eagleSM

i've never seen a "Webmaster" patch, so i would stick to the program . with that said, we no longer use signal flags or wiffenpoofs , so perhaps one day this may be a viable office- just not today Den Chiefs are important, although i would not equate them equal to the level of an SPL. they are, however, a critical component to the future of a Troop. its unfortunate that your leaders feel this way. it is wrong. Eagle candidates do have the right to appeal such decisions. eSM

Troop 185, see the book "Kentucky's Land of the Arches" by R. Ruchhoft, published by Pucelle Press of Cincinnati, OH frankly, i'd be more concerned about stepping off the edge of a cliff than any local misfits (hence my comment about 1st Class and above). the book is very accurate in rating the ruggedness of over two hundred trails there. it also lists auto-tours, rock climbing, rappelling, and canoeing opportunities in the Gorge. hope that helps, eSM

although i have many, here's one: Swift Camp Creek Trail, Red River Gorge, Kentucky. part/near the D.Boone National Forest. a rugged backpacking trail, for First Class & above. once one gets to the bottom of the gorge, the Creek is full of stocked rainbow trout..... a wonderfull place. eSM

CBS's Pearl Island "Survivor" show SM Lillian Morris has made it to the Scouting Magazine issue for October 2004 (page 12). i would be interested in hearing other's opinions as to how Scouting was represented by her on the show. eSM

we bought 'em, just as soon as they came out. dang ,they are slow. Watch Out!, you can melt 'em with too much heat! dont let them burn dry! but know what? they make Great Camp Coffee! (goodbye to "GBTQMaster", we dont need no more stinkin' WB coffee) kidding aside, we have found these a great product for the Old Goat Patrol, if used right. eSM

Phillip, to answer your question, no, i would not find giving EVERYONE access to Advancement Reports via the 'Net beneficial. thats what we have a Troop Advancement Chair & their assistant(s) for . all of this information is documented at every Troop Meeting (or Outing) by these folks (via our Troop Computer(s)). part of getting these adults to "buy into" our program is their outstanding results by using/and being responsible for this data. this is a great way for parent(s) with limited outdoor skills (or maybe even those with) to contribute significantly to the program & success of their sons- by data entry, something that many adults are professionally familiar with. access to our software data is restricted to the adult leaders in charge (A. Chair & Ast., Scoutmaster) each Patrol is provided with a Patrol Book (hard paper documentation), with individual Scout History. if a Star Scout signs off a TFoot for an Advancement requirement, his wet-signature name & date being noted on the margins. this supports the boy-teaching-boy program , with the accountability of his name, not just a simple unknown data entry. the adults do data entry & documentation. of course, Troopmaster (or other such programs) arent cheap. but neither are tents, chuck boxes, dutch ovens, silver bulletts, etc.. but it is a resource that allows Scouts to set goals that can be easily documented & tracked (by both boys and adults) for their success . i would also agree with ASM59 that the portability of TM is another great asset to our advancement program. eSM BTW, i am not an empolyee of TM

OldGreyEagle, i totally agree with your statements.... for me , it was an OA Ordeal.... they thought is was funny; but i was left hospitalized. there is no such thing as hazing of the "good kind" eSM

this is only from my personal experience about using Troopmaster. for years we used the old "advancement wall charts" . then, one of our adult leaders went to a training session ( i believe it was the University of Scouting) on how to use Troopmaster. to make a long story short, the first year we used it effectively we saw our advancement increase by 200%. we use "instant recognition" in our advancement program, and this tool was an incredible resource. our Advancement Chair prints out weekly Advancement Progress Reports, which is a great tool for the SPL to use in our following meeting. being part of a large unit, he can specifically target advancement requirements on a weekly basis for scouts working toward the rank of First Class. Troopmaster does have some limitations, as well as problems. on the other hand, i (we) have had tremendous response from TM support team (the owner), who personally walks us thru any difficulties we have over the years. my advice to a new Troop: before buying your first tent, buy Troopmaster. while it is only my opinion, i cannot speak highly enough of the this software & its effect on our Program. eSM

SM Ron, dang, i gotta live with an ol-timer hen Owl, (she too, tells me that she rules the Roost)... but the only thing i can find in 'er pellets are a bunch of dog-gone Bob White bones... eSM

Beavers always sing first....

this practice goes back at least to the 1959 SM Handbook regarding Summer Camp, under "Special Campfires": to quote the Handbook: First Campfire Ashes from the previous year's lst campfire have been kept and are called forward, and the Scoutmaster says, "Scouts, you have now been in camp one day and have attended part of our first campfire. Earlier in the evening you listened to the traditions of our troop and the responsibilities of every Scout. Will you help us keep these traditions as good campers should?" Answer: "I will." Scoutmaster: "I hold in this vessel some of the ashes of last years's campfire. They stand for all that we enjoyed in our past . I now place some fo these ashes on the right shoulder of each one of you and pronounce you campers in good standing, entitled to the rights and obligations of our camp." i would imagine this practice starts well before this publication, & expect someone older and wiser to quote from such seems to me such modern-day versions of this are wonderfull traditions to continue

"you cant ride a mans back unless its bent" ML King "a ship is safest in its own port; but that isnt what ships are made for, is it?" Wisdom from a Sailor "...never, never, never, give up..." W Churchill "leadership is action, not position" Unknown "the more i study nature, the more i am amazed at the Creator" L Pasteur "pray not for lighter burdens, but for stronger backs" T Roosevelt "if there be any truer measure of a man than by what he does, it must be by what he gives" Robert South "even a fish wouldnt get into trouble if kept his mouth shut" Old Fishermans Proverb "it takes few words to tell the truth" Chief Joseph, Nez Perce "i ams what i ams" Popeye

my local training states that the use of "push-ups" as a form of *punishment* is hazing and/or harrassament. personally, i couldnt agree more. one should note however, that Tenderfoot Requirement 10a/b *requires* new Scouts to physically perform "push-ups". (IMHO, this is an entire different thread of its own). for me , i dislike the use of the word *punishment*. but as SM, i fully support the notion that a Scout should accept full accountability for his own inappropriate behavior. correcting those behaviors should be according to BSA & CO guidelines. eSM "it is easier to build boys than to repair men"

To All: have any of you started to use PLB's in your High Adventure Activities? if so, have you found cost effective units for your boys, to carry as individuals? being from the Old School, give me a map and compass any day. but yet, what is your opinion as to the modern-day use of such technology? IMHO, recent events in remote areas indicate that this type of technology could be a life-saver for our boys. looking forward to see other folks comments who like Venture off the beaten path... ESM

i would have to agree that Mr Bob White has it exactly right...

as another Scouter/Caver and member of the National Speleological Society, i'll add another note. G2SS policy on *wild caving* has already been stated. one should refer to "Cave Exploring by Scout and Explorer Groups", which is a policy statement prepared by the Youth Groups Liaison Committee of the NSS and approved by the BSA, for further information. if one is talking about camping in a *show cave*, which offers "wild trips", Scouts have been taking such tours for years. there is little risk to the cave or the youth themselves. if one is talking about camping in a *wild cave*, that is an entirely different issue. wild caves are full of delicate biota (many that are endangered species). a Troop of Scouts, slugging equipment thru a cave, is a real threat to the biota in this environment. Cavers themselves seldom sleep in caves, unless part of survey teams or long-term exploration teams. issues of food, personal sanitation, hypothermia, conservation, and "No Trace" issues make camping underground difficult at best. G2SS states caving should be kept to "simple novice activities". effectively camping underground while not damaging biota or the cave environment is not such an activity. while this is only my humble opinion, Scouts should camp in campgrounds, and go caving in caves. judging by your location, i would recommend that you contact the Louisville Grotto of the NSS for more information about taking Scouts caving in your area.

sm41, 1) the size of the trailer. buy the biggest you can afford. if your Troop is new, the trailer you need today will probably not be big enough for you five years down the road. trailers dont depreciate much (at least those kept in good shape), so you may get a little more bang for your buck by buying a slightly used one. just be carefull that the lights/brakes all work well if buying used. 2)brand of trailer. specifically, check the structure of the internal frame of any trailer you look at- this is where one will be attaching shelving. as with most anything else, you get what you pay for. 3)braking systems. trailers with electric brakes will require vehicle(s) fitted with such. 4) extra costs, of course plates and insurance. check on insurance; just because one has auto/homeowners insurance that may cover the trailer in case of accident, some/all do not cover contents. likewise, make sure where you store the trailer has insurance to cover contents as well, in case of fire, etc. remember, the Charter Org actually *owns* the trailer, so you'll need to start there for insurance questions (and for registering etc) & with their agents. 5) shelving and any decals will cost you extra. 6) get a trailer with both rear and side doors (if you can afford it). they are worth their weight in gold on rainy days 7) if you store LP in the trailer, make sure it has adequete ventilation and hopefully you'll have a 4-wheel drive to pull it (especially if its heavy). while not necessary, i cant tell you how many axle-buried,two-wheel drive vans and trucks i have passed on rainy, mud-covered Scout-Camp roads, that were waiting for the ranger to pull them out with his tractor. Good Luck in your search, & i hope this helps.

as another one of those 13-year old Eagle Scouts (and now as a veteran SM of 13-old Eagle Scouts), i would like to add the following. it is given as part of our Eagle Scout Charge, at all of our Eagle Scout Courts of Honor: "I charge you to give back to Scouting, all that has been given to you. For only when you return Scouting what you have taken , will the true meanning of being an Eagle Scout be manifested to you"

"The statement was made by a scout executive that if troop leaders signed a tour permit they are well aware of the requirements for safety. The statement was made by a scout executive that if troop leaders signed a tour permit they are well aware of the requirements for safety. Who ever reads a tour permit before signing it? Marlene, before comment, i wish to state that my and my troop's prayers are with Garrett and his family. i affix blame to no one. we werent there, and i judge no one. as one once said, "there but by the Grace of God go I." all of us, as Scouters, have been awakened to this tradegy as if it happend to each of us as individuals back to your comment: "The statement was made by a scout executive that if troop leaders signed a tour permit they are well aware of the requirements for safety. Who ever reads a tour permit before signing it?" answer: a trained and responsible Scoutmaster (or adult leader) if we take the boys swimming: use Safe Swim Defense. for canoeing: Safety Afloat. rappelling: Climb on Safely. etc.etc.etc. and always, the Buddy System. period. a few years ago, i heard the sad news that one of my former Scouts, now an adult, had lost his life in a car accident. he had been thrown from the vehicle, due to not wearing a seatbelt. the belt would have saved his life. i can remember scores of times, prior to leaving on a campout, & looking into his face inside of a vehicle, & asking "does everyone have their seatbelt on?". i guess the message didnt stick with him. that very question is on every BSA Tour Permit. over the years, i've annoyed many a parent/driver with the same question. but still i ask it. everytime. it is my job. Scouting has rules, and those rules protect the youth in our charge. rules that were formed before most of us were born. rules that each day, all of us as Scouters must obey, for the safety of the boys in our charge

Does anyone know the true origin of the displaying of the Scout Sign to require Silence from all? Can it be referenced to any Scouting documenation (such as an old SM or Youth handbook)? Is this practice unique to America, or is this practice used Worldwide?