Eamonn

I'm not over weight. In fact I weigh the same now as I did when I was sixteen. I walk about five miles a day with my dogs. But I have a bad back. Having had several back surgeries I don't see or consider myself as being physically strong. Working with younger Scouts isn't a problem, but I'm sure that when it comes to older Scouts I'm having a hard time keeping up when kayaking and canoing. Just when I think that I'm about ready to be put out to pasture I remember who it was that introduced them to this stuff to start with. - Then I think I'm good for at least another 50 miles. Ea.

Engineer61 Your post reminds me of a story that my wife loves to tell. While living in London we had a small dog. Taking the dog for a walk everyday in the park not far from where we lived was the high point of the day for both dog and wife. One day an elderly man asked my wife it it would be OK if his dog could take our dog for a walk. His black and white sheep dog took the leash in his mouth and took our little pup for a walk. Mean while the old fellow found out that HWMBO was an American. He couldn't resist telling her that during WW II he didn't have a very high opinion of "Yanks" In his words they were: Over paid Over sexed And over here. It's a good job that HWMBO has a great sense of humor. If not the poor old fellow might have seen a few stars. Ea.

A friend of mine is a moderator on another Scout Forum and they go to great lengths to avoid the 3 G's God. Gays. Girls. This is to my thinking a mistake. There have been forum members who have really stirred the pot. Not so much due to the subject, but more because of the way they stated their case. There have been members who have gone out of their way to upset others. However for the most part the people who are members now are a group that I wouldn't mind sitting around and talking with face to face. We don't always see eye to eye. But that's OK and maybe even a good thing? Sometimes we or at least me! Are not always fair or kind. I remember some years back there was a female ASM who posted that she thought it was a good idea that the SPL at summer camp keep track and record when Scouts moved their bowels. I found this to be not only funny but also really silly. I posted as much. Still this lady was really serious and didn't see any of the humor. I was out of line but just couldn't get the idea of the SPL asking each Scout and thinking what he might end up saying. Ea.

I have witnessed people I know fall on hard times. The club I belong to has lost members who were down sized. People who thought and looked like they had the world by the tail. People who have had to dip into their retirement savings just to keep their head above water. Seeing and hearing of anyone falling on hard times is always sad. Because the membership of the club is down the club has had to let some of the staff who work there go. Waiters and cooks who were earning a little above minimum wage. These people were having a rough ride before things went south. They don't have the savings to dip into. I know these people and I can never see any of them stealing from a Pack. But were they to ask for financial aid? I think it goes without saying who would come first. - The laid off workers. Is this fair to the other group and their kids? Maybe not. Sad to say that's life. It still doesn't make taking something that is not your's right. Kids get caught up in what their parents do or fail to do all the time. If I hadn't paid my house payments, there is a good chance I might have lost my house. As my son lived there is it fair that he could have lost his home as well? I really don't see the bank saying "Oh you have a son, don't worry about the payment". It just doesn't work that way. Kids do carry the burden of the choices that their parents make. Ea.

"FUNDRAISING (hooray!)" Great answer. Still I can't help but think we covered that when I posted: "Look for ways to ensure that this never happens again. Either by have fund raising events or having parents maintain a set amount in their "Scout Account" at all times." Fund raising events are great and in some Packs for Some families are much needed. But when a parent doesn't turn in the amount raised, as with the parent who has stolen the $200.00 They do no good what so ever. Of course it is sad when a kid suffers because of what his parents do or don't do. But it's a fact of life that Cub Packs do not have an endless supply of cash to cover money that is stolen from them. Who pays for Scouting? When I was a CM we had about 70 Cub Scouts in the Pack. We offered the parents opportunities to raise money or if they for what ever reason didn't want to be involved with fund raising they could just pay out of their own funds. The cost back then ran about $120.00 a year for the program we offered, not including resident camp. We had a couple of families that needed a hand and we found ways of helping them. This is very different than a family just helping themselves and causing harm to everyone. No one ever wants to see a kid hurt or punished but when it comes to funding there isn't an endless supply of cash. Taking something that doesn't belong to you or that wasn't given to you is theft. As a values driven program we don't and never will reward theft. Ea.

We do not have anything that might be called a Silver Beaver Association. Some years back my Lady Wife (HWMBO) Was the Chairperson of our annual recognition dinner. I sent out a begging letter to everyone that had received the Silver Beaver, asking if they would like to donate and help pay for the awards for the next class of Beavers. We used to present three awards a year, it went up to four but is now back down to three. Every year now the letter I wrote arrives back on my doorstep with the info about that years recognition dinner, only the signature at the bottom changes. Like others have posted, I'm a little unsure what the goals of an association like this might be? There has been lately a discussion in this forum about recipients of the award. While no one said it, my feeling is that there are two different groups who receive the award. One group is the active uniformed type guys who serve in the Council working for the most part with and for the youth. The other group are the Suits who work behind the scenes sometimes accomplishing a big task. My thinking is that the active guys really have no need of an association they see and work with the guys that they know and have worked with over the years all the time. The other group just don't have the time. But I'm wrong a lot! So the best of luck. Ea.

Of course worse than the frivolous rules are the people who want to make a big deal, fuss and quote this unneeded twaddle. Little Lad gets mustard on his hot dog. He hates mustard and discards the hot-dog in the fire. - Not a big deal until some twit decides this is against something that someone decided needed to be in the Cub Scout Leader Handbook. Patrol has build a mighty fine and good pioneering tower that's eight foot high. Along comes the man with the book and the book says it is over the allowed height. I have yet to drop a Scout from five foot or a Scout from eight foot. I'm sure some of the more clever members of the forum can work out and tell me the difference in the impact of falling from either. Of course the height and weight of the Scout might have to be taken into account. With this in mind maybe the five foot rule is flawed? Maybe five foot is too much. It must be safer and better if before building a tower we weigh all the Scouts and measure how tall they are in order to arrive at a mean average. Any Lad that is deemed to be overly tall or obese would upset the calculations and he would be barred from tower building for life. He might want to go grab a hot-dog and not waste any of it. A great friend of mine was in the Royal Navy. For his sins he ended up on Ascension Island. He and a group of his pals were into ham radio. They built a aerial by lashing poles together. It went about 180 feet into the air. They were all very proud of what they had done until they received a letter from the Governor General of the island which read in part: "It is forbidden to have unsightly erections on Ascension Island." Of course I know this is a gray area -But I still think that it's funny. Eamonn.

"Yeah, punish the kid because the parents don't have any money." I don't think anyone is saying anything about punishing any child. As I posted. I'm not against helping a family that needs help. However Packs have to pay their way. If everyone refused to pay for services and goods that they have received, where would the money come from? Somewhere there is either $200.00 or a lot of popcorn that needs to be paid for or returned. If and when a parent cheats the Pack surely they are guilty of punishing not only their own child but all the children in the Pack. Ea.

As a rule which isn't always true?? The people who make the most noise about rules are the people who don't care and wouldn't keep a rule in the first place. Many of us have both values and common sense. We know that there is a line and are aware how close we get get near it without crossing it and causing pain, embarrassment or harm to anyone. I don't need a "Guideline" To let me know that Cub Scouts singing rugby songs around the campfire isn't a good idea. I know that there's a big difference between the adult allowing someone to push his face into a pie for a good cause and a food fight. I can take and share a joke and not lose the respect of anyone. Even if there are rules about hazing and I'm don't have them down chapter and verse? I have that little voice inside of me that tells me when something isn't nice or good. Ea.

Reading all this stuff about what can and what can't be done, what is and what isn't acceptable has got me shaking my head in disbelieve. At one time or another I now see that I've broken or gone against all these mighty fine regulations. I was around some years back when the list of what was and what wasn't allowable at Camp Fires raised its ugly head. Not long after the punch line and catch phrase for just about everything became: "That's a gray area!" You know if you want "That's a gray area can be used as a response for almost anything. Of course a lot of the time it doesn't make any sense. But you have to keep in mind that where it came from didn't make a lot of sense to start with. Ea.

After paying the $400.00 fee you don't have to worry much about your wallet being too heavy. Ea.

Wow! Ea.

"sweaty feet...TMI, Eamonn, TMI" Yes maybe? But FFF (Foot Fetish Free.) It's strange in the jail where I work being gay or being accused of being gay is not cool or whatever the word for cool is. I have yet to meet a white guy who admits to being gay. I have met a few black men who are openly gay. I have never met a black man in jail for being a Pedophile. Most of the child molesters seem to older married white guys. This of course doesn't proof anything! Just thought that I'd mention it. Ea.

Packs just can not and should not ever have to support parents. Send the person who owes for the popcorn a registered letter saying that you demand payment within thirty days or you will turn this into a collection agency and or the local magistrate. If someone stole $200.00 off me I'd be upset - So why would a pack be any different? At the next Pack meeting make an announcement asking that all unpaid items be paid for ASAP, Follow up with phone calls and letters. Look for ways to ensure that this never happens again. Either by have fund raising events or having parents maintain a set amount in their "Scout Account" at all times. Of course you have to trust people when they are selling stuff like the popcorn, but be sure to tell everyone when the cash is due and if someone is late don't dally around the longer you wait the harder it becomes to get the money. I'm very much for supporting families that need a helping hand, but this is not what we talking about here. Stealing from a Pack is just plain wrong. Ea.

There is a Chinese proverb that says: Respect the Gods and respect the devils -But keep them at a distance. One of the qualities I most admire about myself is that I'm a very lazy little fellow. Born and raised in an Irish R/C home I never took the time or was bothered to seek enlightenment elsewhere. For a little while while at college I did question my religion but it was hard work so I played it safe and started going to Mass again. I don't think that I'm gay. Again I really have never wanted to take the time to find out. I understand how two people of the same sex can have deep feelings for each other but the sex part? Still there again I don't understand people who claim to have a foot fetish. But that might be due to my having sweaty feet? I'm willing to bet that within the ranks of the BSA there are a fair number of homosexuals who for whatever reason have never come out and will never come out. But that's OK. OK with the BSA as it is avowed homosexuals that are unwelcome. So if the parents of young Cruz had not openly said that they were gay, maybe told a few lies? Everything would have been OK. Being raised in an Irish Roman Catholic home, attending R/C schools and church, you bet I know a little bit about sin. In Eamonn's little world, I can only be guilty of the sins that I commit. While there are some things that are illegal and against the law and me doing them might end up with me paying fines, serving time or even on death row! Sin is something that is mine. Something that is between me and my God. My religion has said that homosexuality is a sin. So far it looks like I'm in the clear on that one anyway. Come to think of it, I'm not that bad of a fellow. But that's no one else's business other than my own. I've always been too lazy to cheat on my wife or run around. We enjoy a good marriage and healthy sex life. That is also no one else's business. So why does the BSA think it has the right to rule what other people do, not just in their bedrooms? But also if it is a sin? It's not their sin. Eamonn.

Most of the time we set up a base camp and Scouts going hiking leave from there. At the base we set up Patrol cooking, but the Scouts going on the hike draw the equipment that they need depending on how many of them there are, how long they will be gone and what they are cooking. A lot depends on the size of the Troop and how many adults are available. With a large Troop and limited adult support taking the time for just a small number of Scouts just didn't seem fair. Of course if the Troop is small then this isn't a problem. Ea.

Why is it when I look at this thread that I can't help thinking about the thread that active not so long back on setting the example? Isn't "Zero Tolerance" Very much like some of us insisting that because something is written down someplace that we have to stick to it. With no exemptions? I'm thinking about the requirements for Den Leader Cub Scouting awards? We now return you to the talk about knives. Ea.

SR540Beaver Now your showing off! All our people get is the patch! Ea.

We don't have a forum song leader. As a rule I hang around and wait for OGE to burst into song and take the lead. I think it was the Kinks that sung: It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world. Or something like that! This Scouting gig is a strange one. Strange because it's all about people and people are sometimes strange, little people are no exception. Still the one big qualification that is needed to be successful in Scouting is that you need to get on well with people. If you can get along with little people their parents and other members of this organization you are 99% of the way to making it as a fine Scouter. It is also very important to be fearless. Never fear that you will make a mistake or mess up. Each and everyone of us has at one time ended up with egg on our face or done something that has landed us in water that wasn't cold. Never fear asking. As a rule most of the people in this organization are good people they want to help and while maybe they don't say it they like to talk some more than others. Take the time to read some of the important publications that are available and attend the training's. Even if you come away feeling that they were a waste of time, I'll bet that within a month of coming home something that was said or presented will turn out to be of some use. Don't Be A Wallflower when you attend something and there are Scouter's there walk up to them introduce yourself. They don't bite and most will want to find out more about you. This is all too often how long and lasting relationships are formed. From what you have posted, so far your Scouting career has not been traditional or by the book. In my view I give you extra credits for sticking with it. Sometimes in forums like this people can come of sounding a little less friendly than they really are, -Don't take it to heart. As for learning? I learn something from every person I've ever met, every book I've ever read and every day I wake up on the right side of the grass. Maybe working in a State Correctional facility might mean that the stuff that I'm learning from the inmates might land me in water that's even a lot hotter. Thanks for sticking it out and my thinking is that the next 30 or 40 years will go a lot smoother! Ea.

emb021 You are correct about the awards but all of these that you mention go into an endowment and some of the larger amounts do not have to be in cash. Someone could buy an life insurance policy, naming a Council as the beneficiary and qualify for the award. There are ways of taking a tax advantage by deferring donations of stocks and bonds and qualifying for these awards. As far as I'm aware there isn't any award that is available for a person who donates money or goods to a Council that doesn't go into endowment. As it is now someone could donate a very large amount toward FOS, where the funds don't go into endowment and there is no real BSA recognition. This happens a lot when Councils have a capital campaign and is sometimes the reason why buildings and the like are named after people. James E. West Awards are fine and dandy but ask any SE and I'll bet he'd rather have the $1,000 as a straight donation and not have it all tied up. Ea.

Can't help thinking that I'm missing something? DS - What do you want me to tell you? Seems to me that you know what and where the problems are. So the $64,000 question is what are you willing to do or not do? When faced with things like this I write down my options. Number one on my list is always the same: Do nothing! Most times doing nothing doesn't work because if it did then there is a good chance that there wouldn't be a problem to start with. Saying to heck with it and leaving is also an option. Take my word for it there have been times when I've really wanted to do this and tell some people where to go! Why haven't I done this? Mainly because of my own ego and I hate for "Them" To think that they got the better of me! I should add that it is a very big mistake to say that you will go if your not prepared to do so. Maybe if you take a long hard look at the list of things that are causing you to be upset, you will see that some are an easy fix. Asking the smokers not to smoke around the youth members shouldn't be that hard. Some things are just wrong and just are not acceptable. Let this be known and because they are so wrong there shouldn't be any debate. Maybe there are a couple of things on the list that can be put on the back burner until such a time as it makes more sense to take them on. Not trying to hijack the thread but... I worry when I see: "I am the Scoutmaster for this Troop who's primary goal is to revitalize this Troop that started in 1936." History is great but we don't serve the Troop history we serve the kids that are here today and if we do a good job the Troop will serve the kids that will come. Looking back is a big mistake. Failure to do what is needed will mean that all thats left is a history. Ea.

Welcome to the forums. I hate to say it but I can only echo what packsaddle posted. You can as a parent ensure that your son does have a wonderful scouting experience, by supporting him. If you want to become a BSA member? You might want to talk with the organization that charters the Troop /Pack? That your son has joined. See what they say and then maybe fill out an application which will be checked out by the company that does the checking for the BSA. After that? I'm not sure if they say no, I have heard of people meeting with the Council Scout Executive and being allowed to join, but most SE's are unwilling to take the risk. Good Luck. Ea.

Many if not not of us in this forum are parents of Scouts. All of us want what we think is best for our kid. I'm not sure what someone else's definition of a helicopter parent is. I think it has a lot to do with the way things are done. If you force your son to attend and be active in things that he doesn't want to do? If what he does is never good enough? If you Lord over everything he does and try to make sure that he is better than everyone else? Then in my book you might qualify as a helicopter parent. I have in this forum talked about how important it is for us to give our kids Roots and Wings. It is important that our son's learn the values that hold close and dear. In time they will look at these, some they will accept, some they will for a time rebel against. We can try to force these values but when dealing with teenagers this all too often backfires. It's far better that we give them the time and the space to work things out for themselves. This at time can be for us parents hard work and very frustrating. The great thing about Scouts and Scouting is that it's a safe place to learn life lessons and just as importantly a safe place to make mistakes and learn from them. It is also a safe place for parents who are involved to make mistakes and learn from them, just so long as they are willing to take the time to look at what they have done and what they are doing and be honest with themselves. As for looking at labels? I wouldn't waste my time. It his journey but it is also a journey for you. A great time to get to know and learn from that great kid that you have. Ea.

Districts just like any other Pack, Troop or Crew are only as good as the volunteers who are involved. Just like Packs, Troops and Crews, Districts work well when all the adults are team players and do their best to get along together. A big part of this is the selection of the right people for the right job. Sometimes it is a chore to fill the positions, sometimes positions are handed out because someone feels that the person has earned it, even when everyone knows that it's a square peg in a round hole. To my mind the harm caused to Districts by the lack of any real Commissioner Service is great. Commissioners were the eyes and ears of the District. Reports from U/C's got the ball moving that helped struggling units. When unit volunteers seen that the District guys were not just stuffed shirts with lots of knots and had the opportunity to work with the District guys relationships were formed, people got to know and trust each other and there was a network in place that down the road very often paid dividends. While of course it is the job of the District Committee to help the Council reach goals. Districts fail when they fail to see that all these goals are dependent on strong units who offer good programs. Program is what builds units and after that everything else falls into line. DE's are not and should never be the District Program guys. The District Key 3 play a very big part in the success or failure of a District. The District Commissioner needs to recruit and communicate well with the Commissioner Staff and be willing to step in when things don't seem to be going well. The District Chair. Should know the strengths of the people selected to be District leaders (Training, membership and so on.) He needs to ensure that these people are doing what they should be doing and not just warming a chair once a month. This means that open two way communication is very important. When it looks like the District is only working for the Council and seems to not care about the volunteers or the units the District will fail. A good DE does help, but most well established and well run Districts could work almost just as well without one. Districts will remain relevant so long as the people in the District care, same as with any Pack, Troop, or Crew. Eamonn.

Never heard of anyone asking for FOS reports when it comes to these awards. The Silver Beaver that was awarded to the business person in the Council I'm with was for his several donations of over $250,000. I wasn't on the selection committee that year. So I didn't get involved. Some people thought it was wrong, while others thought it was just the way things go. Still I think that the fact that he has never made or taken the time to be presented with the award speaks volumes. Maybe he just doesn't want the award and never did? Maybe the selection committee felt it was a nice thing that was kinda expected? I have never heard of a committee being formed to nominate candidates, normally all the volunteers are given the opportunity to nominate whoever they want. I agree that these awards are adult awards and really should not be awarded to youth members. Ea.