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>> Webelos II son has Pinewood Derby this weekend. His car is almost done. Here's my question: Is is mandatory that the car axles be placed in slots, or can we use pre-drilled holes? Do you know where it states this in the rules? The best rules to check are the Pack rules, although the box does come with some rules its up to the pack to take into account local conditions, skills and other factors. After having helped built a number of cars in the den and for my son (and for myself in the 1960's) I can state that the axles placement in the BSA kit is the best one as it provides for correct height on the track. Drilling your own holes to get the right under-car clearance is tricky.

>> Is it ever possible for a 4th grader who may be 10 to cross over to Boy Scouts? The requirements read Be active in your Webelos den for at least 6 months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old) >> If I am understanding the requirements correctly, AoL MUST be 10 yrs 6months? Yes, that is one option. >> Also, do the requirements mean 5th grade as the year requirement with the age requirement as AND 10, or 11, or AoL (assuming it's 10 1/2)? No, this is an OR type of requirement. It is quite possible for a boy to earn AoL in 4th grade, the LDS packs do it this way and the Webelos Leaders Guide offers a few options. One intresting thing I learned was that in my Council we have a lot of boys who were held back in Kindergarten or 1st Grade and then matured faster. In the case of a few boys I know they are quite ready for a Troop. They and there Parents don't think that another 8 or 9 months as a Cub would be of benefit. In fact the boy could get so bored that he drops out of Cubs. I also know a number of boys who joined in 5th grade, took on the challenge and earned AoL in 8 months. So I think the bottom line of this is each boy and his matrurity level. Does the boy present his badge work at the Den versus his Parents? Does the boy finish up badge work on his own? Does the boy start a badge without being asked?

After having been an advancement chair for a whole year I discovered that that there are quite a few ways to read the book. For Wolf all 12 achievements are required for the badge, so there would be no unused ones. The book does says an arrow for every 10 earn in the Elective section. The book does not say anything about unused parts of achievements but I would suspect that in the absence of a rule we should not make up our own. For Bear 12 of the 24 achievements are required for the badge, so there would be 12 unused ones. But the book does say "Unused parts of achievements that were used for the Bear badge may NOT be counted toward Arrow Points". So by doing an achievement for the badge, the other easy ones of the same achievement are locked out.

Hot meals that are easy to prepare such as meals that use one big pot, like a casserole, sloppy joes with biscuits in the same pot. Also hobo chicken. Cold meals would work as a snack, but usually the hot meal in the cold weather makes the folks comfortable after playing in the cold. Breakfast could be a hot cereal like Quaker Oats. Lunch could be a soup and hot dogs, like tomato soup. Grilled cheese sandwhices work great also. Our Den campouts try to minimize the number of cooking pots so we spend only a little time cleaning and more time on fun. The restroom facilites have to provde the campers privacy while they are being used. Porta potties that lock are acceptable. Indoor facilities are not required but are preffered. Many adults prefer to take a daily shower so that might have to be factored in. Water is tricky, its better if there is running water. Although you can carry in water, water is heavy. I think you need 3 gals per person per day. Board games at night are great. On one campout out we had the DVD version of Family Fued. Although its electronic it was a participation game, try to stay away from game boys. Verify that your local Council has approved the place. This usually means that Council taken all the aspects of the location and made a determination.

I've seen this whole gift thing cause issues with others who provide substantial service to the whole pack yet get no gift and little mention. The Committee Chair, Advancement Chair, Outings Chair and so forth work just as hard all year long. So I would think that if a few active people are leaving the gifts should be consumate with the effort involved. Just my 2 cents.

Just seeking advice here. In the 4th grade Webelos Den I lead we have 5 scouts. 3 of them had been held back in school during the 1st grade for a variety of reasons and in the past years have overcome those issues. Maturatity wise they are very good scouts. However, they will be turning 11 during the coming summer, before they go to 5th grade. The three parents were looking over options on what to do? The 3 boys have camped a lot and have all earned Webelos. The AoL requirments do allow a boy who 10 years old plus six months to earn the AoL. We were talking about a May corssover for them, but would a troop accept or reject a 5th grader who happens to be 11?

Just seeking advice here. In the Webelos Den I lead we have 5 scouts. 3 of them had been held back in school during the 1st grade for a variety of reasons and in the past years have overcome those issues. Maturatity wise they are very good scouts. However, they will be turning 11 this coming summer, before they goto 5th grade. The three parents were looking over options on what to do? The AoL requirments do allow a boy who 10 years old plus six months to earn the AoL. We were talking about a May corssover for them, but would a troop accept or reject a 5th grader who happens to be 11?

The Webelos den I leads starts with an opening flag, to include the BS Oath and the BS Law, and recently we're practing God Bless America. Then we make presentations of awards, mostly for the boys that miss the pack meetings. Then we go through the homework from the past meeting. Take a short break. The we spend about 20 to 35 minutes working on items for activity badges with another break in between. Then looking at a skit or song needed for the Pacl meeting. We finish the meeting with a closing ceremony. We meet twice a month with 5 boys, parents are required to attend. Once in a while one parent has to do something and that is OK. Each parent is assigned at least 1 mandatory badge and 2 others. This has worked well and we've swapped some around. For each badge we cover a number of items that is best suited to a group and the rest to earn the pin are done as homework, where they get to chose the items to do. This seperates those that want to from those that don't. Mandatory badges are different, we try to do them all at a den meeting. I use to track by spreadsheet but gave it up. I could never keep the books in synch with the sheet. Its mandaory to bring the book and I turn in advancements based on that. Our pack provides the books as part of the dues so its a responsibility thing. No book = No advancements. Of the 5 boys, four are great and they present there own work. One still has his mom do most of his presenting. Any ideas on how to talk to her nicely to get the boy to step up to the task?

Our pack provides each scout with a handbook for the rank they are in. Is it too much to require that the boys bring it to each meeting/outing? I've been tracking things using a WebelosTrax spreadhseet but most of the boys don't bother bringing the book so not a lot has been signed off in the book. Thoughts?

Tigers are supposed to have an adult partner with them at all times. If he doesn't then mom needs to move over to be with him. Maybe just sit the two dens next to each other. Believe it or not little girls tease boys too, he might of reacted the only way he knew how to.

The boy needs some consequences applied for doing this. For his sake and the others in the Pack he has to be understand the response is because he was attempting bodily harm with weapon. If I was a member of that pack I would have worried first about the safety of my son. Hearing about the wrist slap given would of given me reason to call a Scout Executive. Liability aside this is assault with a weapon and a 5 th grader is way different than a Tiger. But these are boys that Scouting is made for. Now is the time to fix them. The boy with the knife: He should lose the knife for at least a year He should have been sent home immediately from the event. He would be required to apologize publicly at a pack meeting The Bullies also get consequences They should have been sent home immediately from the event. They should be required to apologize to the boy in a way that other learn that bullying is WRONG The kids are also told that and second offense for either boy means gone for good and ever. A suspension might be OK, but frankly they wont come back after it.

Our pack charges $55 a year in pack dues, plus $10 for Council and $12 for Boys Life (optional) The Webelos I den I lead charges $4 a month den dues. This covers supplies and other items. The pack pays for advancements and will usually provide one meal at a campout.

The BB Guns often used by cubs are not quite the same as pnuematic air rifle but are use a spring air mechanism to fire the BB. I'm referring to the Daisy Red Ryder and Buck models. Most other low cost models use the same mechanism. This limits the effective range of the BB. The guide to safe scouting also states that cubs cannot shoot air rifle, just bb guns with the spring air mechanism. Cubs cannot shoot any rifle that can fire a pellet either. The difference in power is noticiable. The BB guns used by cubs have an effective range that is much less than a Crossman 760 or 780 pump air rifle. The BB shot from a Daisy Buck will lose effectiveness at 35 to 45 ft or so and drop off. The same BB fired from a Crossman 760 pumped 6 times will pierce through 1/4 plywood at 40 feet. When I tried a pellet in the 760 it was able to go through the wood at 60 feet. Be aware though than even a buck or red ryder can still cause serious injury or possibly death if fired just the right way at close range. These are not toys, but are useful training tools for the boys to learn and have a better idea of what to expect when they move to .22's and shotguns at the Troop level.

The rules in the 2003 printing of the Shooting Sports for Cubs state: 1) Explain the rules for safe shooting you have learned to your leader. 2) Demonstrate to your leader good shooting techniques, shoulder shooting, eye dominance, breathing, sighting, trigger squeeze and follow through. 3) Practice shooting for the time allowed at district or council camp. Based on the latest rules they earned it. Having gone through rangemaster training to run shooting sports at CS Day Camps I'm familiar with the requirements and the work required. At a week long day camp it is possible to teach the items to fully earn the loop/pin but for a short session in one day its tough enough to get them to learn all the safety techniques. Usually at Day Camp they can shoot multiple times in the week and work towards the pin. The main goal of BSA shooting sports is the safety training about firearms and archery equipment. So long as the safety is understood that is 95% of challenge with young kids. Last week my son and I went to a Fun with Sun and there were 350 cubs there. There were only six 45-minute sessions to shoot and only 15 kids at a time could shoot. So most kids could only shoot 5 or 6 BB's and 4 arrows. Many of the younger kids needed help to cock the gun. However at Day Camp a den of 12 get one hour to shot at 8 stations so they can log plenty of time there and perfect the techniques to earn the pin. Also the equipment at many camps is well used and worn and most don't shoot straight anyway, so trying to teach aiming techniques is tough in 10 or 15 minutes. That said about the belt loop though is one thing, if the boy really wants to earn the pin that will be extra work. My son and I are lucky as we belong to a shooting club and can practice firearms and archery on our own. Unlike when I was growing up there are very few chances for a kid to shoot these days and that 40 minutes at the district might be all they get for a year.

The training is great and even if your an experienced camper you will learn a few things on camping with kids. The training covers equipment, youth protection, BSA policies, and other "how to" things. Typically there is a session on meal prep and dutch oven deserts. The class in our District inlcuded lessons on light-weight equipment and what is needed versus not needed. I was able to cut the amount of stuff I carry in half, even after adding a 12" dutch oven!

Family involvement is encouraged in our Council. BUT when your on staff you can't be watching your family. A non-scout attending the event is your responsibility and if your watching the event you can't split your time. Being a Day Camp Director I've seen this first hand. The choices would be to not be on staff and camp with the family OR be on staff and leave the non scout home.

Most packs have an outing every month but Webelos need to do some camping on there own. The Webelos Den Leader should go for a class called WOLT so he can take just the Den. The boys should then plan the campout for the most part. Things like the meals and what they want to accomplish. The parents of course control it but give the boys a chance to help as they will need the practice when they go to a troop. Before you go camping have a practice Den outing. Plan a hike for a couple of hours and see how the boys are. If the hike area has a campfire ring maybe plan some smores or whatever after the hike. The guidelines in the Webelos book seems to lean to one campout as a Den as a Webelos II. But more is better to give them the practice. Let them setup the tents and help with the fire building. Also get the other parents involved to help teach a badge or two on the campout. The boys prefer a structured outing to a free for all.

When my son was a Wolf (2003) my son and I went through something like this, every den meeting was just a craft and at campouts all that was organized was fishing and a water pistol fight. So I read the Wolf book to see what we could do and was amazed at the things. So to one den meeting I brought some rope to tie some knots and most of the boys had a blast. We also did a lot of things on our own as the DL would cancel a lot of den meetings. We wound up switching dens in the Bear year. This year, being a WDL I have some den activity for each meeting planned. Be it a campout, den meeting or pack picnic. The kids really want to learn knots, camping skills, compass and all the cool stuff schools don't teach anymore. They also want an orderly meeting. In the Webelos book there are 3 activity badges that are GREAT for the outdoors, Forester, Outdoorsman and Naturlist. So pick one of the badges and learn it (when your son isn't around) and then offer to do it at the next meeting or outing. Your kid will be amazed at what you know. The real thing to consider here is that Webelos is getting them ready for a Troop, which is boy run. The 21 months of Webelos should be teaching the boys how to get organized. With the lack of planning you mentioned those boys will have a hard time at a troop. Our den just finished learning how to put up a tent. The boys did it on there own, adults could not help, they were allowed to ask questions. They made a few mistakes, fixed them and got it done. I would've slept in the tent. Never mind the safety aspect also. Just running around in the woods can get them hurt. Tripping over tree roots, twisting ankles in gopher holes, getting stung by insects and so forth.

Talk to him a bit, one on one, maybe over coffee or something and find out the issues he has. Try to do it away from a scout meeting so everyone is relaxed. It could be he got stuck doing most everything and didn't get much help with the Den. Or maybe he didn't get the right training. Or maybe an aspect of being a leader, like the paperwork that got to him. Maybe he had to spend his own money. Its good to help him out as he needs to be a positive role model for his children and keep them in scouting. More kids quit scouting because the parents convince them to. A wise council exec once told me that ''we're not just recruiting a boy into a pack but a family into scouting''.

We use the upside down badge also. For the most part it works, the boy will do something good real quick. We give the badge to the parents with the parent pin and have them attach it to the pocket upside down. Technically we're adding another requirment so..........

The requirements are what they are and the biggest one to meet is the 6th months after 4th grade to get the AOL. My 2 Let the boys cross-over seperate when they are supposed to. The period of time that it will be an impact on the family is less than a year anyway. The things the boy will learn as a 5th grader are different than what he would get out of it as a 4th grader. Also, he has some bond with the Den he is in.

I would like to thank everyone for the input they provided. Its great to have a forum like this to ask questions as many of you have been here before. I would like to respond to a few of the comments to help identify how Cub Scouting in FL has some challenges. All the boys in the Den had earned Bear by December 2005. The boys have from 5 to 11 Bear Arrows as we worked on electives right after Bear. The pack then bridged 5/20/2006 But we weren't together as a Den until Webelos Day Camp which was 7/10 to 7/14. This Day Camp was just for Web I and II and was after Cub Day Camp was over. Webelos Day camp focused on the Citizen, Engineer, Scientist and part of Sportsman Badges. Along with loops and pins for Table Tennis, Flag Football, Ultimate and Marbles. Also, each kid got to earn the earn the Archery and BB gun loops/pins. Many never had the chance to earn those pins as Cubs. Its incredibly hot here in Central FL in the middle of July so we have to make sure that they don't get over exposed outside. Also the church where Day Camp is held does not have resources related to naturlist, outdoorsman or forester. We're doing the best we can with the resources. Our service project was to collect clothes for South America. The parents in the Den (all 10 of us) are not getting it done quick to have a race but because public school started 7/31/2006 this year in Seminole County FL. Once homework and sports kicks in there are limited chances to have den meetings. You read it correctly, school in the County the Den lives in started 7/31/2006, it is not that much fun. School ends in May, and our Blue/Gold is in Feb. But soccer and baseball leagues run for quite a period here. Also homework is quite a load here until the State mandated school testing is done. The entire den so far has earned the same badges at roughly the same rate. We work on requirements in the early months knowing that with holidays and other things we need to support. I have been very fourtunate this year to lead a Den that has boys in it since Tiger/Wolf and parents that provide active leadership to both the Den and Pack. The Den has also rotated the leadership so that no one gotten burnt out.

Although the Den Leader Knots are just for the person who is the DL for the year there are some other requirments to be met. But other leaders can also earn the Cub Scouter Knot by being a registered Scouter for 2 years and having a role in the Pack/Den. Here is a link that explains it: http://www.usscouts.org/awards/cubscouter.html

The 2nd requirment for the Webelos Badge is to 'Be an active member of your Webelos den for 3 months (Active means having good attendance, paying den dues, working on den projects)' I know that 3 months means but its when to start the clock. Our Den graduated from Bear to Webelos I on May 21. The entire Den attended Cub Scout Day Camp from July 10 to July 14. At Day Camp the Citizen and one other Badge was earned. The Den Leader was the Day Camp Director and all the parents helped at Day Camp at least one day each. The 1st Den meeting was August 13. Fitness was started then and finished August 25 There is some disagreement over the when to start the clock. July 10 and August 13 have both been suggested. So any thoughts as to the correct date to start counting the 90 days? There are two other Webelos requirments left to do but we expect to have them done October 15. Thanks for any suggestions to this confusing topic.

Thanks for all the suggestions! The trophy and suspenders are a great idea. The boys in question had from Tiger to Webelos II to do it so they have just a few left to do.