eisely

We are fortunate in having an activist honest Advancement person on our committee. We are also fortunate in owning a laptop dedicated to this purpose. She brings that to every regular meeting and invites scouts to update her records, so as a unit we are less at risk of the kind of situation you describe. Whether or not you own a troop laptop, establishing a process for frequent regular updates of troop records is a great idea and greatly enhances your advancement program.

Beavah,

Thanks for the personal shot. I started this thread precisely because I was looking for information. What has been posted is most helpful.

You, the scout, and the troop are all fortunate that there appears to be plenty of time for the scout to complete the requirements. Having a sit down with the boy and his parents is very wise. Document that meeting with a written note to your file about what exactly was discussed and what commitments were made. Even better, fire off a polite friendly email documenting the meeting. Print out a copy of that email and any responses for your files.

A great deal of good could come out of this. First the boy might legitmately earn his eagle. Second the committee will learn something and a better relationship established between the SM and committee. Third all other aspiring eagles, and those who already have earned theirs, will understand the seriousness of the requirements and the award will not be cheapened.

The thread started about the death on the Snake River raises a number of important issues. There is a trend among Americans generally to push the envelope in recreational pursuits, often at great and unrecognized risk. After someone dies people scratch their heads and wonder why anybody would do such things. This is not a sensible approach.

I am an experienced canoeist with limited whitewater experience. I find it scary at times and have consumed plenty of raw river water. My family and I did whitewater rafting with a commerical operation on the South Fork of the American River thirteen years ago. While we had fun, my wife and I agreed we would not do it again. Even though we were in a raft skippered by an experienced trained guide, I still ended up in the water.

The lack of training standards is a serious cause of concern. As a member of our council's newly formed Aquatics Committee, I have an obligation to think seriously about these matters. I count myself as experienced, but still lacking a lot of knowledge.

What kinds of non BSA training would people suggest? Would training make a difference?

kcs-hiker

You mention safe swim defense and similar courses. There are a variety of training courses related to general safety and to specific activities, not the type of unit you are working with. In particular there are now requirements for aquatics and shooting sports that apply to all levels of scouting. In addition to the on line youth protection available to and required for all, there is now a course on weather hazards (I forget the exact title). At least one of the named adult leaders on a tour permit will be required to have the relevant training. You need to research the Guide to Safe Scouting and look at the current tour permit form to identify these additional requirements.

Yes you are - as am I. My sons occasionally give me a little grief, but I see no need to apologize for my tastes in music, live theatre, or movies. I was as disinterested in celebrities when I was much younger as I am now. If that makes me hopelessly out of date I look at my lack of interest in such things as proof that I have transcended some concerns.

Our council is fortunate to have a facility that it owns outright that is dedicated to summer camp for cubs. Frankly I am not familiar with the details since our sons had aged out of cubs by the time we moved here. Nevertheless it seems to be a great activity on its own and a great retention mechanism.

As you describe the situation, it sounds pretty clear. Nevertheless be prepared for a lot of grief if he does not get his eagle on your watch. I hope your records regarding non performance of any POR are good.

An interesting problem to have. Most troops in our area, while chartered to churches, are highly diverse in their membership. I feel lucky if people just say grace at meal times.

Good advice gsdad. I have not always done everything in scouting that I would like to do for precisely the same reason. I have not seen the term used in these fora, but one used to hear of "scouting widows," referring to wives who were neglected in favor of scouting. Some wives are OK with that, but if there is any doubt, err on the side of your spouse and family. You don't want your "scouting widow" to become a "scouting divorcee."

I have used both Amtrak and an air/bus combination. South Carolina is a little far away to take a train. Philmont should be able to help you identify bus service connections from either Colorado Springs or Albuquerque (sp?).

Planning to take an extra 24 hours in the base camp is a very good idea, particularly to let your bodies become acclimated to the higher elevation.

I always suggest to new parents that they should get the long one and stitch in a fold at the shoulder. The boys will only grow taller, not shorter.

Open to both. The training syllabus and requirements have also changed.

It is worth repeating a message about something that has come up in the past regarding tax ID numbers.

DO NOT USE ANYBODY'S PERSONAL SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER ON YOUR UNIT BANK ACCOUNT.

I would do it the old fashioned way. Print it out, and attach stuff manually. I would not mess with trying to get the technology to work. One thing I do suggest to scouts is to type stuff up and print it out, then physically cut and paste necessary narrative into the workbook.

This incident apparently took place in Florida. One surmises that there is substance to the story. Deputies usually don't arrest people and lay charges without good cause.

_________________

One adult and three teens have been charged with kidnapping a 12-year-old boy who was forced to drink urine at a Putnam County Boy Scout camp, deputies said.

The arrests occurred Friday in Hawthorne. Deputies said the suspects held the victim against his will at the camp on Baden Powell Road. During the kidnapping, the boy was forced to drink human urine, deputies said.

Deputies said the suspects were attending the camp from Ocala and were retailing against the boy for things he said earlier in the week.. No details were provided about the victim.

_________________

Apparently the reporter does not know the difference between retailing and retaliating. Spell check will always helpfully you spell the wrong word correctly.

Anyone know anything about this?

Living in the San Francisco Bay Area, all local UW chapters have cut off local BSA councils from automatic allocations. The local chapters claim that they will forward designated funds to the BSA council you specify, but frankly I don't think it happens. The only reason I have given to UW in recent years is because of employer pressure to participate at some level. I still get to deduct the contribution for tax purposes, but I don't think my council has ever seen a dime of my money through UW.

Given the scandals in some UW local chapters, and my doubts about their promises, I will never give to UW again, at least in this area.

It really is too bad. UW was organized to promote fund raising efficiency and allow one stop giving for both employers and employees. Like so many other American institutions it has been seriously damaged by political correctness.

Our troop generally leaves the legwork to the parents of the new eagles. The troop also provides a budget of $100+ (not sure of the current amount) per eagle for the parents to spend as they see fit. Anything over that is the parents' responsibility. We help with scheduling the facility, but that is about it, unless the parents make specific requests.

One other thing that we ask of parents is for parents of life scouts to actually help out with the reception on the day of the ECOH to liberate the parents of the new eagles to bask in their sons' achievements.

Clearly removal is a last resort, but it needs to be on the table as at least a possibility. There are scouts who merely want to get their tickets punched on the trail to eagle. This is where the problem with the national limitation on "active" becomes problematic. If the more cynical scouts and their parents believe that all they need to do is stay registered and get themselves named for a POR, we have created a "moral hazard" that will provide an incentive for the kind of behavior we wish to prevent.

Twocubdad,

Your counter example regarding the QM position is sound and appreciated. Kudos to the young man.

Like many others I am most focused on leadership positions, not the other "staff" positions. Having a PL or SPL who tries to lead without showing up is a prescription for a weak and confused program. All of this shows that effective monitoring, mentoring, evaluation, and possibly timely removal by adult leadership is a large part of making this all work to everybody's benefit, whatever position is involved.

One hour a week, that's all we ask.

This is a difficult topic and I know of no easy solution. I agree that the first obligation lies with the adult leaders, and the SM in particular, to monitor what is going on, to know the strengths and weaknesses of individual boys, and to provide appropriate mentoring and evaluation on a timely basis. How many of us would always measure up to this level of performance with every boy in our troop?

I personally have no difficulty with setting metrics for participation or at least showing up. However, such metrics should not be the only consideration in giving credit for POR time served. The primary value of such metrics is that they would at least ensure some level of minimum even handedness in dealing with the boys. I think the boys themselves would be the strongest advocates of this.

Clearly the SM or SPL needs to be prepared to evaluate mid term and remove a scout from a POR if warranted.

One thing that is missing in this discussion is the impact on the other boys and the program of the troop. For a boy to accept a POR, particularly PL or SPL, and not even attempt to execute his responsibilities is a huge disservice to other boys. This is one of the things that needs to be impressed upon the boys when they are considering taking on a POR. It is not just a matter of adult expectations and rank advancement, but what does or does not happen if the boy does not "actively serve."

I would also add that the POR requirement does not require the boy to be either effective or successful. If a boy is really trying and makes numerous mistakes during his term, he should still get credit for the position.

We should strive to treat our scouts as individuals, but we still need to have some minimum metrics. If we really do our jobs as adults and monitor and intervene early in a boy's term in a POR, the metrics become less important, but they should still be there as a backstop.

It will be interesting to see how this thing flies. I predict that there will be attempts to amend the resolution to make it more politically correct. We will have to see who proposes amendments and the content of those amendments.

It will be interesting to see how this thing flies. I predict that there will be attempts to amend the resolution to make it more politically correct. We will have to see who proposes amendments and the content of those amendments.

As I recall (subject to correction) the advancement rules require the eagle candidate to provide references and the EBOR, or its agents, to obtain information from those references about the candidate. There is no reason this could not be done via telephone calls within the rules. Every district I have ever heard of requires letters because this is a more efficient process, at least for the people coordinating the EBORs. Relying on oral references is a process that would quickly break down and become way too time consuming for the volunteers involved.(This message has been edited by eisely)

The only consistently positive experience I had dealing with hardware problems was with Apple. Our youngest son went to a private high school where Apple laptops were required. Apple offers a service where, after an initial telephone diagnosis, they would send me a shipping box overnight, I would pack up the laptop, ship it off, and usually get it back in two business days.

My experience with local repair shops has generally been positive - certainly no one month delays.

I get nervous dealing with the service departments in some of the "big box" dealers. Over the years we purchased products at CompUSA, a chain that is no longer in business. They always tried to sell extended service contracts and we always declined because I never had the confidence the store would be around to honor any such contracts. Turns out I was right.