal Carolina Council during his run for governor but still praises the effect it has had on his life. "The scouting program trains young leaders," Sanford said. "It teaches persistence." The Black River District is in the Coastal Carolina region. It also includes Boy Scouts from Georgetown, Charleston, Goose Creek, Summerville and Beaufort. "I appreciated him being here," said Boy Scout leader Reed Worrell. "Scouting is something that just kind of stays with you."

I suspect that there have been other incidents of youth being forced out after declaring that they were homosexual. However, BSA is not going to broadcast this information, and I suspect any youth involved would probably want to keep it to themselves as well. This guy apparently is now over 18.

This update was posted to the internet about 20 hours ago. ______________________ Search Resumes For Missing Man Man May Be Suffering From Depression POSTED: 11:40 am PDT April 4, 2004 UPDATED: 12:29 pm PDT April 4, 2004 AGOURA HILLS, Calif. -- The whereabouts of an Agoura Hills man remained a mystery Sunday -- a week after he disappeared from his home. A search Saturday, involving sheriff's deputies, family members, Boy Scouts and other volunteers, failed to turn up any sign of Timothy Verne Perryman. Family members and volunteers planned to resume searching Sunday, a local television station reported. Sheriff's personnel were not slated to take part Sunday, said Sgt. Peter Charbonneau of the Malibu/Lost Hills Station. Perryman, 53, was last seen at about 2 p.m. on March 28, shortly before he drove his vehicle from his home in the 29100 block of Garden Oaks Court, Deputy Luis Castro said earlier. Sometime that night, Perryman -- who suffers from medical problems and was said to be depressed -- parked the vehicle in his driveway and left home on foot, authorities said. Saturday's search effort, which began about 9 a.m., involved a sheriff's search and rescue team and a helicopter crew, said sheriff's Sgt. Cally Barrier. Previous searches involving "scent dogs" had been unsuccessful. Perryman reportedly is an avid hiker and a Boy Scout leader. The search focused on areas he was known to frequent, said Barrier. She said Perryman "may be suffering from depression." Barrier also said that the missing man's "family was concerned because he requires medication for urinary-tract difficulties and they believe he does not have that medication with him." Perryman is white, 5 feet 9 inches tall, and weighs 185 pounds. He has brown hair and hazel eyes. Peggyman was last seen wearing a blue-and-white dress shirt and blue jeans, deputies said earlier. Anyone with information about his whereabouts was asked to call Detective Diane Harris at (323) 890-5500.

As we know it is not unusual to have demonstrators show up protesting BSA's policy on homosexuality. What is unusual is for supporters of BSA to organize a counter demonstration. ________________________________- Groups hold competing rallies on Scout policy 12 protest ban on gay members while others show support By Brian Louis JOURNAL REPORTER The two sides in the debate over the Boy Scouts of America's ban on openly gay members and leaders held small, competing rallies yesterday in front of the Old Hickory Council's headquarters on Silas Creek Parkway. Twelve protesters demonstrated against the policy and carried signs, including some that said "Hate is not morally straight" and "Scouting for all." "The policy is not a Boy Scout thing to do," said Matt Hill, a senior at Reynolds High School, who organized the protest. Hill, 18, said he was forced out of his Boy Scout troop in Winston-Salem about four years ago after he openly said he was gay and founded Students Promoting Equality, Awareness & Knowledge, formerly the Gay/Straight Alliance, at Reynolds. Yesterday's rally was the third protest against Scout policy that Hill has organized in Winston-Salem in recent years. Hill's friend Molly Miller, 18, said she was shocked that he was forced out of the Boy Scouts. "I don't think they should be able to discriminate," said Miller, who went to the rally to support him. "I never thought they would do something like that." Hill said he would "love to get back in the organization" and he'd like to be a Scout leader some day and give back what the Boy Scouts have given him. He joined the Scouts in fifth grade. Meanwhile, on the other side of the driveway leading into the region's Scouting headquarters, about 30 demonstrators supporting the Boy Scouts' policy held such signs as "God bless the Scouts," "Honk for the Boy Scouts," and "God made Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve." The counter-protesters were organized by Vernon Robinson, a member of the Winston-Salem City Council and candidate for the Republican nomination for the 5th Congressional District. The Boy Scout oath says that a Scout will do his best to "keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight." Robinson said that "homosexuality is inconsistent with being morally straight." Dennis Cheek, 49, of Winston-Salem said he was there to support the Boy Scouts' right to set their own policies. He held a sign that said "God bless the Boy Scouts." He said that opponents of the Boy Scouts' policy "have the freedom to form their own group." The issue of gays in the Boy Scouts gained widespread publicity in a lawsuit that ended up being decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. In 2000, the high court ruled that the Boy Scouts, as a private group, has the right to ban gays as leaders. Steve Wilburn, the scout executive with the Old Hickory Council of the Boy Scouts, which covers the Winston-Salem area, said that the group didn't have a problem with the demonstrators outside. He said that the Boy Scouts organization respects the rights of both groups to express themselves. He also reiterated the Boy Scouts' policy banning gays, saying that "we don't believe homosexual behavior is consistent with the values and ideals of the Scout oath and Scout law."

It sounds like this guy went hiking by himself. I am familiar with that area, and it is totally possible to get hurt, although you would have to work at it to get lost. Hopefully they will find him OK. __________________________ Boy Scouts Lead Search For Missing Scoutmaster POSTED: 11:15 pm PST April 2, 2004 UPDATED: 11:18 pm PST April 2, 2004 AGOURA HILLS, Calif. -- Hundreds of Boy Scouts and high school students will join forces early Saturday in the local mountains to search for a scoutmaster who's been missing for five days. It's believed that 53-year-old Tim Perryman went for a hike in the mountains Sunday near his home in Agoura Hills. He never returned. Members of his scout troop will lead the search Saturday. Friday night they gathered together for some last-minute instructions. Anyone wishing to take part in the search is more than welcome. The command post will be at Daylight Drive and Garden Oaks Court in Agoura Hills.