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Rooster,

We have not exchanged views in some time. Nobody here, particularly me, is trying to justify terrorism based on a study of history. I think you will agree that the study of history is important to understand how we arrived a certain point. Just as it is important to understand the development of Germany and Japan and how the world arrived at WWII to avoid repeating those mistakes, so too can we all gain from study of these societies and their histories. Of course the people that need most to open their minds are the ones who live in those societies.

I forgot to mention that these books are all very readable. Neither writer uses gobbledegook to try to over awe their readers. They are too serious for that.

Unfortunately the youth members of OA involved in running ordeals let their adolescence occasionally get the better of them. BW's advice is sound.

I cannot claim to really understand either. Nevertheless, I highly recommend three books; two by an american academic and one by a novelist.

Check out these two recent books by Bernard Lewis. The first is entitled "What Went Wrong". It was released shortly before 9/11. The second is more recent and covers much of the same territory, but still offers fresh insights. It is entitled "The Crisis of Islam".

In the early or mid eighties V.S. Naipul traveled through several predominantly moslem countries, including Pakistan, Indonesia, Maylaysia and Iran. His book is entitled "Amont the Believers". This book is really quite scary. It does not foretell 9/11, but it sure displays some of the bitterness and extremism that we chose to ignore.

I would add Camp Royaneh operated by the San Francisco council.

Granted that the puppy can plead self defense. Will the puppy be tried as an adult or in juvenile court? This is a pretty serious offense.

The major trailer rental companies, such as U-Haul, often sell their older trailers. You will have to be the judge of the quality of any particular used trailer you may consider.

Who is going to own the trailer? Your chartered organization? I would be surprised if you could register the trailer in the troop's own name or get insurance through the troop's name. Troops are not legal entities that can enter into contracts or own property such as vehicles or real estate.

Thanx for the info.

The specific item I am interested in getting ahold of is the "Troop Committee Challenge"

Maybe this question has been already addressed. If so, it won't be the first or only duplication in this forum.

I have been serving as a trainer now for just over three years. I have yet to figure out how I can obtain copies of the published syllabi and related materials produced by National for my own library.

Our troop committee meets monthly, except for July. Responsibilities are currently divided:

Chair, Treasurer, FOS, Advancement, Outdoor, Merit Badge Coordinator, Fund Raising for Unit (car washes), Training, Recording Secretary (more limited scope of duties than Guidebook suggests), Newsletter Publisher/Editor, Webmaster, Scouting for Food

COR attends regularly and provides good liaison with CO.

One thing we do not have is a designated Equipment Coordinator.

This reminds of a story several years ago in Scouting magazine describing a troop started by a retired CalTrans supervisor in the Juvenile Hall in the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles.

_________________________

Prisoners Take Boy Scout Oath Behind Bars

By BRETT BARROUQUERE, Associated Press Writer

LA GRANGE, Ky. - Robert Jackson stood with the two dozen other members of Boy Scout Troop 825, raised his right hand in the traditional Boy Scout sign, and took the oath to do his best for God and country.

Unlike other scouts, Jackson and members of his troop aren't allowed to earn merit badges through mastering camping and other outdoor skills.

That's because they are prison inmates.

"We're trying to teach more long-term planning, how to live when they get out," said Mike Pitzer, who serves as adviser and scout master to the troop at the Kentucky State Reformatory.

The inmates are part of a rehabilitation program for emotionally and mentally disturbed prisoners serving time for everything from murder to sex crimes.

Becoming a member of Troop 825 isn't easy. Inmates must have a mental or emotional problem that renders their mental age at 18 or lower the Boy Scouts require scouts to be under age 18 stay clear of disciplinary violations, have or work toward a high school degree and be willing to follow the rules of the club.

The Boy Scouts sanction the use of their name, logo and methods, so long as the inmates do not have any association with the scouts upon their release, Pitzer said.

Brandi Mantz, a spokeswoman for the National Council of Boy Scouts in Irving, Texas, said the prison program has been successful in the past decade.

"It's always good to help those individuals work their way back into society," Mantz said.

Mantz said the Kentucky scout program is the only one in the state, but others have been chartered around the country.

There are things the prison-based scouts cannot do. Instead of hiking, swimming and camping, members of Troop 825, who wear khaki inmate uniforms along with tan-and-red baseball caps with the Boy Scout fleur-de-lis to meetings, earn merit badges for personal hygiene, balancing a checkbook and learning CPR and first aid. They also raise money to help other inmates and, occasionally, fund a trip by an outside Boy Scout troop.

"Some guys get here, find out it's work, and don't want to come back," Pitzer said.

The inmates who did make it past the initial introduction say the program is helping them work past the issues that landed them in prison in the first place.

William Hiemstra, a tattooed 32-year-old serving 10 years for attempted murder, said the program is teaching him to work better with other people.

"That was always a problem I had," Hiemstra said.

Jackson, who speaks in a slow, deliberate manner and worries about how he sounds, said the troop has taught him practical skills as well as how to trust people.

"There's a better life out there for me than doing crime and going to prison," Jackson said.

For others, like former paramedic Paul Hurt, who is serving three life sentences for sodomy, or Marion Butler, who is serving a 95-year sentence for murder and burglary in Johnson County, the Boy Scouts is a way to occupy some time that might otherwise not be well spent.

"It kind of tames the beast," Hurt said. "I want to see the other guys succeed."

The Kentucky prison scout program, which started in 1989 as a way for prisoners to raise money and to keep inmates occupied, is part of what corrections officials call a national move toward preparing inmates for their eventual release from prison.

Both state-run and private prisons are now offering some sort of prerelease program for inmates ranging from therapy to job training to education, said Cole Carter, director of educational service for Corrections Corporation of America, which runs 65 prisons in 20 states.

"The programs give them some hope and at least makes them less likely to reoffend," Carter said.

Jim Dailey, Kentucky state advocacy director for the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill, said the programs don't do enough to prepare the inmate for release or help them once they are out of the prison environment and on their own.

"That's the disconnect," Dailey said.

Dailey said the Boy Scout troop is an "interesting idea" but without some post-release help, which the troop cannot provide, he's afraid inmates will fall back into their old lives.

"Many, unfortunately, will go back to the situation they had before they went into prison," Dailey said. "They don't know anything else."

But members of Troop 825 insist that the work they've done is preparing them for life outside the fence.

Jackson, a 40-year-old man serving 24 years for murder and burglary, said the lessons he learned will keep him from going back to prison, even without help on the outside.

"I grew up in the ghetto. I didn't have no respect for nobody," Jackson said. "I learned a lot about how to live in this little meeting right here. I'm ready for society."

This story speaks for itself, from a newspaper in Boca Raton Florida.

______________________

Boy Scouts save the day

Published Sunday, August 29, 2004

by Rebecca Huval

On my honor I will do my bestto help other people at all times. This Boy Scout oath guided Palm Beach County troops to Arcadia, FL, where hurricane Charley left thousands of victims.

One hundred and twenty Boy Scouts and parents met at Town Center in Boca Raton 5 a.m. Saturday. In 16 vans, they traveled across the state with 500 sheets of plywood, 40 rolls of dry wall lining and enough meals to feed 2,500 people. The supplies were purchased with $8,000 donated by the First United Methodist Church of Boca Raton and the Gulf Stream Council of Boy Scout troops, among other organizations.

We were listening to (the scouts) in the vans, and they were just like, Wow, these people dont have much. said Mark Wyllie a leader of Boca troop 337, Mark Wyllie.

Once they arrived in Arcadia, the troops and parents distributed food and patched up roofs so that rain couldnt seep through.

All we wanted to do was provide a band-aid to keep the houses dry, Wyllie said.

He said the most touching moment of the day occurred at the first house his troop repaired.

The first one was an old lady, he said. When we showed up, she just started to cry.

But Wyllie said he felt the greatest sense of accomplishment when fixing up a mission house that had provided 60 people with shelter during the storm and is still a location that provides food for hurricane victims.

The mission was rewarding because it affected more than one family, he said. When we saw this building, a quarter of the roof was gone. A trailer had hit the building during the storm, causing part of the roof to blow away.

The troop leader said his scouts enjoyed helping out.

They rolled up their sleeves and worked the whole day, he said. The scouts distributed food and brought supplies inside when it rained, while the 40 adults did construction work.

Our group repaired a couple of houses, said Jamie Paton, a 12-year-old Boy Scout and a student at Spanish River High School. It was fun going over to help. It wasnt like sitting at home. It was something to do.

Paton said he learned a lot that day.

I learned about how strong hurricanes are, he said. I also learned how the citizens react to it. They were really grateful.

Most banks will provide a pre printed corporate resolution regarding signature authority. All you have to do is fill in the blanks.

The advice about not using a personal social security number is extremely sound. Don't even think about doing it. If your CO does not have or does not want to share a tax ID take it up with your DE.

I too have experienced positive statements in public in uniform. I also agree that neither youth nor adult should appear in incomplete uniforms or looking generally slovenly in their appearance. The idea of dressing neatly and completely is something that can be taught through proper wearing of the uniform.

Many many teachers help out as merit badge counselors. They are used to dealing with youth and have much to offer. Most are happy to help and are only waiting to be asked.

Wear it with pride. I wear a large 1957 jamboree patch in the appropriate place on the back of my red "wool jac". I went there as a 15 year old.

One option for some may be for the CO to act as a conduit for donations to its chartered unit. If the CO is a bona fide 501©3 qualified organization, the donor could then deduct the donation for tax purposes. It depends on status and willingness of the CO to do this. A lot of COs, just like councils, want a cut of these kinds of donations.

Strong stuff. Thanks for the input. Good luck in your efforts to turn things around.

Out troop does not participate in the popcorn sales, and to the best of my knowledge, never has. We do two carwashes each year and make a lot of money in two days with an intensive effort.

Upon reflection, and going back to the original premise posed in the subject of this threat, maybe this incident is really an argument for having lots of beer in camp. If the bear goes for the beer and passes out, isn't the bear less of a threat? Of course, some bears, like some people, may become more beligerent when intoxicated. The one thing we can say for sure is that having Busch around is not going to do you any good at all.

There are two primary interfaces with our council/district at the unit level. One is adult and youth training. The second is camporee. Our council operates a summer camp, but we go out of council. The other major event that used to take place was scout-o-rama. That fell by the wayside because of lack of participation. There some other events such as merit badge weekends, but our troop typically does not participate in those. The bulk of our program is decided by the boys and involves up to twenty activities or outings a year.

Welcome to the campfire. Just remember not to threaten others with burning sticks as sometimes happens around here.

Our district training is all financed with fees charged to trainees. The money goes through the council and there is a separate process for accounting for the funds. In a start up situation I would think that the council would front the money for the syllabi or at least lend materials to you.

AV equipment is also a sore spot with us. Our council has AV gear but it is difficult to get sometimes.

Individual trainers also provide a lot of stuff. I know that I have accumulated materials that I use for Outdoor Leader Skills. Anything that I buy for which I am not reimbursed I treat as a donation for tax purposes. It is legitimate to do so.

I don't believe I have ever had a Rainier beer, but its got to be better than Busch. The bear showed excellent taste.