eagleSM

"No take-backs." Childs Play, Madame. Good Bye!

Kudu, you are correct. i never intended my post to be quote, "helpful, friendly, kind, and cheerful." but i did intend it to be "brave". to speak the truth, as i see your comments. as i recall, the Lord of the Flies movie has half-naked-boys running around the campfire, as you state to: "lose their self-consciousness and the ceremony reaches a spontaneous fevered pitch like something out of "Lord of the Flies." i question as to the desire of the Founder that his wish for Scouting was to witness boys in such a state. my Charter would not endorse such a scene. sorry, hmmm, no apology here, Kudu. eagleSM

hmmm, yes, thats almost just what i am looking for. a "Lord of the Flies" Boy Scout Troop. or maybe not? while its just a gut feeling, i'm not quite certain that my CO Church or my boys' parents would be looking for this as well. as a Country at War, my unit has suffered enough losses as it is. good kids, who now are gone. we don't need to pretend. sorry, my unit will have to pass you up your "Last call" on this one. eagleSM

VinceC wrote: "I'm very frustrated with the situation. Is it time for a new CO? There is another local church that may be interested." yes, it is time. while i am certain that there will be those who disagree with me, i've been down this road before. you sound like a great leader, Vince, and you have done all that you can. it is time to move on. we switched CO's several years ago, because of reasons that almost mirror your experience. since then, we have had tremendous growth thru the support (both financial & hands on contact) of our CO. the Church is there for us on Scout Sunday, service projects, Eagle Scout Projects, specific needs, etc. i've always felt that good Unit/CO relationships is one of the most neglected subjects taught to Scouters-- but yet one of the most important. over the years, i have seen that good units have two things in common: a good primary leader, & a good CO. it is obvious Vince that you have 1 out of 2. thats my two cents worth. good luck! eagleSM

AnneinMpls, we use several different types of tents for different types of outings. but the basic is the 8x8 four person tent. its good for car camping; as well splitting up between two scouts for backpacking (weight concerns). two Scouts, plus gear, per tent, when car camping. locally, leaving personal equipment outside of a tent is an invitation to a racoon disaster. you stated that you dont have a lot of gear to stow, therefore you could easily sleep three to this tent. as others have stated, our youth members often choose three to a tent in the winter time. newly-crossed over Webelos also tend to choose three-to-a-tent. also, in BSA, Troop's don't "own" equipment, the Charter Organization does. eagleSM

We use both. The boys set up their tent line right in front the Camp provided tents (canvas A frames with wooden bases). Our Timberlines are used as the boy's primary sleeping quarters. The camp-provided A frames are used for storing equipment; backpacks, good clothes, dirty clothes, momentos, etc. They use the camp provided cots as tables for their merit badge paperwork. In our neck of the woods, bugs aren't as much a problem as are the four legged masked bandits. They have learned that despite the fact we all teach "no food in tents", that if they search enough "open" A-frame tents that they will find food. They can easily enter an A frame canvas tent at night; unlike a Timberline. As SM, I sleep much better at night knowing that somebody else's child has at least some protection from critters with canines who roam the night looking for peanut butter crackers... eagleSM

emb021 said: "There are specific requirements to meet to earn it. You don't just hand it out. Other recognitions that may be more appropriate is nominate the scoutmaster for a District Award of Merit &/or Silver Beaver. Its a mistake to assume those awards are ONLY for those at the district &/or council levels." you are correct that they just dont hand them out; not quite sure where one finds an error/debate here. my understanding from Prairie-Scouter was that he/she was wanting specific recoginition of former Scoutmasters. upon qualifying, the Scoutmasters Key is only for Scoutmasters. the District Award of Merit & the Silver Beaver award are not ONLY for Scoutmasters. other Scouters are eligible as well for these awards. but i digress. Prairie_Scouter, your former Scoutmaster(s) are also eligible for the National Presidents/NESA Scoutmaster Award of Merit (after 18 months and fullfilling the ONLY other requirements). eagleSM

i would have to concur with John-in-KC about the uniform police.... that being said, there is a way one can recognize a former Scoutmaster. its the Scoutmaster's (Scouters) Key Award (green & white knot), with the universal Boy Scout emblem pinned to it. when one sees this knot, one will know that this is a former Scoutmaster who had served at least three tours of duty as SM. eagleSM

since my original post nearly a year ago about this subject, it saddens me to think about the heartaches that may have been prevented since by using such electronic devices. like others, we teach our boys the buddy system, safe scouting, map & compass, wilderness survival, using whistles, sets of three, etc, etc,... something i am certain others have done as well. yet, we all still have to read about the tradgic stories. or worse yet, experience them. what a wonderful thing it would be to give an eleven year old a device, that when in trouble, all he had to do was, "push the button" certainly, such a Scout would not have learned all that we wish to teach him in the Program; but at least he would come safely home to his parents after a Boy Scout outing. eagleSM

well, let's see , Mr White: first of all, WHINE is Your word , not mine. i find your comments UnKind and DisCourteous to ps56K for expressing his opinion. since you have had over 5000 of your own opinions in a public forum, you should at least be Friendly enough to allow him/her his without such a comment. as for evidence, if your looking for Chapter & Verse, lets see.... first define it, per Webster: Main Entry: 1: evidence Pronunciation: 'e-v&-d&n(t)s, -v&-"den(t)s Function: noun 1 a : an outward sign : INDICATION b : something that furnishes proof : TESTIMONY; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter hmmm... someone must have whined/provided an outward sign/furnished proof/submitted to a tribunal that the Camping Merit Badge should still be Eagle Required..... ... and many of us would still like to know what rappelling/canoeing/etc has to do with it. eSM

i use velcro with my 30+ year old OA patch, to switch between my long sleeve and short sleeve shirt. Walmart (Heaven forbid, i shop there as a member of a Red State) sells them in the Craft Section. i'm sure some "Nazi" will slam me for it, but what the heck, its my patch & my velcro... eSM

when i earned my Camping MB patch it had a green border. i'm glad that enough people *whined* about it that today the boys earn it with a silver border my 2 cents worth, eSM

fotoscout, congrats,a week post your ceremony (sorry, i dont have time to get on line much). thoughts? its been over a decade since i got my beads.... and i'm still working my ticket. my beads grow heavier by the day. it pleases me that you had your ceremony with your boys present... ...isnt that what Scouting is all about? eSM

yes, one *may* have two CO's. my unit did it several years ago, because of internal politics. both CO's had there names listed on our Charter. is it easy? heck no. these means a flag with two names on it, and double sets of signatures to approve any *single* adult leader on their applications. in hindsight, i have no regrets as to how it worked out (we eventually dropped one of the CO's). but it sure did make things interesting for a year or two...... eSM

what a great story. you should be proud of your lad. this would make a great SM's minute. i admire your humbleness. go to the Scout office and submit an application. they'll help you with the paperwork. otherwise, send me a Personal Message with all of the details and i will submit an app on your son's behalf its stories like this that keep me motivated as a Scouter... eSM

hmmm.... interesting.... too bad that Green Bar Bill isnt still around....i'd be interested to hear what he did with his unit in the early 1970's when National changed BSA to Scouting USA and, among other things, dropped the Camping Merit Badge as a requirement for Eagle.... eSM

it is my understanding , as well, that Districts run Eagle BOR's on behalf of Council. SM & ASMs do not sit on BOR's. SM's do, however, "sit in on" Eagle BOR's. this is so that if there is any question that may be outside of the candidates knowledge, the SM is there to answer. as SM, other than introductions, i am not allowed to speak unless directly asked a question by the DAC or his/her rep. your District should publish some type of "Life to Eagle" guideline booklet. this should be all you need to quell any questions to an upset parent. otherwise, i agree, send to the DAC locally, our candidates invite members for their boards. this would include clergy, teachers, coaches, or other mentors (& of course, the District rep). i can remember my own BOR. i knew absolutely no one there (in a far distant place and time). i felt like i was the guest of honor at a Dean Martin roast. while its up to Districts, and not just another dumb old volunteer, i dont think its fair for a Scout to go thru his Scouting career looking at known faces at BOR's; and then, at the pinnacle of his career, having to face a room full of unknown individuals. if i were that concerned about the SM and my owns son Eagle, i would "click out" of the forums and contact my Unit/District Commissioner immediately. eSM

to my fellow Hoosier: you have my empathy; but i must add one more note: "My Eagle Scout Medal Is Worthless", "unless i give back to Scouting, all that i took from it, to become an Eagle Scout" eSM

acco40: wise words, whether one agrees or disagress with you and your D.Adv.Chair. suffice to say, and to quote the 1959 SM Handbook: "In back of every word and picture in this book lies the experience of thousands of men who have served as Scoutmasters during the past half century. It is our hope that the book will help you find deep satisfaction in your work as Scoutmaster as you bring significant experiences and values into the lives of boys" and to quote one of my favorite SM's, when i left my post as ASM to become SM: "There can only be one Scoutmaster" Good Scouting, eSM

great question, acco40. certainly, for the most part, what you will get will be humble opinions. here's mine: 1.OA . Nope. OA is a service org. 2.Loading popcorn. Hmmm. a little tougher, becasue he is doing it as an OA member. still, No. same as above. 3.Show & Sell - No. anything that puts $'s into a Scouts pocket is not a service project, IMHO. 4.Yes. a Scout is Reverent. anything a Scout does to serve God gets an A+ in my book. 5.Yes. same as above. as far as time frames, i give credit in 1/4 hour time increments. NWScouter suggest the Scouts get prior approval. i agree. no sense in a boy performing a task (specifically for rank advancement service hours) if the Scoutmaster isnt going to approve it (and of course, it is stated in the requirment). as for confirmation, as SM, i require all scouts to have written verification that such a service was performed. many times, i will help the scout write out the verification to be signed by others, prior to his service project. as to Uncleguinea's comment to subjectivity, i agree. its nice to see different opinions, minus the recent flames i have seen posted. as far as "credit twice" there are numerous examples of this happening (Swimming MB, First Aid MB, etc., requirments used toward First Class Rank). these are of course, only the opinion of one fat, old, grey-haired SM... eSM

Mr Bacpkr.: i would have to disagree: actually, Mr Backpacker, on Feb 8, 1910, Mr Boyce and a group of his fellow businessmen incorporated the "Boy Scouts of America". that made us a corporation. Today, we celebrate that as "Scout Sunday" in 1916 Congress protected the name "Boy Scouts of America" and our uniform, etc, under a Congressional "Charter" . that gave us the right to the name "Boy Scout(of America)", and our uniforms. eSM

just a note to this comment: " Second the BSA did not come to this country until 1912, so any lone scouts prior to that were not part of the BSA, just BP wannabes." this isnt factual. there were numerous "Boy Scout Troops" prior to the "incorporation" of the Boy Scouts of America by W. Boyce. i wouldnt disrespect them by calling them, "BP wannabes" many a Lad called himself a "Boy Scout" before such a corporation exisited. i personally would not exclude them as being "Boy Scouts" , despite the Seton vs. Beard vs. Boyce debate at the turn of the last century. one can look at old photos of the Lads and see their pride of wearing the "Boy Scout Uniform" eSM

EagleInKY: i apologize if my comment "stick to the program" offended you. there was no intent in my District, Eagle Scout BOR's/Eagle Chairs follow very closely to Chapter & Verse before approving Eagle Applications being sent to National. as SM, i've been beat over the head many a time about this. this is so that no Lad has to face being rejected by National because of his paperwork. this may create a whole new thread as to the proper sumbitting of Eagle Scout Applications. eSM

"I sat on an Eagle BOR a while back. It's a large troop, and there isn't the option for every scout to be an SPL or other major leadership position." i/we have a large Troop as well. yep, there can only be one SPL. but a Troop can have many a Troop Guide or Troop Instructor, to fulfill POR. "The Eagle candidate had served in some of the traditional support positions (Scribe, QM, etc.) for Star and Life. For Eagle, his POR listed was Webmaster. We asked him what he did for that position. He did not just set up the troop website. He had to find a hosting company for the website. He also set up a network of computers for the troop to use. And, on their High Adventure trip, he posted pictures and a diary on the website at every opportunity, so the families back home could keep up with hos things were going." i have sat on many an Eagle BOR as well. if a candidate came to me, as member of an Eagle BOR, with his POR as "Webmaster" , sorry, but i would vote against him. nowhere in any Scouting literature would one find the POR of Webmaster, regardless of his efforts. it just isnt there. "We were very impressed with what all this young man had done. He did not like to be the "leader in the spotlight". He preferred to be a "servant leader" instead. He probably did more as the "troop webmaster" than the some of the boys in traditional positions (librarian, historian, chap aide). " sounds to me like the lad should have been appointed "Troop Historian" (there is a patch/POR for that, for Eagle Requirment #4), as this is the job he performed. "If the Scoutmaster has approved it as a POR, we should at least give it fair consideration." if the Scoutmaster approved "Webmaster" as a POR, he is wrong. i would agree from your description that this lad performed good/outstanding service to his Troop. i do not discount his service. but it is not a POR, under BSA's guidelines. eSM

Bob White, while Star & Life scout candidates can perform "a Scoutmaster-assinged leadership project to help the Troop", (in lieu of POR) such a requirement does not exist for the Eagle candidate. and Eagle Scout candidate (that my word) must hold a POR . Den chiefs are included in that list. eSM